Speculation: The Quest to sign Lindholm: Part II

[aj8000]

If we're going to clear cap space, it'll be Fowler or Vats who goes along with Stoner, either in the same deal or in separate ones. It would counter intuitive to trade Lindholm with Stoner attached.

Then why has that not happened? if you believe that a deal between Lindholm and the Ducks is close, then why hasn't a deal been made and Lindholm playing for the Ducks?

Something is up and I do not think the Duck fans are going to like the outcome.

the ducks do not have a strong negotiating position here and risk upsetting Lindholm by letting him sit out because they cannot sign him because of the cap and this is assuming that the unknown internal cap is not an issue as well.

 

[Exit Dose]

Sorry.
I was corrected a few wks back by a ANA poster who said Tor ate 50% and did not ck his info.
Ouch that's a hefty #

They ate the Bonus before trading him. You probably mistook them talking about his salary for his cap hit.

 

[Vipers31]

Sorry.
I was corrected a few wks back by a ANA poster who said Tor ate 50% and did not ck his info.
Ouch that's a hefty #

They didn't retain, because that would have to include both salary and cap hit. They did, however, pay Bernier's signing bonus that was due on July 1st of $2M, so that his remaining salary is at $2.15M. The cap hit is all Anaheim's, though, which wouldn't have been the case with retention.

EDIT: Beaten to it.

 

[Vipers31]

Then why has that not happened? if you believe that a deal between Lindholm and the Ducks is close, then why hasn't a deal been made and Lindholm playing for the Ducks?

Something is up and I do not think the Duck fans are going to like the outcome.

Nobody in the business world cares too much about whether something is close - when the two sides haven't agreed to terms (and all the reports say that they're still apart), there's no reason to force the already forced issue any further.

We're also aware of your projections for how we're going to like things, but considering a) as a whole, the fanbase doesn't like a whole lot of anything these days and b) that projection comes from the mind that brought us "how do we know he hasn't requested a trade?", the worry over how we're going to like it is just going into the file right next to the trash bin.

 

[Smitty426]

They didn't retain, because that would have to include both salary and cap hit. They did, however, pay Bernier's signing bonus that was due on July 1st of $2M, so that his remaining salary is at $2.15M. The cap hit is all Anaheim's, though, which wouldn't have been the case with retention.

EDIT: Beaten to it.

They ate the Bonus before trading him. You probably mistook them talking about his salary for his cap hit.

What is going to happen in your opinion? You guys have this long road trip and not much to show so far. It must be crazy in that locker room. A few wins would def help then a move or two?

 

[dracom]

Then why has that not happened? if you believe that a deal between Lindholm and the Ducks is close, then why hasn't a deal been made and Lindholm playing for the Ducks?

Something is up and I do not think the Duck fans are going to like the outcome.

Why trade our best defensemen right now when there's still a divide in money between management and Lindholm? Why also trade the guy you just re-signed to a 4 year deal and made a big show out of it at a season tickets holders event? Murray has also said he wants to get Lindholm signed without giving up a core piece. Now if that's from getting relief from LTIR (Despres,Thompson) or making a trade with a high value prospect attached, I don't know.

Just because your guy wanted out, doesn't mean Lindholm wants out you know. Not all players act the same.

And thinking we trade Lindholm with a cap dump, worsening his value is just insane. There's no point in doing that, at all.

 

[Exit Dose]

What is going to happen in your opinion? You guys have this long road trip and not much to show so far. It must be crazy in that locker room. A few wins would def help then a move or two?

A move won't happen till they know what the number is between Lindholm and the Ducks. They sound like they're close, so it's not likely to be much of a wait from here.

 

[aj8000]

Nobody in the business world cares too much about whether something is close - when the two sides haven't agreed to terms (and all the reports say that they're still apart), there's no reason to force the already forced issue any further.

That is just hiding your head in the sand. If the Ducks had the cap space, Lindholm would be playing right now for the Ducks. they screwed up and are likely going to pay a heavy price for their mistake. Whether that is losing Lindholm in the end is to be seen

 

[Trolfoli]

I really think the Ducks should try and move Bieksa to the Kings. I'm 100% not trolling on this despite the user name.
-Kings season is over. The roster was borderline before the Quick issue. It's just done now. Yes, my fellow Kings fans I've thrown in the towel 3 games in.
-Bieksa will need to be bought out anyways after the year if the Ducks don't want to protect him in the expansion draft. With a 35+ contract that cap hit will still be around after the buyout.

It doesn't make sense for the Ducks to lose one of their good defensemen to keep Bieksa around just to buy him out. He'd probably waive his NMC to go to the Kings since it doesn't require him moving.

Just seems like it would be worth something to the Ducks to get out of the contract and possibly keep all 3 of Lindholm/Fowler/Vat this year and have 4M of dead cap space off the books next year. Keep in mind the Kings would be picking up 4M of dead cap for this year and next year.

 

[aj8000]

Just because your guy wanted out, doesn't mean Lindholm wants out you know. Not all players act the same.

And thinking we trade Lindholm with a cap dump, worsening his value is just insane. There's no point in doing that, at all.

I get it, you do not want to lose a core piece of your team; however, the fact they screwed up their cap management will cost them in the end.

BTW, I have not brought up "my guy" or said that Lindholm wanted out (however the longer he sits increases the chance he will) in this current conversation. So why did you feel the need to add that to your response?

 

[Vipers31]

What is going to happen in your opinion? You guys have this long road trip and not much to show so far. It must be crazy in that locker room. A few wins would def help then a move or two?

Moves are definitely going to happen, but it's best not to go with an asbolute expectation when it comes to the Ducks. Just enjoy/suffer the ride.

That is just hiding your head in the sand. If the Ducks had the cap space, Lindholm would be playing right now for the Ducks. they screwed up and are likely going to pay a heavy price for their mistake. Whether that is losing Lindholm in the end is to be seen

I was scoffing at your baseless conjecture earlier, but now that you added more of it, you're on the verge of convincing me.

 

[aj8000]

Keep in mind the Kings would be picking up 4M of dead cap for this year and next year.

And why would they want to do that to help another team? Cap space is a very hot commodity.

 

[aj8000]

I was scoffing at your baseless conjecture earlier, but now that you added more of it, you're on the verge of convincing me.

I am not trying to convince anyone. Personally, I do not expect any of the Duck fans to believe or agree with anything I say. I am taking an educated guess based on the few facts we know at the moment and if you want to call it baseless conjecture so be it.

We do not have to wait much longer to see which one (or none) of us is right.

 

[AINEC*]

Has your source called anything else?

His source told me to invest in Enron back in 2000

 

[Vipers31]

I am taking an educated guess based on the few facts we know at the moment and if you want to call it baseless conjecture so be it.

That's a very liberal interpretation of the term.

I'm calling some of it baseless conjecture because it is. When literally every report is saying that the two sides are apart, and you counter by saying that "if the Ducks had cap space, he would be playing", "baseless conjecture" is actually too friendly a term.

We do not have to wait much longer to see which one (or none) of us is right.

I haven't said too much about what will happen, so I'm not living in much of a risk of being proven wrong.

 

[Trolfoli]

And why would they want to do that to help another team? Cap space is a very hot commodity.

Obviously the Ducks would have to make it worth the Kings time. Also the cap hit isn't that big of a deal because I believe the Kings are going into a re-tool mode for the next season or 2. 2 for sure if they pick up Bieksa. Just curious as to what Ducks fans think a fair price would be for taking that contract.

 

[aj8000]

I'm calling some of it baseless conjecture because it is. When literally every report is saying that the two sides are apart, and you counter by saying that "if the Ducks had cap space, he would be playing", "baseless conjecture" is actually too friendly a term.

Do you really think that if the Ducks had 6 million of cap space he would not be playing. The reason they are far apart on the contract is that the ducks cannot offer a contract that Lindholm can sign since they cannot sign it without clearing cap space first.

They are not getting any teams to take cap space off them so they are in limbo. They risk pissing off Lindholm by making him sit but cannot sign him without clearing cap. The Ducks are in a very difficult situation and it will cost them to get out of it.

I haven't said too much about what will happen, so I'm not living in much of a risk of being proven wrong.

I am referring to your assertion that my speculation is useless conjecture.

 

[aj8000]

Obviously the Ducks would have to make it worth the Kings time. Also the cap hit isn't that big of a deal because I believe the Kings are going into a re-tool mode for the next season or 2. 2 for sure if they pick up Bieksa. Just curious as to what Ducks fans think a fair price would be for taking that contract.

Sure, what do you thing the Kings would want for that? It would not be cheap. You cannot underestimate the cost of cap space especially when the cap is not rising that fast at the moment thanks in part to the lower Canadian Dollar. The American Hockey fans would do themselves a favor buying Canadian Dollars to drive it its value compared to the Greenback

 

[Trolfoli]

Sure, what do you thing the Kings would want for that? It would not be cheap

Rather then throw out what my ask would be and probably offend people, I wanted to see what other people thought of the idea, to see if what I'm thinking it would take would be anywhere in the ballpark. Keep in mind it allows them to keep 3 of Lindholm/Fowler/Vat, and clear 4M off the books next year.

 

[Fogelhund]

To sign Lindholm at something between 5-6 million, aren't they going to have to move two bodies, and not bring in more than 1-2 million in salary?

If you move Fowler and Stoner, it clears $7.25, you have $366, so you could bring back $1.616 at the most.

You end up being stuck trading Fowler and Stoner for Hunwick from the Leafs for example. Realistically, the deals you are going to have to accept aren't going to be good at this stage, at least in terms of adding roster players.

Other options...

Stoner and either Rakell/Silfverberg, for less than approx $1.5 back in roster players.

or

trade Lindholm for prospects/picks.

-----------------------------

Lindholm for Toronto's first round 2017(not protected), nothing else added.

If Winnipeg would do Gardiner + prospect for Trouba, assuming Trouba would be ok with the trade, and approx $5 deal.

 

[dracom]

Do you really think that if the Ducks had 6 million of cap space he would not be playing. The reason they are far apart on the contract is that the ducks cannot offer a contract that Lindholm can sign since they cannot sign it without clearing cap space first.

They are not getting any teams to take cap space off them so they are in limbo. They risk pissing off Lindholm by making him sit but cannot sign him without clearing cap. The Ducks are in a very difficult situation and it will cost them to get out of it.

You're really not paying attention to the facts are you? The Ducks and Lindholm are still apart in terms of money. So that means there's no deal to be made yet. Since there's no deal to be made yet, Ducks aren't going to trade Fowler/Vats to clear space; since that will just give Lindholm's camp more leverage to ask for more. Until both sides have come to a agreement (remember they haven't yet), Lindholm isn't getting signed and a defensemen isn't getting traded.

You don't know if teams aren't taking cap space from us, that's just baseless conjucture. Murray has already stated he wants to get Lindholm signed without trading. So that means he's not actively looking at making a trade right now. Murray has been pretty reluctant in trading high valued pieces for cap dumps, so it's not crazy to wonder why we haven't dumped Stoner with a good prospect yet.

 

[nyr__1994]

You're really not paying attention to the facts are you? The Ducks and Lindholm are still apart in terms of money. So that means there's no deal to be made yet. Since there's no deal to be made yet, Ducks aren't going to trade Fowler/Vats to clear space; since that will just give Lindholm's camp more leverage to ask for more. Until both sides have come to a agreement (remember they haven't yet), Lindholm isn't getting signed and a defensemen isn't getting traded.

You don't know if teams aren't taking cap space from us, that's just baseless conjucture. Murray has already stated he wants to get Lindholm signed without trading. So that means he's not actively looking at making a trade right now. Murray has been pretty reluctant in trading high valued pieces for cap dumps, so it's not crazy to wonder why we haven't dumped Stoner with a good prospect yet.

Please explain to all of how a team that currently has less than $400k in cap space can fit a contract of somewhere between 5 and 6 million under the cap without a trade?

 

[Vipers31]

Do you really think that if the Ducks had 6 million of cap space he would not be playing.The reason they are far apart on the contract is that the ducks cannot offer a contract that Lindholm can sign since they cannot sign it without clearing cap space first.

And that exactly is that baseless conjecture. There is reports on them being apart. That's exclusively what's being reported. There's nothing stopping any McKenzie or Friedman to write that they have come to terms, but have to wait for the Ducks to make room. If they felt that was the case, they would run that. They don't. You going with an entirely unfounded different version of reality is your preference, but it deserves to be acknowledged as baseless conjecture.

 

[Trolfoli]

It doesn't make sense to make a trade to clear cap space if you don't know how much cap space you need. Got to come to an agreement with Lindholm before you know what has to be done.

 

[dracom]

Please explain to all of how a team that currently has less than $400k in cap space can fit a contract of somewhere between 5 and 6 million under the cap without a trade?

Basically comes down to sending Thompson and Despres to LTIR for most of the season if their injuries keep them there, then sending down a few different cheap contracts to the AHL(Boll,Soresen, Larsson,Stoner). It's really the only way I can see Murray signing Lindholm without having to make a trade.