Post-Game Talk: The Powerhouse at Arizona | 01/06/19 - 4PM - MSG

[ReggieDunlop68]

AV wasn't the problem. The mindset of NA hockey coaching is the problem.

Except when it works everywhere else.

 

[Synergy27]

When I see kids like Howden, Andersson, Chytil, etc. I see kids who are in that 50-60 point upside area.

I view them the same way, and that's why I don't want them picking 10th again this year. Well, I do want them picking tenth, but I want that pick to come after they picked first, then I want them to pick again in the 20s.

I want the best player in the league, or at least someone who is realistically in the conversation, to be a Ranger. That's a lot to ask for, I know, but I've been waiting for it for a long time and everyone else seems to have had their chance.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Patience people, patience. Remember Phase One in Year One.

You might as well bang your head against the wall than talk to this crowd about that.

 

[Edge]

I view them the same way, and that's why I don't want them picking 10th again this year. Well, I do want them picking tenth, but I want that pick to come after they picked first, then I want them to pick again in the 20s.

I want the best player in the league, or at least someone who is realistically in the conversation, to be a Ranger. That's a lot to ask for, I know, but I've been waiting for it for a long time and everyone else seems to have had their chance.

I'll go back to what I said almost a year ago --- I think they've got the makings of what could be a very good, core group of players. But I think 2018 and 2019 are about trying to find the guys who could be elite or cornerstone players. Frankly, it has to be about that.

But it also speaks to how much of an impact a top pick can be, especially when you start talking first or second overall.

I'll use an example:

Let's say you're the Rangers and the heavens finally smile down on you --- you take Hughes first overall.

Think about how that changes literally everything in the franchise.

At some point, you could be looking at Hughes as your first line center, with Zibanejad as your second line center.

Now you get to the point where you have some options. In theory, one of Howden, Andersson or Chytil could be your third line center --- and two other guys could make very good wings. Or you can potentially move one to get help elsewhere. In theory, you also still have Kreider on the wings, and Kravtsov coming up through the ranks.

Hughes changes the entire conversation.

Buchnevich can theoretically be looked at as a second line scoring threat, rather than a first. There's not this pressure on Andersson and Chytil to have to be the primary offensive threats. Suddenly, the questions about Zibanejad shift from whether he is a true first line center, to how close to the top he ranks among second line centers. Same with Howden on the third line. Suddenly, it's not as pressing if Andersson and Chytil play center, and there's a certain ease with accepting certain guys as the support players they truly are.

It becomes easier to justify a free agent signing or a trade. You deal from a position of strength and you can spend for the defenseman you want.

When we talk about finding elite players, it's not just how it impacts the game when they're on the ice. It's how having them impacts the composition of an entire organization --- especially if you're capable of attracted and signing free agents, and identifying talent outside the top picks of the first round.

And all that doesn't even take into account the addition picks in 2019, or the other prospects we aren't talking about --- Keane, Hajak, Lindgren, Rykov, Barron, etc.

Especially for the forwards, there's no longer this pressure that THEY have to be the elite one.

Not that the work stops there, it would be all too easy to go off the rails under this scenario. But man does it change the tool box you have to work with.

 

[Inferno]

Lost 7 to 2
Lost 6 to 1
Lost 5 to 0

Next game lose 4 to -1?

 

[Profet]

Lost 7 to 2
Lost 6 to 1
Lost 5 to 0

Next game lose 4 to -1?

So 4 against from the opposition + Smith or McQ scoring on us?

 

[Good Intentions]

Lost 7 to 2
Lost 6 to 1
Lost 5 to 0

Next game lose 4 to -1?

4 to -1, OTL.

 

[Machinehead]

We are just naming players Chytil isn't better than. The fact that other players are better now is not proof that Chytil won't become a great player.

Right now, ranger fans are looking for every excuse to sulk. They don't appreciate that the team didn't play an unimportant game from October 2005 until March 2018. They are distraught that a 2017 20th pick isn't carrying the team.

If this organization was actually trying to win right now, you would have a reason to be depressed. They are walking the correct path. How are you guys not excited for basically an unprecedented path?

That's a rhetorical question. Don't blow up my alerts with "because rongos" posts.

Well, question asked, question answered.

 

[bobbop]

The ONLY good thing to come out of the game today was at the end of the game, Chris Kreider gave Henrik (my grandson) his stick. Pretty excited little boy right now. (Pop too!)

 

[Machinehead]

The ONLY good thing to come out of the game today was at the end of the game, Chris Kreider gave Henrik (my grandson) his stick. Pretty excited little boy right now. (Pop too!)

Kreider is a good boy. Feel bad for him.

 

[Gresch04]

We are just naming players Chytil isn't better than. The fact that other players are better now is not proof that Chytil won't become a great player.

Right now, ranger fans are looking for every excuse to sulk. They don't appreciate that the team didn't play an unimportant game from October 2005 until March 2018. They are distraught that a 2017 20th pick isn't carrying the team.

If this organization was actually trying to win right now, you would have a reason to be depressed. They are walking the correct path. How are you guys not excited for basically an unprecedented path?

That's a rhetorical question. Don't blow up my alerts with "because rongos" posts.

I don't appreciate playing important games for 13 years. The only measure is winning championships. The Mets have played many important games and crushed my soul too. Close but no cigar means nothing.

If the history of hockey were condensed into one 24 hour day, being a Ranger fan has been fun for about 11.5 seconds.

 

[Gresch04]

Lost 7 to 2
Lost 6 to 1
Lost 5 to 0

Next game lose 4 to -1?

I think I had this question on the SAT.

 

[Tob]

It's only been a few hours since we were embarrassed but it feels like it's been two days already I'm already beginning to phase out.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I'll go back to what I said almost a year ago --- I think they've got the makings of what could be a very good, core group of players. But I think 2018 and 2019 are about trying to find the guys who could be elite or cornerstone players. Frankly, it has to be about that.

But it also speaks to how much of an impact a top pick can be, especially when you start talking first or second overall.

I'll use an example:

Let's say you're the Rangers and the heavens finally smile down on you --- you take Hughes first overall.

Think about how that changes literally everything in the franchise.

At some point, you could be looking at Hughes as your first line center, with Zibanejad as your second line center.

Now you get to the point where you have some options. In theory, one of Howden, Andersson or Chytil could be your third line center --- and two other guys could make very good wings. Or you can potentially move one to get help elsewhere. In theory, you also still have Kreider on the wings, and Kravtsov coming up through the ranks.

Hughes changes the entire conversation.

Buchnevich can theoretically be looked at as a second line scoring threat, rather than a first. There's not this pressure on Andersson and Chytil to have to be the primary offensive threats. Suddenly, the questions about Zibanejad shift from whether he is a true first line center, to how close to the top he ranks among second line centers. Same with Howden on the third line. Suddenly, it's not as pressing if Andersson and Chytil play center, and there's a certain ease with accepting certain guys as the support players they truly are.

It becomes easier to justify a free agent signing or a trade. You deal from a position of strength and you can spend for the defenseman you want.

When we talk about finding elite players, it's not just how it impacts the game when they're on the ice. It's how having them impacts the composition of an entire organization --- especially if you're capable of attracted and signing free agents, and identifying talent outside the top picks of the first round.

And all that doesn't even take into account the addition picks in 2019, or the other prospects we aren't talking about --- Keane, Hajak, Lindgren, Rykov, Barron, etc.

Especially for the forwards, there's no longer this pressure that THEY have to be the elite one.

Not that the work stops there, it would be all too easy to go off the rails under this scenario. But man does it change the tool box you have to work with.

I think your “ core group” is still based on projections and hope and Quite frankly I’m not sure this core group is as good as you think.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I was happy with the last number of years or so, I thought when we acquired Yandle we should have been rebuilding then instead but before that I was happy with the effort from the organization. The Stanley cup is the hardest trophy to win, we had 3 legitimate cracks at it and our best chance vs L.A. was basically taken away by injuries to our defense, no excuses that's what makes it the hardest cup to win. I dont blame the organization for their attempts, they did all they could but they failed to recognize when it was time to transition because the GM was on his farewell tour and wanted one more cup. Gorton inherited a mess, imo he is doing a fine job so far, this year is critical for the franchise, hopefully we can get Hughes,that will define this rebuild. A little patience will yield another competitive team.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I believe the tank is now in full operational mode.

At this point I begin to wonder about the psyche of the kids.

It’s gonna get worse folks and it’s only jan.

When the house cleaning starts this team may well be bottom 3 and then the Work begins.

Fully expect us to go off board with a high pick and then of course grab a goalie.

At that point this place becomes mostly zombies and guys who want to talk about Dylan mcilrath.

 

[Edge]

I think your “ core group” is still based on projections and hope and Quite frankly I’m not sure this core group is as good as you think.

And that's hockey.

There is no core group in the sport today that didn't start off as hope and projections. Not a single one.

And we don't know if the core group is as good as I or we think it is.

But I do know one thing, what we had wasn't going to get it done. That much was obvious then, and continues to be obvious now.

 

[Synergy27]

Hughes changes the entire conversation.

I hesitate to distill your thoughtful and will reasoned post down to one sentence, but this says it all.

There are certain drafts where everyone knows that the top pick is something very special. This year is one of them. It's why I'm so frustrated with the people who would prefer to be a bubble team and maintain a "winning culture" instead of doing what is necessary to be in the best position to get that player come June.

 

[bobbop]

I was happy with the last number of years or so, I thought when we acquired Yandle we should have been rebuilding then instead but before that I was happy with the effort from the organization. The Stanley cup is the hardest trophy to win, we had 3 legitimate cracks at it and our best chance vs L.A. was basically taken away by injuries to our defense, no excuses that's what makes it the hardest cup to win. I dont blame the organization for their attempts, they did all they could but they failed to recognize when it was time to transition because the GM was on his farewell tour and wanted one more cup. Gorton inherited a mess, imo he is doing a fine job so far, this year is critical for the franchise, hopefully we can get Hughes,that will define this rebuild. A little patience will yield another competitive team.

Gorton wasn't that far away from Sather when the team was going all out to win The Cup and Sather isn't all that far away from Gorton now. I look at it as being a relatively seamless transition. It took a brass set to write that letter last year. I've been in a few situations like that and walking into your boss and laying out your proposed plan of action is never easy. (I once had to write a letter to investors that our company was going to miss financial expectations and then watched as the stock price dropped like a rock the next day) I appreciate the fact that Dolan lets the hockey people run the hockey side.

And for those who want a Stanley Cup or nothing else, please prepare yourself for a miserable existence. Only one team wins each year. I've seen some great Ranger teams, attended some great game and had many great thrills. The best Ranger teams I ever saw didn't win The Cup. Only once in 66 years -- better to just enjoy the journey.

 

[Edge]

I hesitate to distill your thoughtful and will reasoned post down to one sentence, but this says it all.

There are certain drafts where everyone knows that the top pick is something very special. This year is one of them. It's why I'm so frustrated with the people who would prefer to be a bubble team and maintain a "winning culture" instead of doing what is necessary to be in the best position to get that player come June.

I see very intriguing options throughout this year's top 10 or so, especially in the top 5.

Obviously, for me, none of them are better than Hughes. But there's a number of potential homeruns in that group.

So while Hughes would be the obvious game-changer, it's not inherently Hughes or bust. So when people talk about having all our hopes pinned on a wacky lottery system, that's not entirely accurate.

Yes, Hughes would be a no-brainer. Of course I want him.

But there are a lot of other excellent prospects at the top of that draft. This is the kind of draft where even if you don't pick first, you have a chance to get a Scheifele, or a Monahan, or a Barkov level player.

 

[Machinehead]

I'll go back to what I said almost a year ago --- I think they've got the makings of what could be a very good, core group of players. But I think 2018 and 2019 are about trying to find the guys who could be elite or cornerstone players. Frankly, it has to be about that.

But it also speaks to how much of an impact a top pick can be, especially when you start talking first or second overall.

I'll use an example:

Let's say you're the Rangers and the heavens finally smile down on you --- you take Hughes first overall.

Think about how that changes literally everything in the franchise.

At some point, you could be looking at Hughes as your first line center, with Zibanejad as your second line center.

Now you get to the point where you have some options. In theory, one of Howden, Andersson or Chytil could be your third line center --- and two other guys could make very good wings. Or you can potentially move one to get help elsewhere. In theory, you also still have Kreider on the wings, and Kravtsov coming up through the ranks.

Hughes changes the entire conversation.

Buchnevich can theoretically be looked at as a second line scoring threat, rather than a first. There's not this pressure on Andersson and Chytil to have to be the primary offensive threats. Suddenly, the questions about Zibanejad shift from whether he is a true first line center, to how close to the top he ranks among second line centers. Same with Howden on the third line. Suddenly, it's not as pressing if Andersson and Chytil play center, and there's a certain ease with accepting certain guys as the support players they truly are.

It becomes easier to justify a free agent signing or a trade. You deal from a position of strength and you can spend for the defenseman you want.

When we talk about finding elite players, it's not just how it impacts the game when they're on the ice. It's how having them impacts the composition of an entire organization --- especially if you're capable of attracted and signing free agents, and identifying talent outside the top picks of the first round.

And all that doesn't even take into account the addition picks in 2019, or the other prospects we aren't talking about --- Keane, Hajak, Lindgren, Rykov, Barron, etc.

Especially for the forwards, there's no longer this pressure that THEY have to be the elite one.

Not that the work stops there, it would be all too easy to go off the rails under this scenario. But man does it change the tool box you have to work with.

That's provided Hughes is that level of player. For me, something about him is just unconvincing.

 

[Inferno]

I'm curious how many ppl are now pissed off about us drafting kravtsov.

If you're not...please STFU about this... we'll draft a turd crap ppl keep saying....it's getting old

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

That's provided Hughes is that level of player. For me, something about him is just unconvincing.

like what?

I've seen this from a few people (not just you) and have yet to hear a legitimate criticism. Its almost as if we're sandbagging the kid because he might end up here.

 

[Machinehead]

Gorton wasn't that far away from Sather when the team was going all out to win The Cup and Sather isn't all that far away from Gorton now. I look at it as being a relatively seamless transition. It took a brass set to write that letter last year. I've been in a few situations like that and walking into your boss and laying out your proposed plan of action is never easy. (I once had to write a letter to investors that our company was going to miss financial expectations and then watched as the stock price dropped like a rock the next day) I appreciate the fact that Dolan lets the hockey people run the hockey side.

And for those who want a Stanley Cup or nothing else, please prepare yourself for a miserable existence. Only one team wins each year. I've seen some great Ranger teams, attended some great game and had many great thrills. The best Ranger teams I ever saw didn't win The Cup. Only once in 66 years -- better to just enjoy the journey.

It doesn't have to be Cup or bust if we're putting together a representative effort.

For me, that includes some offensive talent I can really hang my hat on. I'm sick of being unimpressive.

 

[Inferno]

That's provided Hughes is that level of player. For me, something about him is just unconvincing.

Like...what exactly? He's an absolutely ridiculous skater in a league where skating is at a premium...and he'd step right into the nhl and be a top 10 passer on his first day. His vision is sickeningly good.


I'm not sold on his shot just yet...but man...the kid is incredible to watch. Honestly I'm not seeing k.k. being in the same discussion as him..I see a big gulf between the 2. Sure k.k. is bigger, stronger maybe a bit more well rounded (Hughes is meh defensively) but skating and vision...he's already a 10/10 imho.