OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: They Killed Kenny!

[UnrealMachine]

I get anyone’s criticisms about Pickett. I just don’t see how people can be confident enough to write him off completely under THIS offensive scheme. The other teams can flat out predict 85% of the plays we run. Even those “enhancement talent” teams with the worst assemblages of players historically don’t struggle to get their first 1st down 20+ minutes into a game. It’s like a reverse spy gate saga.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I get anyone’s criticisms about Pickett. I just don’t see how people can be confident enough to write him off completely under THIS offensive scheme. The other teams can flat out predict 85% of the plays we run. Even those “enhancement talent” teams with the worst assemblages of players historically don’t struggle to get their first 1st down 20+ minutes into a game. It’s like a reverse spy gate saga.

Yeah exactly. Pickett was never projected to be good enough to be able to carry a team offensively, and that’s basically what is being asked of him with this mess of a team.

Comparing the Steelers in 2004 when Ben broke into the league to the Steelers in 2022 when Pickett broke into the league is a complete night and day difference. The Steelers were 28th in passing yards in 2004 but still went 15-1 due to their monster running game (2nd in yards) and defense (1st in yards allowed) and their great coaches.

The Steelers under Pickett are similarly ranked in passing (24th last year and 25th this year), but both their rushing game (28th this year and 16th last year in yards) and defense (30th this year and 13th last year in yards against) are wildly worse.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Source: Bears fire RB coach over behavior issue

The Bears announced the firing of RB coach David Walker, who was dismissed, according to a source, because of workplace conduct.

www.espn.com

 

[JTG]

Howell's stats would say otherwise. Howell has had games with 249, 290, 299, 388, 397 yards in 8 games this season. Howell has thrown 2+ TDs in 4 of the games (including a 3TD and 4TD game, Kenny has one game in 20 starts where he has thrown more than one TD, that was 2TDs.

Howell also has a 2x Super Bowl winning OC. Bieniemy is who they should be going after. That's the right play, IMO. He's waiting for the right coaching spot and we need a revamp.

 

[Josey Wales]

Pittsburgh Steelers



@steelers
·
10m


We have activated DT Cam Heyward from the Reserve/Injured List to the active roster.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Hurts only started 19 games so outside of maybe a few rushing opportunities in other games, it’s a pretty close comp. He definitely had the coaching advantage year two though. Tua started 21 it looks like and I would argue that touchdowns are kind of important. Really the best way to do any comp would be a per pass attempt.

And Tua still had Flores as his coach year 2, who was in a power struggle with ownership and also threw Tua under the bus any chance he got because he didn’t want him as his QB. Tua was in an awful situation his first couple of years.

Like I said before, I’m down with giving Pickett a year 3. I can’t say I’m as optimistic about him as I was prior to the season, but time will tell.

Of course touchdowns are important but the point is that your initial argument was that he falls significantly short all the way around when in truth he lines up with both following similar early career stretches (KP has started 19 games).

This absent the other two getting coaching and player upgrades.

I don’t know if he’ll ever be good, but if we’re comparing his early career to Hurts and Tua, Pickett stacks up.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Of course touchdowns are important but the point is that your initial argument was that he falls significantly short all the way around when in truth he lines up with both following similar early career stretches (KP has started 19 games).

This absent the other two getting coaching and player upgrades.

I don’t know if he’ll ever be good, but if we’re comparing his early career to Hurts and Tua, Pickett stacks up.

In mason Rudolph first 5 starts he had 4 games of 2 tds we are 19 games in and kp has 1
Of the 32 Quarterbacks who have 100 passes
QBR 30/32 ypa 23/32 complete percentage 28-32 tds z28/32 td to intercept 25-32

 

[DanielPlainview]

People actually argued with me when I said Kenny is getting more rope with the Steelers fanbase than any other qb would lol.

People here are blaming DJ's YPC for Kenny sucking lol when Kenny has cost DJ 2 td's this season alone because he absolutely cannot throw accurately over the middle.

Also somebody needs to explain to me the magic that makes the bad offensive scheme harm Kenny's passing efficiency numbers but also has 0 effect on DJ's production. Presumably it involves Harry Potter.

The scheme impacts the QB way more than the WR. WRs can and will still get open occasionally even with poorly drawn up plays, bad playcalling, etc. A QB in a bad system is more or less going to be reliant on his WRs individual efforts. For Kenny specifically, he not only has to deal with a poorly designed offense, he has to do try to work behind an OL that can’t pass block worth a shit most of the time due to both mediocre skills at best and opposing defenses being able to figure out what’s coming.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Steelers are shitty as hell on Thursday night football under Tomlin.

They have a losing record on Th nights and have lost their last three in a row.

So I’m expecting another Tomlin debacle.

Every game seems like Groundhogs Day, but seeing as how this is year three and 41 games of the SOS, I’m pretty sure Tomlin and Canada have no clue how to rectify things.

One would have to be a mental midget to think things will finally change, unfortunately.

Tomlin’s whole philosophy is based around hoping zany shit happens and they can pull out a win.

Much more sound strategy than having a team identity based around good coaching.

 

[MrBrightside]

Kenny Pickett is 25 years old and has had exactly one season in his college or pro career (his 5th year at Pitt) that would give anyone any belief he's a legitimate NFL starting QB. All his fan boys should hope and pray they keep Canada around so people can blame someone else - a legitimate NFL starter would have better numbers in the same system than the 2021 Corpse of Ben and Mitch Trubisky, yet his numbers are indistinguishable or worse (Ben's 2021 was significantly better than Pickett has been since and Ben was absolutely toast by 2021, while Trubisky's numbers are better, albeit very marginally, than Pickett's the past two season as well). Pickett almost certainly "ain't it" but we're going to be stuck with this crap through at least next year since everyone will want to give him a year post-Canada. Hell, we could be stuck through 2025 since you'll get the "well, it takes 2 years in a system to really know...."

Honestly, what's absolutely killing this team right now is how many wasted or at best meh #1 picks they've had the past several years - Edmunds, Harris, Pickett, Burns, Bush, Dupree. Watt is the only impact guy they've drafted in the first round since Shazier.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Kenny Pickett is 25 years old and has had exactly one season in his college or pro career (his 5th year at Pitt) that would give anyone any belief he's a legitimate NFL starting QB. All his fan boys should hope and pray they keep Canada around so people can blame someone else - a legitimate NFL starter would have better numbers in the same system than the 2021 Corpse of Ben and Mitch Trubisky, yet his numbers are indistinguishable or worse (Ben's 2021 was significantly better than Pickett has been since and Ben was absolutely toast by 2021, while Trubisky's numbers are better, albeit very marginally, than Pickett's the past two season as well). Pickett almost certainly "ain't it" but we're going to be stuck with this crap through at least next year since everyone will want to give him a year post-Canada. Hell, we could be stuck through 2025 since you'll get the "well, it takes 2 years in a system to really know...."

Honestly, what's absolutely killing this team right now is how many wasted or at best meh #1 picks they've had the past several years - Edmunds, Harris, Pickett, Burns, Bush, Dupree. Watt is the only impact guy they've drafted in the first round since Shazier.

It gets tiresome pointing this out, but the Steelers broke a 72 year old record for futility in the first half during Canada’s first year.

Roth put up numbers ONLY when he called his own plays in the second half and they got out of Canada’s offense.

Of course the narrative back then became that it was all Roth’s fault he couldn’t run Canada’s offense and the system just needed a mobile QB to be successful.

Sure.

Tomlin has also had over five years to fix the running game and it’s only gotten worse.

So ridding themselves of Canada isn’t going to be some magical cure.

Anyone delusional enough to think the Steelers will find a savior at QB that will overcome the incompetence of Tomlin, once again pass the bong.

What do people really think is going to happen with the next guy they grab in the 15-25th range?

Like an all timer will just be sitting there that can overcome no running game, a shitty line and Tomlin’s outdated philosophy on offense.

Keep hitting that bong folks, because the only way this changes is if Tomlin is forced by AR2 to change.

Good luck waiting on that, and sorry for the reality check that some savior QB isn’t coming down from the sky any time soon.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

https://dkpittsburghsports.com/2023/11/ ... pinion-nfl

Mike Tomlin's forever existed in a week-to-week way, in word and deed. If something happened before last Sunday, it's rewinding too far back. If something's happening after the coming game, it's too far ahead. And that goes double when he's asked about any such timeframe by one of us annoying reporter types.

I, to paraphrase the man himself, do not care.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Steelers Offensive Plays Yelled Out By Jaguars Defense Before Most Plays
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/st ... e4fd6&ei=6
AFC North rivals linebacker Germaine Pratt of the Cincinnati Bengals and Patrick Queen of the Baltimore Ravens chimed in after games against Pittsburgh during the 2022 season about the predictability of the Steelers offense under Canada. Pratt said after the Bengals won 37-30 that after Pittsburgh managed to take a 20-17 lead to halftime, the defense was able to key in on Pittsburgh using the same plays over and over.

For Queen, he told reporters he'd learned that tight end Pat Freiermuth ran only three different routes from a certain spot. Queen was able to diagnose exactly where the Penn State product was going to be and was able to snag an interception to close out the first half of the Week 14 clash in 2022.

 

[MrBrightside]

Steelers Offensive Plays Yelled Out By Jaguars Defense Before Most Plays
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/st ... e4fd6&ei=6
AFC North rivals linebacker Germaine Pratt of the Cincinnati Bengals and Patrick Queen of the Baltimore Ravens chimed in after games against Pittsburgh during the 2022 season about the predictability of the Steelers offense under Canada. Pratt said after the Bengals won 37-30 that after Pittsburgh managed to take a 20-17 lead to halftime, the defense was able to key in on Pittsburgh using the same plays over and over.

For Queen, he told reporters he'd learned that tight end Pat Freiermuth ran only three different routes from a certain spot. Queen was able to diagnose exactly where the Penn State product was going to be and was able to snag an interception to close out the first half of the Week 14 clash in 2022.

I mean, this shit is just embarrassing. I think Tomlin gets too much criticism about some things, but the fact the last two offensive coordinators were completely unqualified, walk down the hall and tap the next guy up hires that have led to trash offenses is on him. Tomlin clearly wants to be a micromanager, and that's good and bad, but if you are, then f'ing manage. I just don't think any creative offensive mind would want any part of being under him, so even if and when Canada gets pushed aside, it's not like they'll get the next Shanahan or McVay here. The BEST case scenario is probably an older guy looking for a second chance as Haley and Arians were, but I don't even know who that would be.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

https://dkpittsburghsports.com/2023/11/ ... pinion-nfl

This right here is all you need to know about the core issue with the offense, and Tomlin:

2017: 3.8 yards per carry, 25th
• 2018: 4.2 yards per carry, 24th
• 2019: 3.7 yards per carry, 30th
• 2020: 3.6 yards per carry, 32nd
• 2021: 3.9 yards per carry, 29th
• 2022: 4.1 yards per carry, 25th
• 2023: 3.4 yards per carry, 29th

Tomlin wants to run a ball control style offense reminiscent of the early 90s and keep games close, yet it’s been years upon stacked years that he keep failing to establish even a mediocre offense.

Then he brings back a colossal f*** up at OC, and hasn’t prioritized the O-line in the draft for years, save this past draft.

I don’t know how to pound this into people’s heads any harder that the rot on offense runs right to Tomlin.

Roth covered up his ineptness for years and now he’s being exposed without him, yet so many people still can’t see it.

It’s mind boggling.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

But Roethlisberger was holding back Canada’s offense, remember?

 

[pistolpete11]

Canada will be Tomlin's fall guy after the year.
They will promote Sullivan to OC because of "continuity" or something.
Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

 

[TooManyHumans]

Yeah exactly. Pickett was never projected to be good enough to be able to carry a team offensively, and that’s basically what is being asked of him with this mess of a team.

Comparing the Steelers in 2004 when Ben broke into the league to the Steelers in 2022 when Pickett broke into the league is a complete night and day difference. The Steelers were 28th in passing yards in 2004 but still went 15-1 due to their monster running game (2nd in yards) and defense (1st in yards allowed) and their great coaches.

The Steelers under Pickett are similarly ranked in passing (24th last year and 25th this year), but both their rushing game (28th this year and 16th last year in yards) and defense (30th this year and 13th last year in yards against) are wildly worse.

My issue with Pickett is that he has yet to have even one particularly good game. Yes, he is absolutely hamstrung by a terrible offense around him but I would still expect a true talent to show something impressive by this point. He has one game with 2 TDs. That is it. He is terrible in the pocket and often does not see when guys do actually get wide open in this offense. There have been numerous times Pickens has gotten behind the defense and Pickett has never even looked at him. No matter how bad the scheme or talent around him, if Pickett were truly the answer at QB I would have expected to see at least one impressive game. I have not.

But Roethlisberger was holding back Canada’s offense, remember?

Not going to defend Canada, who should have been fired in the off season, but Ben was completely toasted by the end.

 

[MrBrightside]

I mean, Mason Rudolph has 4 more career TD passes than Pickett does in 205 fewer attempts. Mason. Rudolph. But yeah, Pickett's 2021 at Pitt was great so no worries.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

My issue with Pickett is that he has yet to have even one particularly good game. Yes, he is absolutely hamstrung by a terrible offense around him but I would still expect a true talent to show something impressive by this point. He has one game with 2 TDs. That is it. He is terrible in the pocket and often does not see when guys do actually get wide open in this offense. There have been numerous times Pickens has gotten behind the defense and Pickett has never even looked at him. No matter how bad the scheme or talent around him, if Pickett were truly the answer at QB I would have expected to see at least one impressive game. I have not.


Not going to defend Canada, who should have been fired in the off season, but Ben was completely toasted by the end.

He was on his last legs but was never the problem with the offense.

His corpse still took over games in the second half when he called his own plays.

The problems are all still here two years later… shitty schemes, can’t run, can’t pass, can’t score.

I was told Canada had a good scheme and just needed a decent mobile QB and he would show his stuff.

I’m still waiting…

 

[bigdaddyk88]

He was on his last legs but was never the problem with the offense.

His corpse still took over games in the second half when he called his own plays.

The problems are all still here two years later… shitty schemes, can’t run, can’t pass, can’t score.

I was told Canada had a good scheme and just needed a decent mobile QB and he would show his stuff.

I’m still waiting…

He did scheme up a walk in td for dj again for KP against Jacksonsville. GP was open ton against Jacksonville but ignored by kp

 

[MrBrightside]

He did scheme up a walk in td for dj again for KP against Jacksonsville. GP was open ton against Jacksonville but ignored by kp

Let's not act like that goal line play was something more than it was. That was a pretty basic set that is very hard to defend in short yardage if executed. That play was all on Pickett, but the fact that you'd resort to cherry picking an individual play as a defense of Canada generally says all you need to know.

 

[JTG]

Kenny Pickett is 25 years old and has had exactly one season in his college or pro career (his 5th year at Pitt) that would give anyone any belief he's a legitimate NFL starting QB. All his fan boys should hope and pray they keep Canada around so people can blame someone else - a legitimate NFL starter would have better numbers in the same system than the 2021 Corpse of Ben and Mitch Trubisky, yet his numbers are indistinguishable or worse (Ben's 2021 was significantly better than Pickett has been since and Ben was absolutely toast by 2021, while Trubisky's numbers are better, albeit very marginally, than Pickett's the past two season as well). Pickett almost certainly "ain't it" but we're going to be stuck with this crap through at least next year since everyone will want to give him a year post-Canada. Hell, we could be stuck through 2025 since you'll get the "well, it takes 2 years in a system to really know...."

Honestly, what's absolutely killing this team right now is how many wasted or at best meh #1 picks they've had the past several years - Edmunds, Harris, Pickett, Burns, Bush, Dupree. Watt is the only impact guy they've drafted in the first round since Shazier.

I don't know what age matters. It's all about experience. The only thing drafting an older guy provides is more maturity, and I think you see that in spades with Kenny. He stepped into the huddle and immediately took the reigns and was seen as the leader. He needs to NFL experience, and this...

Steelers Offensive Plays Yelled Out By Jaguars Defense Before Most Plays
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/st ... e4fd6&ei=6
AFC North rivals linebacker Germaine Pratt of the Cincinnati Bengals and Patrick Queen of the Baltimore Ravens chimed in after games against Pittsburgh during the 2022 season about the predictability of the Steelers offense under Canada. Pratt said after the Bengals won 37-30 that after Pittsburgh managed to take a 20-17 lead to halftime, the defense was able to key in on Pittsburgh using the same plays over and over.

For Queen, he told reporters he'd learned that tight end Pat Freiermuth ran only three different routes from a certain spot. Queen was able to diagnose exactly where the Penn State product was going to be and was able to snag an interception to close out the first half of the Week 14 clash in 2022.

...is why I can't totally blame Kenny. Has he sailed balls? Yes. Has he held on to the ball too long and taken unnecessary sacks? Sure. But if a defense is calling out plays and they know exactly what is coming, it's not far fetched to believe that Kenny legitimately has no where to throw, or when he does throw, he's throwing to double or triple coverage. This offensive scheme is absolutely garbage. Multiple QBs...same results. One was a first ballot HOFer.

 

[MrBrightside]

I don't know what age matters. It's all about experience. The only thing drafting an older guy provides is more maturity, and I think you see that in spades with Kenny. He stepped into the huddle and immediately took the reigns and was seen as the leader. He needs to NFL experience, and this...


...is why I can't totally blame Kenny. Has he sailed balls? Yes. Has he held on to the ball too long and taken unnecessary sacks? Sure. But if a defense is calling out plays and they know exactly what is coming, it's not far fetched to believe that Kenny legitimately has no where to throw, or when he does throw, he's throwing to double or triple coverage. This offensive scheme is absolutely garbage. Multiple QBs...same results. One was a first ballot HOFer.

Yes, the scheme is garbage. But again, if Pickett was a legitimate NFL starting QB, you'd be seeing a bigger difference in the results than you see if Trubisky and Rudolph. And really, if you're actually going to argue that the 2021 Ben was anything more than a complete shell of himself, your credibility on the subject is not very high.