OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: They Killed Kenny!

[JTG]

Ha ok. In his first season as a starter Rodgers threw 28 TD's and for over 4,000 yards, He was a Pro Bowler his second season. Allen was 2nd in the MVP voting his age 24 season (3rd as a starter). Alex Smith, whatever - he was never more than a serviceable game manager. This is really reaching.

But fine, we can throw away 2 more seasons hoping the Kenny Pickett can be the next Alex Smith. I'm excited.

When Rodgers started. He sat on the bench for 3 full years.

Again, age doesn't matter whatsoever to me. It's game experience. Allen's 3rd year he started putting it together, but he still has issues now.

Alex Smith was in the league for 15 years and was probably what Pickett is going to be, and Smith was able to win football games. 31st ALL TIME in passing yards.

What about Brees? He was one of the top 3 QBs of a generation. It took him 5 or 6 years to really put it together.

 

[Rave7215]

Kollman did a pretty good breakdown of the offense. Worth a watch

 

[JTG]

It's so funny that they said how they needed 3 years to implement this offense and every defense we play has said how stupidly simple it is. It's almost like propaganda Canada put out here to milk the organization for 3 years of salary.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Canada sucks. Not even going to attempt to defend that turd. I still think it is fair to worry about Pickett because he simply has not flashed like you would expect a top end talent to flash, no matter how bad the offense is. I have not seen anything special from him other than the ability to step it up at the end of games after sucking the whole game (if that is special). Obviously the team is not what it was when Ben started originally, but I feel like Ben on this team would have shown a lot more than Pickett has so far. I am just not seeing the hope for upside with Pickett. I really hope to be wrong though.

It’s not really even about KP any more, it’s the disturbing shit I’m seeing from Tomlin that tells me he has zero clue how to develop a young QB.

He’s created a huge mess on offense that is poisonous for any young QB.

And he’s never held accountable so it’s disheartening to know shit won’t change even if they get a next guy.

 

[MrBrightside]

When Rodgers started. He sat on the bench for 3 full years.

Again, age doesn't matter whatsoever to me. It's game experience. Allen's 3rd year he started putting it together, but he still has issues now.

Alex Smith was in the league for 15 years and was probably what Pickett is going to be, and Smith was able to win football games. 31st ALL TIME in passing yards.

What about Brees? He was one of the top 3 QBs of a generation. It took him 5 or 6 years to really put it together.

With regard to Alex Smith, again, that's a bad comparison. Alex Smith did not win games the first several years he was a starter, but because of his pedigree and lack of alternatives, he kept playing in SF. He literally did not have a winning record until this SEVENTH season in the NFL, and then after being ok behind a Super Bowl caliber team, the 49ers couldn't wait to bench him and then dump him to KC. The idea that Alex Smith is a "winner" like people suggest Pickett is cracks me up - yes, Smith won on two teams that went to and won Super Bowls with OTHER quarterbacks, but yes, let's give him credit for that.

Fine, you got me on Brees. You were able to name one QB in 25 years who struggled the way Pickett has his first two seasons that became an elite QB. Now let's do the 1398 other QB's who struggled the way Pickett has his first two seasons and who became Colt McCoy or Nick Foles or Mitch Trubisky or JaMarcus Russell or Johnny Manziel or Baker Mayfield or Trey Lance or Mac Jones or Zach Wilson or Drew Lock or Dwayne Haskins or Sam Darnold or Josh Rosen or Marcus Mariota or Blake Bortles or Teddy Bridgewater or...

 

[DanielPlainview]

I mean, this shit is just embarrassing. I think Tomlin gets too much criticism about some things, but the fact the last two offensive coordinators were completely unqualified, walk down the hall and tap the next guy up hires that have led to trash offenses is on him. Tomlin clearly wants to be a micromanager, and that's good and bad, but if you are, then f'ing manage. I just don't think any creative offensive mind would want any part of being under him, so even if and when Canada gets pushed aside, it's not like they'll get the next Shanahan or McVay here. The BEST case scenario is probably an older guy looking for a second chance as Haley and Arians were, but I don't even know who that would be.

It's going to be Byron Leftwich undoubtedly

Yes, the scheme is garbage. But again, if Pickett was a legitimate NFL starting QB, you'd be seeing a bigger difference in the results than you see if Trubisky and Rudolph. And really, if you're actually going to argue that the 2021 Ben was anything more than a complete shell of himself, your credibility on the subject is not very high.

Mitch Trubisky took a talent-wise dogshit Bears offense to the post-season. He's not a bad QB but he's also not the type who can overcome bad scheme and a shit OL. There aren't many Tom Brady's out there (and even the GOAT struggled if he didn't have good blocking).

Hurts looked like shit before the new coaching staff came in. There was talk of Miami unloading Tua when McDaniel was hired. SCHEME matters the most for the QB.

Again, there just aren't many who have ever played this game that can overcome a bad scheme, let alone expecting it from a 2nd year QB who's never really had quality QB coaching.

 

[MrBrightside]

Leftwich would be a bad hire. So I guess it makes perfect sense.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

They didn’t even take Leftwhich call. It will be a QB coach from Philly Detroit Or Houston

 

[JTG]

With regard to Alex Smith, again, that's a bad comparison. Alex Smith did not win games the first several years he was a starter, but because of his pedigree and lack of alternatives, he kept playing in SF. He literally did not have a winning record until this SEVENTH season in the NFL, and then after being ok behind a Super Bowl caliber team, the 49ers couldn't wait to bench him and then dump him to KC. The idea that Alex Smith is a "winner" like people suggest Pickett is cracks me up - yes, Smith won on two teams that went to and won Super Bowls with OTHER quarterbacks, but yes, let's give him credit for that.

Fine, you got me on Brees. You were able to name one QB in 25 years who struggled the way Pickett has his first two seasons that became an elite QB. Now let's do the 1398 other QB's who struggled the way Pickett has his first two seasons and who became Colt McCoy or Nick Foles or Mitch Trubisky or JaMarcus Russell or Johnny Manziel or Baker Mayfield or Trey Lance or Mac Jones or Zach Wilson or Drew Lock or Dwayne Haskins or Sam Darnold or Josh Rosen or Marcus Mariota or Blake Bortles or Teddy Bridgewater or...

Your defense of Smith, but your degradation of Pickett is odd. Alex Smith is a winner...his stats say so. He's won much more than he has lost. I didn't just name a QB - I named a QB who was one of the best ever for over a decade. With any position, more guys are going to fail than succeed...that's being an NFL player. I'm not arguing that point, nor am I arguing that Kenny is the guy.

I'm saying you want to throw the baby out with the bath water, and the dude has only truly been the starter from the hop this season. It's insanely premature. Then factor in NOTHING is in place to assist him in succeeding. He has no line, no running game, and an offensive scheme defenses are openly mocking.

Be angry and frustrated. That's your prerogative. But at least be directed in the correct place.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Alex Smith was one of the best ever for a decade?

Lolwut?

 

[MrBrightside]

Alex Smith was one of the best ever for a decade?

Lolwut?

I literally laughed out loud when I read that. And decided to give up the discussion.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

When Rodgers started. He sat on the bench for 3 full years.

Again, age doesn't matter whatsoever to me. It's game experience. Allen's 3rd year he started putting it together, but he still has issues now.

Alex Smith was in the league for 15 years and was probably what Pickett is going to be, and Smith was able to win football games. 31st ALL TIME in passing yards.

What about Brees? He was one of the top 3 QBs of a generation. It took him 5 or 6 years to really put it together.

Rodgers is such a special case that he cannot be used as an example. He didn't start until his 4th season.

For all the pissing and moaning about Josh Allen's 2nd season, he had 20 TD passes and another 9 rushing TDs. If Kenny was contributing with his legs, then I may give him a break, but he isn't and never will.

Alex Smith, He is an example, but it if that is all Kenny ends up being, they need to move on. The Chiefs did it even after his best season.

Drew Brees is the one example of a guy that struggled mightily and then turned it around to be a star/all pro.

I do agree with giving Kenny another season, but If I was the Steelers I would look to draft a QB in the 2nd/3rd round this upcoming draft. There is potentially 5-6 first round talents and a host of intriguing guys that will go in the 2nd and 3rd round. Unless of course, if he blows up in the second half and shows he is progressing. What would I consider progression?, he needs to throw 13-15 TDs to finish the season.

 

[xlm34]

JTG was pretty obviously referring to Brees with that comment.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Rodgers is such a special case that he cannot be used as an example. He didn't start until his 4th season.

For all the pissing and moaning about Josh Allen's 2nd season, he had 20 TD passes and another 9 rushing TDs. If Kenny was contributing with his legs, then I may give him a break, but he isn't and never will.

Alex Smith, He is an example, but it if that is all Kenny ends up being, they need to move on. The Chiefs did it even after his best season.

Drew Brees is the one example of a guy that struggled mightily and then turned it around to be a star/all pro.

I do agree with giving Kenny another season, but If I was the Steelers I would look to draft a QB in the 2nd/3rd round this upcoming draft. There is potentially 5-6 first round talents and a host of intriguing guys that will go in the 2nd and 3rd round. Unless of course, if he blows up in the second half and shows he is progressing. What would I consider progression?, he needs to throw 13-15 TDs to finish the season.

Well the Chiefs moved on bc they knew Mahommes was going to be a stud and took a calculated risk. If Mahommes wasn't on their roster, they likely keep Smith.

Agree with the remainder of your post

 

[JTG]

Rodgers is such a special case that he cannot be used as an example. He didn't start until his 4th season.

For all the pissing and moaning about Josh Allen's 2nd season, he had 20 TD passes and another 9 rushing TDs. If Kenny was contributing with his legs, then I may give him a break, but he isn't and never will.

Alex Smith, He is an example, but it if that is all Kenny ends up being, they need to move on. The Chiefs did it even after his best season.

Drew Brees is the one example of a guy that struggled mightily and then turned it around to be a star/all pro.

I do agree with giving Kenny another season, but If I was the Steelers I would look to draft a QB in the 2nd/3rd round this upcoming draft. There is potentially 5-6 first round talents and a host of intriguing guys that will go in the 2nd and 3rd round. Unless of course, if he blows up in the second half and shows he is progressing. What would I consider progression?, he needs to throw 13-15 TDs to finish the season.

The Chiefs drafted the best QB in the NFL the past 5 years. And the Rodgers example can be used because he still gained valuable experience and he was drafted the same range as Kenny, albeit he very well could have gone 1st overall because of his talent.

Drafting another QB right now is spitting into the wind. They should be drafting to maximize Kenny, and if that doesn't work then you know full well he isn't your guy and you full move on from him.

Those who watched Pitt have seen this before. He's uncomfortable, and rightfully so. When he gets comfortable he can be a good QB.

 

[JTG]

I don't think any single person who stands up for Kenny is proclaiming he is a second coming of any sort. The argument is that he hasn't been given the tools or the offensive scheme to succeed, and before humming him under the bus, maybe we should change those things.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Kenny's arm and accuracy aren't good enough to stretch a defense under any coordinator, imo.

His ball really is lacking zip on the long throws and I think he struggles a lot to find passing lanes over the middle.

 

[Josey Wales]

 

[TooManyHumans]

It’s not really even about KP any more, it’s the disturbing shit I’m seeing from Tomlin that tells me he has zero clue how to develop a young QB.

He’s created a huge mess on offense that is poisonous for any young QB.

And he’s never held accountable so it’s disheartening to know shit won’t change even if they get a next guy.

Yeah, he's not going anywhere. Best hope is that he is forced to get a legit offensive coordinator.

 

[Josey Wales]

Yeah, he's not going anywhere. Best hope is that he is forced to get a legit offensive coordinator.

Go & search where the last 3 OC's are

 

[MrBrightside]

Kenny's arm and accuracy aren't good enough to stretch a defense under any coordinator, imo.

His ball really is lacking zip on the long throws and I think he struggles a lot to find passing lanes over the middle.

This is correct, and I'd add to his instincts are poor - he feels pressure that isn't there, he's turned his back to the line of scrimmage in scramble mode more than any QB I've seen since Bubby Brister, and he scrambles into pressure more than away from it. Yes, if everything around him is perfect, he could probably be serviceable, but that can be said about a bunch of guys and everything around him is far from perfect. Honestly Trubisky probably gives them a better chance RIGHT NOW to win, but even being the skeptic that I am, I'd let it play out with Pickett the next 10 games. And I'm sorry but if we don't have a pretty good idea of what he is after 30 NFL starts, that in of itself answers the question.

 

[xlm34]

Well Canada is getting moved from the box to the sidelines so things should start cooking now.

My optimistic spin is that it’s at least an acknowledgement that things aren’t working as is. Some yinzer is absolutely gonna try to nail him with an IC light though.

 

[Pens1566]

Well Canada is getting moved from the box to the sidelines so things should start cooking now.

My optimistic spin is that it’s at least an acknowledgement that things aren’t working as is. Some yinzer is absolutely gonna try to nail him with an IC light though.

Sounds like that fan has a better arm than Pickett.

 

[MrBrightside]

The fact that Tomlin would think that getting Canada MORE involved with things is the solution is pretty good evidence that Tomlin is as much as the problem as Canada is.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yeah, he's not going anywhere. Best hope is that he is forced to get a legit offensive coordinator.

Nope he’s not going anywhere and he lives in his own little protective bubble sponsored by AR2.

The new OC will be Jackson because Tomlin doesn’t have to fear producing actual results.

As long as he’s undefeated in press conferences, that’s apparently what matters most to AR2.