OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: They Killed Kenny!

[Peat]

Also re the idea Pickett has regressed -

ESPN's QBR says he's gone from 53.6 to 36.3. His EPA has gone from -1 to -1.9.

So there are numbers to support it.

I do think by the eye test he's making me a little more worried he just doesn't have the processing speed. But then I felt like he was turning it around after the Ravens/Rams games.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Kp is 15 attempts short of 2005 Ben. Ben only played 12 games he is 700 off of what ben finished with the difference is 17 tds to 6

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Your entire thesis is that they should consider throwing away the season by forcing Pickett into a role there's little reason to believe he can handle because they can't win a Super Bowl playing this way. If this was 2004-2005 Ben, your argument would be absolutely correct. It's not, and making great the enemy of good by trying to make Pickett into something he isn't is neither going to happen nor should it.

I think this is where the crux of the argument lies: we don't know what KP can do bc he hasn't been permitted to do anything out of AB or C.

It's like giving the keys to a 16 year old. It's appropriate to provide strict limitations of what they can and cannot do with the car. But if you're giving those same limitations when they are 20 years old, you either haven't appropriately prepared them for driving or they shouldn't be driving at all.

KP is like 25 years old. He's not some bushy-tailed 21 yr old NFL rookie. Give him the damn keys and if he wrecks it, that's what insurance (Trubiski/Mason) is for

 

[xlm34]

People where? Just curious as to where to get more analysis.

Re the bolded - this to me seems like the sort of thing where I want to ask questions about the preparation given what Sternberger said. If it's just "this guy runs this route, this guy runs that route", are they covering "DJ is running a curl but if he gasses his guy he keeps going"? That seems so elementary I shouldn't be questioning it, but at the same time, since it keeps getting revealed they don't do elementary things...

Here was one guess at what happened. I’ll have to try to find some others. This guy is one of the better follows imo for Steelers film stuff.



As far as the rest? Good question but I have no clue. I’m thinking it was just a spur of the moment thing with a guy improvising a route. Which I don’t think is all that uncommon.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I think this is where the crux of the argument lies: we don't know what KP can do bc he hasn't been permitted to do anything out of AB or C.

It's like giving the keys to a 16 year old. It's appropriate to provide strict limitations of what they can and cannot do with the car. But if you're giving those same limitations when they are 20 years old, you either haven't appropriately prepared them for driving or they shouldn't be driving at all.

KP is like 25 years old. He's not some bushy-tailed 21 yr old NFL rookie. Give him the damn keys and if he wrecks it, that's what insurance (Trubiski/Mason) is for

Tomlin wants him to take the keys. Like DK said Ben had a janitors set Tomlin is challenging you to take the car but you have to earn it. They see him every day in practice they gave him sole Captaincy he has an office and they tailor the offense around him

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I certainly do not root for losing.

But the goal is championships. This is a team that is designed to lose, and lose by large margins, in the playoffs.

I get that many team's fans would be jealous of any winning. But it gets tiring the hamster wheel of teams built not to lose and not built to actually win.

But given the circumstances and things we are pretty sure we know and don’t like, we can still root for the team to win, right? Making the playoffs is better than not?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Tomlin wants him to take the keys. Like DK said Ben had a janitors set Tomlin is challenging you to take the car but you have to earn it. They see him every day in practice they gave him sole Captaincy he has an office and they tailor the offense around him

The track record of QB play indicates this statement is patently false. We've got 4 seasons of proof

 

[Peat]

Here was one guess at what happened. I’ll have to try to find some others. This guy is one of the better follows imo for Steelers film stuff.



As far as the rest? Good question but I have no clue. I’m thinking it was just a spur of the moment thing with a guy improvising a route. Which I don’t think is all that uncommon.

Thanks!

The improvision thing makes sense, and shouldn't be uncommon, but it's also why everybody needs to know what everyone else is doing and why. Pretty hard to predict those things if you don't know the details of how the other guy is going to decide things.

Also - Did not expect to see this stat on here

 

[bigdaddyk88]

The track record of QB play indicates this statement is patently false. We've got 4 seasons of proof

It’s amazing he trusted Mason to hit slants and use rpo in 2019. He let Duck throw it all over but people think he is holding KP back.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

https://www.si.com/nfl/steelers/gm-report/five-thoughts-pittsburgh-steelers-kenny-pickett-mixed-bag-flashes

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

This team is going to win 9-11 games playing the way it is even if KP continues to be the pedestrian. Again, your entire theses are predicated upon the ideas that (a) turning KP loose will make the team better and (b) anything less than a run to the Super Bowl is a failure and no different than 3-14.

So basically Tomlin needs to keep chasing the 9 and protect his meaningless win streak.

Got it.

Some of us actually believe Tomlin should be held to a higher standard, like winning a playoff game after you know, six years.

One playoff win shouldn’t be unexpected, despite the hyperbole you are swimming in.

If you think the play it safe, smoke and mirrors, living in his fears offense Tomlin is currently running will produce a playoff win, he has you completely brainwashed

 

[xlm34]

Thanks!

The improvision thing makes sense, and shouldn't be uncommon, but it's also why everybody needs to know what everyone else is doing and why. Pretty hard to predict those things if you don't know the details of how the other guy is going to decide things.

Also - Did not expect to see this stat on here

Yeah the RBs have been good when they get somewhat competent blocking. I think they’ve found a pretty great split as well between Najee and Warren.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It’s amazing he trusted Mason to hit slants and use rpo in 2019. He let Duck throw it all over but people think he is holding KP back.

So you are rewriting history now? Cool.

Ducks best game was 212 yards, when exactly was Tomlin having him “throw it all over the place”?

Rudolph avg a paltry 6 YPA, and was known as “Checkdown Charlie” by Yinzers because he was afraid to push the ball down the field.

We now know this is Tomlin’s MO…. Safe, no turnovers, low risk and let the D win it.

 

[MrBrightside]

So basically Tomlin needs to keep chasing the 9 and protect his meaningless win streak.

Got it.

Some of us actually believe Tomlin should be held to a higher standard, like winning a playoff game after you know, six years.

One playoff win shouldn’t be unexpected, despite the hyperbole you are swimming in.

If you think the play it safe, smoke and mirrors, living in his fears offense Tomlin is currently running will produce a playoff win, he has you completely brainwashed

Hold Tomlin to whatever standard you want. I'm not taking a position on him at all, and certainly am not as ABSOLUTELY F'ING INVESTED in the subject as you are. My opinion has nothing to do positively or negatively about Tomlin. It has to do with the facts there's no evidence Pickett being unleashed will make this team a contender and whether you absolutely hate the fact they are 6-3, they are in the playoff race and they are unlikely to make wholesale changes right now. Keep ranting about Tomlin 20x a day. Have at it. I don't care one way or the other about him and was not at all the point of my post.

I'm assuming you have conversations like this every morning:

WIFE: Good morning Jiggyfly.

YOU: HOW CAN IT BE A GOOD MORNING WHEN MIKE TOMLIN IS STILL EMPLOYED????!!?? GET OUT OF MY BEDROOM!

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Hold Tomlin to whatever standard you want. I'm not taking a position on him at all, and certainly am not as ABSOLUTELY F'ING INVESTED in the subject as you are. My opinion has nothing to do positively or negatively about Tomlin. It has to do with the facts there's no evidence Pickett being unleashed will make this team a contender and whether you absolutely hate the fact they are 6-3, they are in the playoff race and they are unlikely to make wholesale changes right now. Keep ranting about Tomlin 20x a day. Have at it. I don't care one way or the other about him and was not at all the point of my post.

I'm assuming you have conversations like this every morning:

WIFE: Good morning Jiggyfly.

YOU: HOW CAN IT BE A GOOD MORNING WHEN MIKE TOMLIN IS STILL EMPLOYED????!!?? GET OUT OF MY BEDROOM!

Bro, the hyperbole and made up nonsense just makes you look foolish, much like you defending Tomlin every year and him making an ass out of you every time.

That part is amusing, no doubt.

All your post is about now is someone who can’t defend their illogical take and keeps going in circles.

Without a QB driving your offense, there is no winning in the playoffs, bang out some more keyboard diarrhea if it gets you off, but that reality has proven true for the last 20+ years.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Mason in his 10 starts had more yards and pass attempts than Kp and more tds and got ran off but KP gets millions of excuses

 

[Peat]

This team is going to win 9-11 games playing the way it is even if KP continues to be the pedestrian. Again, your entire theses are predicated upon the ideas that (a) turning KP loose will make the team better and (b) anything less than a run to the Super Bowl is a failure and no different than 3-14.

To me, the biggest goal the Steelers should have had this year is find out what they had in Pickett. Its a rebuilding team and Pickett is the single biggest limiter or driver of that rebuild happening on the field.

Right now, I think they have failed to do so in the worst possible way. He hasn't balled out and sealed the deal. He hasn't been awful and positioned the team to take a replacement. He has either stagnated or regressed, leaving the team in the swampy middle.

I've enjoyed all the Steelers wins, but right now it looks like they're winning the battle and losing the war. It looks like we could be another two years away from good QB play, and that's brutal.

 

[MrBrightside]

Bro, the hyperbole and made up nonsense just makes you look foolish, much like you defending Tomlin every year and him making an ass out of you every time.

That part is amusing, no doubt.

All your post is about now is someone who can’t defend their illogical take and keeps going in circles.

Without a QB driving your offense, there is no winning in the playoffs, bang out some more keyboard diarrhea if it gets you off, but that reality has proven true for the last 20+ years.

Today's challenge for you is to find the posts where I've defended Tomlin. I'll hang up and listen. Go ahead. Search function works on this site. Find them.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

But given the circumstances and things we are pretty sure we know and don’t like, we can still root for the team to win, right? Making the playoffs is better than not?

Yes.

And no.

Short term that makes sense. But when it becomes Groundhog Day with no reasonable expectations of it ever changing it is an issue.

By the way. The media seems to be reading us here at HF.

They are coming around to the offense being a Tomlin problem even more than a Canada and KP problem. A purposeful designed feature of the system rather than a flaw.

Dulac: Pickett, Canada Only Following Tomlin's Conservative Directive, Doesn't Want To 'Take The Leash Off' QB

Among starting quarterbacks this season, only three of them have attempted a lower percentage of deep passes than the Pittsburgh Steelers’ Kenny Pickett. Through nine games, he has attempted just 20 passes of 20 or more air yards out of 253 total pass attempts, or just 7.9 percent. Only Jared...

steelersdepot.com

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Today's challenge for you is to find the posts where I've defended Tomlin. I'll hang up and listen. Go ahead. Search function works on this site. Find them.

You first boss.

Find my 20 posts bashing Tomlin today.

Pssst, you’ll have to use the hyperbole math equation.

 

[MrBrightside]

You first boss.

Find my 20 posts bashing Tomlin today.

Pssst, you’ll have to use the hyperbole math equation.

Translated - You called my bluff so I'm going to deflect.

And really man, every post you make is about Tomlin. Like all of them.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Translated - You called my bluff so I'm going to deflect.

And really man, every post you make is about Tomlin. Like all of them.

Holy shit! The coach that has his footprint all over the team and hasn't won a playoff game in six years is the focal point of what I think is wrong with the team?

Now let's talk about why you always feel the need to exaggerate things, starting with your post that we want the team to lose on purpose so KP can develop.

Is this like a childhood issue to get attention or what?

 

[The Old Master]

Here was one guess at what happened. I’ll have to try to find some others. This guy is one of the better follows imo for Steelers film stuff.



As far as the rest? Good question but I have no clue. I’m thinking it was just a spur of the moment thing with a guy improvising a route. Which I don’t think is all that uncommon.

not being in the room (i have no clue) it seems like it would be a read and react like in hockey. you have certain keys to read and what happens there, determines what you are to do. so, it lets the qb know what the wr is going to do before it happens.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Tomlin could win a playoff team and people would still complain

 

[JTG]

Foster has been comparing Jones impact to Pouncey. They both have elevated the entire o line and aill allow the o line coach to force the other 4 guys to raise their play. He said Chuks Daniels and Cole got fat and happy with their contracts and just wanted to roll the ball out and figure it out. He said Moore is going to make his money elsewhere and would not be shocked if he is traded for capital and he would trade chuks and draft another OT and C this upcoming draft he fully expects Andy to build the Eagles o line here and use Jones has his Peters

That is absolutely ideal, in my opinion. If they can take Chuks and Moore and turn them into 3rd rounders, I'm good with that. Some team is going to snag Moore, turn him into a G, and he's going to go to a few Pro Bowls.

The fact they may have found the first franchise LT in my lifetime, and he’s playing RT because of one of the worst LTs in the league is…. hmmm..

It would be like making a pedestrian WR the focal point of your passing game when you have a more dynamic choice.

...it's the most Pittsburgh fan thing to see.

I would keep Moore as a backup. Unless they are getting a decently high pick for him. His cap cost for next season is only 1.2mil because he is still on his rookie deal. And for as much as people pick on him, he would be fine as a backup. Now, if they can get say a 3rd for him, then yeah, make the deal.

Nobody will be trading for Chuks at his current contract. He'll be cut and then catch on with another team. I mean sure, if they can get a 6th-7th for him, go for it. But that deal needs to be done before March 22nd and he gets a 4 mil bonus. I guess they could ask him if he wants to take a paycut and be paid as a backup they could go that route as well.

Cole doesn't make that much money. I think they keep him as a backup until they know whether the new C can take over. And that is because the best C prospects in this upcoming draft are late 2nd-3rd round talent. There isn't a Pouncey or Mack or Ragnow in this draft.

But in general, I totally agree with building the line. This draft has a ton of OT that are worthy of being taken in the first round. I could see them going OT/CB/S-OT/CB/S-C with the first 3 picks.

I just don't think Moore is above bar as a tackle to play tackle ever, and I have been a Moore supporter. He gets flat out embarrassed. He should be kicked to G. He'll be outstanding there.

This line is so underwhelming If it wasn't so cap costly, I'd clean house. Rebuild on with 77 as your stud, and we draft a C to start immediately, and go to free agency again. They have to get some guys in here for this line or this shit is never going to work no matter who is coordinator. Cap is going up, hard to imagine Kenny makes huge money with how this is going...maximize Kenny and Najee as much as you can so decisions can be made with them.