OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: They Killed Kenny!

[bigdaddyk88]

I would keep Moore as a backup. Unless they are getting a decently high pick for him. His cap cost for next season is only 1.2mil because he is still on his rookie deal. And for as much as people pick on him, he would be fine as a backup. Now, if they can get say a 3rd for him, then yeah, make the deal.

Nobody will be trading for Chuks at his current contract. He'll be cut and then catch on with another team. I mean sure, if they can get a 6th-7th for him, go for it. But that deal needs to be done before March 22nd and he gets a 4 mil bonus. I guess they could ask him if he wants to take a paycut and be paid as a backup they could go that route as well.

Cole doesn't make that much money. I think they keep him as a backup until they know whether the new C can take over. And that is because the best C prospects in this upcoming draft are late 2nd-3rd round talent. There isn't a Pouncey or Mack or Ragnow in this draft.

But in general, I totally agree with building the line. This draft has a ton of OT that are worthy of being taken in the first round. I could see them going OT/CB/S-OT/CB/S-C with the first 3 picks.

Chuks is the 34 highest paid ot next season on aav he makes less than duane brown and a little more than dialaed got from Tennessee his cap hit for next season is 11 million his total value is 33 amongst OT
Yeah Cole will start a c until the rookie is ready moore can’t be a backup he can’t play rt so you trade him theres a ton of needy teams

 

[Peat]

The injury excuse makes no sense they let him throw it 30 times on a short week after he left the game against Jacksonville

1) He threw far, far shorter than usual. They upped the level of WR screens dramatically. They changed the QB game plan to make the QB do less. That's just the simple story of the stats.

2) He left the Jags game with an injury that has a 3/4 - 6 week full recovery time. Again, very simple fact that he cannot have been fully healthy.

So he was definitely playing hurt and they definitely changed the plan to some degree. Allowing the fact that they didn't change all of the plan to blind you to that is just counter to reality.

I assume that if Pickett ever actually has a good game (we can hope, anyway), that everyone will be on here saying what a great job Tomlin and Canada did. I mean, if every time Pickett plays shitty it is all on them, I assume the reverse should hold as well.

I have seriously never seen people bend so over backwards for a player who has put so damn little on tape. At some point people are going to have to reckon with the fact that Pickett owns what he puts on tape, and it sucks. And once again, I don't like Canada, think he should have been gone in the off season, but there were a ton of plays to be made in the last game and Pickett not only didn't make them, but most of the time he didn't even try because he was locked onto his primary.

Well, yeah. As someone who believes a huge amount of good QB play comes down to good preparation, of course I'd say the people preparing him did a great job if Pickett plays great.

But as someone who believes a huge amount of good QB play comes down to good preparation, I don't have to bend over backwards to say that Pickett is in a situation where I don't expect him to play anywhere near his best. You say bend over backwards like I'm running after a 20 dollar note that's twisting in the wind, where as far as I'm concerned I've just been sent 20 bucks over cashapp. I don't even have to move a muscle.

The idea that coaches and players should try to lose games so they can be replaced by other players and so their jobs can be jeopardized is the dumbest f'ing thesis imaginable.

Nobody has said that.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

If he is so hurt he isn’t 100 percent they would not have out there the coach would not be saying they need more from him. This next man up mentality means MY would be playing he would have been on ir like muth dj and cam

 

[TooManyHumans]

Well, yeah. As someone who believes a huge amount of good QB play comes down to good preparation, of course I'd say the people preparing him did a great job if Pickett plays great.

But as someone who believes a huge amount of good QB play comes down to good preparation, I don't have to bend over backwards to say that Pickett is in a situation where I don't expect him to play anywhere near his best. You say bend over backwards like I'm running after a 20 dollar note that's twisting in the wind, where as far as I'm concerned I've just been sent 20 bucks over cashapp. I don't even have to move a muscle.

So it is lack of preparation by the coaches that explains why Pickett was locking onto one guy and not even trying to see the field? Do you honestly think the coaches tell him to do that? I mean, just look at the play where he forced it to Warren after locking onto him. DJ beats his guy as fully and quickly as you can in the NFL, he's on the same side as Warren and even throws his hand up to try to get Pickett's attention, and Pickett does not even attempt to look at him or anywhere but at Warren, who he forces a ball to even though he is never open. That is on Pickett, not Tomlin or Canada. He did it frequently in the last game, when he had good pass blocking and an elite running game to back him up. The scheme and coaching were fine. The QB play was not.

 

[Peat]

If he is so hurt he isn’t 100 percent they would not have out there the coach would not be saying they need more from him. This next man up mentality means MY would be playing he would have been on ir like muth dj and cam

I'm sorry, did you just say the Steelers wouldn't play a guy who isn't 100% fit?

 

[Peat]

Anyway, leaving the endless circle alone for a moment, this article is good

Looking For Culprit Of Steelers' Passing Woes? Blame The 1-Step Drop

The Pittsburgh Steelers have not had a lot of success in the passing game in 2023. They rank in the bottom five in passing yards per game, passing touchdowns, and first down rate on passes. They also rank in the bottom ten in team passer rating, completion percentage, and 20-yard plays. The only...

steelersdepot.com

TL-DR

Steelers use 3 step drop backs and roll outs a lot compared to everyone else, but don't use 1 step/5 step/7 step/RPO/Screens much

They're pretty much a median passing team on 3 step drop backs.

But the moment they use the 1 step drop back, they're just about the worst team in the league.

Sadly the article doesn't really dig into what's happening there, but food for thought in working out what's going on. Just from eye test, I would say that a lot of the Steeler's quick pass game reminds me very much of their tendency to run on 2nd and long - opponents see it coming and are there waiting.

 

[MrBrightside]

So it is lack of preparation by the coaches that explains why Pickett was locking onto one guy and not even trying to see the field? Do you honestly think the coaches tell him to do that? I mean, just look at the play where he forced it to Warren after locking onto him. DJ beats his guy as fully and quickly as you can in the NFL, he's on the same side as Warren and even throws his hand up to try to get Pickett's attention, and Pickett does not even attempt to look at him or anywhere but at Warren, who he forces a ball to even though he is never open. That is on Pickett, not Tomlin or Canada. He did it frequently in the last game, when he had good pass blocking and an elite running game to back him up. The scheme and coaching were fine. The QB play was not.

One of the knocks on Pickett coming out of college is that he was a slow processor and didn't move through his progressions as you need to in the NFL. While I'm sure he's actually wonderful at these things and is just being held back by coaching, these concerns have completely been borne out at this level. Also, with the exception of occasional balls to Pickens, Pickett is a guy who just won't throw it if the guy isn't college open - you don't get those windows in this league.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I'm sorry, did you just say the Steelers wouldn't play a guy who isn't 100% fit?

You said is injury was 4-6 recovery if that’s the case yes the would especially with the 1st round investment

 

[Peat]

You said is injury was 4-6 recovery if that’s the case yes the would especially with the 1st round investment

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I must have missed DJ Cam Muth being on ir this season I guess minka is just sitting out for his looks Moore missed a game Wallacehas missed a game this season but not kP

 

[Empoleon8771]

For the people who shit on Pickett non-stop, don't you ever want to talk about literally anything else? I feel like 99% of discussions regarding Pickett on here start because the same people start shitting on him daily.

 

[MrBrightside]

For the people who shit on Pickett non-stop, don't you ever want to talk about literally anything else? I feel like 99% of discussions regarding Pickett on here start because the same people start shitting on him daily.

Man that's a good call. Did you make the same post about those who shit on Tomlin and Canada every day? Let's see....

 

[TooManyHumans]

For the people who shit on Pickett non-stop, don't you ever want to talk about literally anything else? I feel like 99% of discussions regarding Pickett on here start because the same people start shitting on him daily.

I mean, if people would actually stop doing everything they can to excuse when he plays like shit, I wouldn't feel the need to point out that he is actually playing like shit and that is on him. I have never seen another player on the Steelers get kid gloves like this. Anything he does is blamed on others. Doesn't matter that he is the one who is actually out there playing.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I mean, if people would actually stop doing everything they can to excuse when he plays like shit, I wouldn't feel the need to point out that he is actually playing like shit and that is on him. I have never seen another player on the Steelers get kid gloves like this. Anything he does is blamed on others. Doesn't matter that he is the one who is actually out there playing.

Idk about elsewhere, but in here the people defending Pickett are completely willing to criticize him when he screws up. It's just that the same 4 people come in and shit on him daily that people defend him.

The idea of "I have to criticize him because I feel like people are too nice to him" is silly to begin with, but it's also pretty easily demonstrably false (at least here) because people are completely willing to note Pickett's shortcomings here.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Canada kinda reminds me of when Jack Johnson was on the Penguins. Some folks refused to evaluate anyone else because Jack Johnson existed. Same goes with MC.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Canada kinda reminds me of when Jack Johnson was on the Penguins. Some folks refused to evaluate anyone else because Jack Johnson existed. Same goes with MC.

I mean that's valid though? If you had a D partner struggling while playing with JJ, wouldn't it be completely reasonable to say "I'm not willing to say he's bad until he's not playing with JJ"?

The argument being used in here by the people who defend Pickett is almost always "I'm not willing to say he sucks yet until he's put in a better situation". I don't see how that's unreasonable. It's not that he's definitely good, it's that we don't know if he's truly good or bad until he's away from Canada. Hell, I think you can even extend that to Tomlin, who seems more concerned with maintaining a 9-8 record over taking chances to actually be better than that.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

The Steelers goal of being totally risk-averse (not taking ANY chance that might jeopardize the team's short-term outlook) is at 100% odds of developing a QB. You can choose to play it super safe with your (sorta) young QB OR let him find himself and his limits, even... you can't do both at the same time.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I mean that's valid though? If you had a D partner struggling while playing with JJ, wouldn't it be completely reasonable to say "I'm not willing to say he's bad until he's not playing with JJ"?

The argument being used in here by the people who defend Pickett is almost always "I'm not willing to say he sucks yet until he's put in a better situation". I don't see how that's unreasonable. It's not that he's definitely good, it's that we don't know if he's truly good or bad until he's away from Canada.

I don't "truly" know, but I can lean one way or the other. Only Sith deal in absolutes.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Man that's a good call. Did you make the same post about those who shit on Tomlin and Canada every day? Let's see....

Lots of nonsense here.

Tomlin hasn’t won a playoff game in six years, a modern franchise record.

He deserves to be questioned until he proves otherwise.

The idea that coaches and players should try to lose games so they can be replaced by other players and so their jobs can be jeopardized is the dumbest f'ing thesis imaginable.

The very definition of a strawman.

Where was it written they should try to lose?

It’s not hard to grasp the concept that developing a young QB comes with growing pains. And often that can mean losses when a coach lets him work though his mistakes.

It’s not a difficult concept to understand, but I highly suspect certain posters are being obtuse to avoid the Tomlin issue.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't "truly" know, but I can lean one way or the other. Only Sith deal in absolutes.

The people leaning towards he's not it aren't the ones causing the debates in here, though.

The argument at this point seems to be the people convinced he sucks vs the people who want to see him in a better situation before deciding if he's good or not. I don't think there are pretty much any Steelers fans who are convinced he's good at this point, because he has shown nothing to give anyone that level of confidence.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I assume that if Pickett ever actually has a good game (we can hope, anyway), that everyone will be on here saying what a great job Tomlin and Canada did. I mean, if every time Pickett plays shitty it is all on them, I assume the reverse should hold as well.

I have seriously never seen people bend so over backwards for a player who has put so damn little on tape. At some point people are going to have to reckon with the fact that Pickett owns what he puts on tape, and it sucks. And once again, I don't like Canada, think he should have been gone in the off season, but there were a ton of plays to be made in the last game and Pickett not only didn't make them, but most of the time he didn't even try because he was locked onto his primary.

I’ve never seen so many people bend over backwards for a coach who hasn’t done anything meaningful in 14 years.

Let’s ignore that Tomlin last sniffed a playoff win in 2016.

He obviously knows what he’s doing because he eeks out 9s every season.

Mind boggling logic.

 

[ChaosAgent]

The people leaning towards he's not it aren't the ones causing the debates in here, though.

The argument at this point seems to be the people convinced he sucks vs the people who want to see him in a better situation before deciding if he's good or not. I don't think there are pretty much any Steelers fans who are convinced he's good at this point, because he has shown nothing to give anyone that level of confidence.

Even if I'm 70% he's backup caliber, let's still fire Canada and draft a tackle and center. Can't hurt to build a better team.

Jayden Daniels really intrigues me though

 

[MrBrightside]

Lots of nonsense here.

Tomlin hasn’t won a playoff game in six years, a modern franchise record.

He deserves to be questioned until he proves otherwise.


The very definition of a strawman.

Where was it written they should try to lose?

It’s not hard to grasp the concept that Dec look g a young QB comes with growing pains. And often that can mean loses when a coach lets him work though his mistakes.

It’s not a difficult concept to understand, but I highly suspect certain posters are being obtuse to avoid the Tomlin issue.

I'm not even a Tomlin supporter but you literally spend every day on this board bashing him for the last several years. I think a lot of criticism is fair. I think a lot of it overstated. But the idea that because for a few weeks people have questioned Pickett are annoying the delicate sensitivities of Emploeon and we should therefore be required to shut up while your jihad against Tomlin continues unabated is silly. Everyone on here beats every horse to death. For whatever reason the only dead horse that seems to get people sad and angsty is when people pick on Kenny.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

He can not function in a high school offense why should anyone think he can function in a nfl offense the guy was overdue in a weak QB class because of a covid extra year. The entire class is down to howell and purdy who process fadter and read defenses better neither have great arm strength

Even if I'm 70% he's backup caliber, let's still fire Canada and draft a tackle and center. Can't hurt to build a better team.

Jayden Daniels really intrigues me though

Pretty sure people wanted to go with mason or Mitch and skip Qb for this very reason

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'm not even a Tomlin supporter but you literally spend every day on this board bashing him for the last several years. I think a lot of criticism is fair. I think a lot of it overstated. But the idea that because for a few weeks people have questioned Pickett are annoying the delicate sensitivities of Emploeon and we should therefore be required to shut up while your jihad against Tomlin continues unabated is silly. Everyone on here beats every horse to death. For whatever reason the only dead horse that seems to get people sad and angsty is when people pick on Kenny.

And yet he’s not won a playoff game the last several years. Hmmm.

I’ll continue to spend every day questioning him until he proves he can win a playoff game.

I’ve been pretty fair to the guy, and given him way more benefit of the doubt then he deserves.

When you set a modern franchise record for playoff futility, then bring back one of the worst OCs in franchise history afterwards, you think that shows a coach making sound decisions?

Now the offense has the same issues plaguing it since ‘21, but we shouldn’t put blame on Tomlin?

Again, mind numbing logic.