OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: They Killed Kenny!

[Buddy Bizarre]

Someone needs to hypnotise Kenny into thinking every quarter is the 4th quarter.

How a bloke goes from 76 PAT for 3/4 to 101 in the 4th is kind of hilarious and frustrating. It shows he can be good but only when the game is almost over.

This is also a factor of coaching. They loosen the reigns on him during the 4th quarter. Witness the throw down the middle that was called back due to PI. Did they have 1 thrown in the entire game that went inside the numbers outside of that attempt?

 

[bigdaddyk88]

This is also a factor of coaching. They loosen the reigns on him during the 4th quarter. Witness the throw down the middle that was called back due to PI. Did they have 1 thrown in the entire game that went inside the numbers outside of that attempt?

They literally forced KP to throw it over the middle since it was s 2 man route there was ton of open wr over the middle of the field hz ignored

 

[Empoleon8771]

I find it downright bizarre that there are people who defend Tomlin and Canada and solely criticize Pickett. It’s like some people are living in some fantasy land.

How many QBs need to suck under Canada for Steelers fans to maybe realize that Canada is ruining them and they’re not all terrible?

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Whose defending Canada everyone knows he is getting fired at the end of the season he is coaching for his next job
However the guy who touches ball every play has the most effect on the offense. His inability to process and read zones defense is sloppy footwork and lack of accuracy are on 8. Him staring down his primary target is on him. They scrapped the motion canada likes they barely use play action from under center because Kenny isn’t comfortable with it. They want use rpo they want him to use the middle of the field but he is always late
The fact that we are hoping a guy who if everything hits nfl comp is Carr is scary he will never be the best Qb in the division

 

[Peat]

While we're throwing stats around...



Assuming this is reliable, that shows that for the majority of the season, the Steelers have been pretty garbo at getting guys open. One great day against the Rams, one average day against the Raiders, three poor days, and two wowzer bad days.

Things have got better through the season and if they can keep up at a sort of average perfect coverage mark as they have done the last two weeks - albeit against two defences who haven't really troubled too many teams from the looks of it - then there's some potential. Particularly if the run game is going.

But

a) If Pickett is playing hurt, as the numbers suggest, he'll need to heal up before he can take advantage

b) There's evidence pointing to problems for most of the season

 

[Josey Wales]

Whose defending Canada everyone knows he is getting fired at the end of the season he is coaching for his next job
However the guy who touches ball every play has the most effect on the offense. His inability to process and read zones defense is sloppy footwork and lack of accuracy are on 8. Him staring down his primary target is on him. They scrapped the motion canada likes they barely use play action from under center because Kenny isn’t comfortable with it. They want use rpo they want him to use the middle of the field but he is always late
The fact that we are hoping a guy who if everything hits nfl comp is Carr is scary he will never be the best Qb in the division

& HC Cliché' will just hire another f***ing buffoon

 

[Empoleon8771]

I feel like the idea of “if an offense sucks, it’s mostly the QBs fault because he touches the ball the most” is so easily disproven that I don’t even know where to start. Can that be the case? Of course it could. But there are a ton of cases where that isn’t true. And there are a ton of cases where a bad QB can get held up by a great offense around him.

 

[Headshot77]

Pickett needs time to develop. I think Tomlin is running this overly conservative scheme to help him grow. A lot of messages on here are to the effect of "how can we evaluate Kenny when this offense is ****". I think this offense is the way it is because:

A. Tomlin likes low-risk football
B. They don't want to throw a 25 year old QB into the fire.

QBs take time to develop and Pickett clearly needs more development time. Having a simple-ass playbook, with a run-heavy game plan, allows Pickett to grow into the role of a starting NFL QB. What were seeing here is organizational patience.

Maybe we upgrade the O line these next two seasons, Pickett develops a bit, and we can open up the playbook and start slinging deep balls in like 2025. Until then Tomlin wants to grind out bullshit wins to establish winning tendencies.

Basically, Steelers fans have patience for Pickett because the team as a whole is still in a rebuilding phase. We don't expect immediate success. Those of us who aren't mongoloids don't expect us to contend for a SB. This shit takes time and TBH I like what I've seen in aggregate from this team.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I just can't understand that argument whatsoever when we have a literally golden example of how detrimental coaching can be to a QB within the past few years: Trevor Lawrence. Lawrence was viewed as a generational QB prospect coming out of Clemson, yet he had a terrible rookie year with the Jaguars. He had below a 60% completion%, led the league in interceptions, averaged only 214 yards per game and had a QBR lower than what Pickett has had in the NFL. The only QBs that were worse than Lawrence in his rookie year were Darnold, Wilson and Fields.

Did he just suck? No, Urban Meyer was just literally cancer. Urban Meyer was such a toxic and cancerous coach that he managed to turn a generational QB prospect into one of the worst starting QBs in football. What happened after Meyer got fired? Lawrence made the pro bowl the next year with wildly improved stats on a wildly improved team.

Lawrence went from 28th in QBR in his rookie year under Meyer to 17th the next year. Based on PFR's "Rate", he went from 29th to 9th. He went from being tied for 24th to 6th in interception%. He has kinda stagnated around this level this year, but his results are still consistently good across the board and the Jags are a solid team.

I'm beating a dead horse but I just fundamentally can't understand how people believe some of the stuff they post in here.

 

[ChaosAgent]

We could have made an awesome case for Rudolph as QB in 2020 or subsequent years (even 2022) with unlimited ability to handwave.

And maybe we should have done just that.
I hope Kenny improves and takes a big step forward once freed of Matt Canada.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

This is also a factor of coaching. They loosen the reigns on him during the 4th quarter. Witness the throw down the middle that was called back due to PI. Did they have 1 thrown in the entire game that went inside the numbers outside of that attempt?

The irony of Tomlin saying they need more from him. His own player called his dumb ass coaching out and is in trouble for speaking the truth.

Pittsburgh coaching is absolutely shit all across the board in all pro teams.

 

[Empoleon8771]

And on the point of Canada, he has literally never made a good offense in either college or the NFL as an OC. Just look at his resume and how his teams ranked in points/game in his college career:

2007: 38th of 119 teams in CFB at Indiana
2008: 97th of 119 teams in CFB at Indiana
2009: 84th of 120 teams in CFB at Indiana
2010: 56th of 120 teams in CFB at Indiana
2011: 12th of 120 teams in CFB at Northern Illinois, 12th from the year before and 13th the year after
2012: 60th of 124 teams in CFB at Wisconsin, 6th the year before and 27th the year after
2013: 98th of 125 teams in CFB at NC State
2014: 57th of 128 teams in CFB at NC state
2015: 41st of 128 teams in CFB at NC state
2016: 68th of 128 teams in CFB at Pitt, 46th the year before and 10th the year after
2017: 76th of 130 teams in CFB at LSU, 68th the year before and 38th the year after

Then in 2018, he was Maryland's head coach and led them to a 5-7 record and 69th in points/game. 3 of his 4 1-year stops had teams where their offense was better before and after he left than when he was there, and the 4th was just equal in all of those. The only place he actually showed any progress in improving offensively is at NC State.

Frankly it's bizarre that he's a NFL OC to begin with, let alone one people argue against being the primary cause of problems with this offense. The dude is a middling college OC at best.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

The irony of Tomlin saying they need more from him. His own player called his dumb ass coaching out and is in trouble for speaking the truth.

Pittsburgh coaching is absolutely shit all across the board in all pro teams.

And yet the o line looks so much better and chuks cost himself 11 million dollars cause he’s getting cut instead of seeing year 2 of that extension because his play was below the line. How you gonna complain about running plays when they called 4 the entire 2nd half against jacksonville down 10 he was getting his but kicked

 

[xlm34]

And on the point of Canada, he has literally never made a good offense in either college or the NFL as an OC. Just look at his resume and how his teams ranked in points/game in his college career:

2007: 38th of 119 teams in CFB at Indiana
2008: 97th of 119 teams in CFB at Indiana
2009: 84th of 120 teams in CFB at Indiana
2010: 56th of 120 teams in CFB at Indiana
2011: 12th of 120 teams in CFB at Northern Illinois, 12th from the year before and 13th the year after
2012: 60th of 124 teams in CFB at Wisconsin, 6th the year before and 27th the year after
2013: 98th of 125 teams in CFB at NC State
2014: 57th of 128 teams in CFB at NC state
2015: 41st of 128 teams in CFB at NC state
2016: 68th of 128 teams in CFB at Pitt, 46th the year before and 10th the year after
2017: 76th of 130 teams in CFB at LSU, 68th the year before and 38th the year after

Then in 2018, he was Maryland's head coach and led them to a 5-7 record and 69th in points/game. 3 of his 4 1-year stops had teams where their offense was better before and after he left than when he was there, and the 4th was just equal in all of those. The only place he actually showed any progress in improving offensively is at NC State.

Frankly it's bizarre that he's a NFL OC to begin with, let alone one people argue against being the primary cause of problems with this offense. The dude is a middling college OC at best.

Canada sucks but to say he wasn’t a good OC at Pitt is legitimately bullshit. Your numbers aren’t accurate — they were 10th in the country with Canada which is amazing for Pitt.

I think there was a point where he was legitimately a creative offensive coach, but that time is long gone.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Canada sucks but to say he wasn’t a good OC at Pitt is legitimately bullshit. Your numbers aren’t accurate — they were 10th in the country with Canada which is amazing for Pitt.

I think there was a point where he was legitimately a creative offensive coach, but that time is long gone.

I mixed up the years, they were 68th in 2015, 10th in 2016 and then 101st in 2017. The numbers I provided were 2014, 2015 and 2016 on accident, my mistake.

With that being said, I don't think 1 great year at Pitt (that they out-performed in 2021 in Pickett's last year at Pitt) outweighs the rest of his painfully middling other results. You say that's "amazing for Pitt", but they were 3rd in CFB in points/game in 2021 in Pickett's last year at Pitt with Mark Whipple. And I think there are approximately 0 Steelers fans who want Whipple as the Steelers OC.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I mixed up the years, they were 68th in 2015, 10th in 2016 and then 101st in 2017. The numbers I provided were 2014, 2015 and 2016 on accident, my mistake.

With that being said, I don't think 1 great year at Pitt (that they out-performed in 2021 in Pickett's last year at Pitt) outweighs the rest of his painfully middling other results. You say that's "amazing for Pitt", but they were 3rd in CFB in points/game in 2021 in Pickett's last year at Pitt.

Well, when you have a 23 year old good NFL prospect at QB and the best receiver in the country, that will happen.

Canada was woefully unqualified coming here. That was/is apparent to most people, and we agree on that. I can't wait until he is removed.

 

[Peat]

Pickett needs time to develop. I think Tomlin is running this overly conservative scheme to help him grow. A lot of messages on here are to the effect of "how can we evaluate Kenny when this offense is ****". I think this offense is the way it is because:

A. Tomlin likes low-risk football
B. They don't want to throw a 25 year old QB into the fire.

QBs take time to develop and Pickett clearly needs more development time. Having a simple-ass playbook, with a run-heavy game plan, allows Pickett to grow into the role of a starting NFL QB. What were seeing here is organizational patience.

Maybe we upgrade the O line these next two seasons, Pickett develops a bit, and we can open up the playbook and start slinging deep balls in like 2025. Until then Tomlin wants to grind out bullshit wins to establish winning tendencies.

Basically, Steelers fans have patience for Pickett because the team as a whole is still in a rebuilding phase. We don't expect immediate success. Those of us who aren't mongoloids don't expect us to contend for a SB. This shit takes time and TBH I like what I've seen in aggregate from this team.

I like this post. I'm not sure I agree this is what's happening, but it's plausible.

The big fear with this scenario is that while you don't want to chuck inexperienced QBs into the fire, they do need some. That Tomlin is going to stunt Pickett's growth. But there's still half a season left before we even get to the next one. I also think going too slow and not establishing Pickett as a legit guy before his QB contract is up might be fatal too.

But we'll see. Hopefully Tomlin keeps pushing evolution. Even with Pickett being a bit crap, I think this last two weeks has seen the offence evolve and look more threatening.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I mixed up the years, they were 68th in 2015, 10th in 2016 and then 101st in 2017. The numbers I provided were 2014, 2015 and 2016 on accident, my mistake.

With that being said, I don't think 1 great year at Pitt (that they out-performed in 2021 in Pickett's last year at Pitt) outweighs the rest of his painfully middling other results. You say that's "amazing for Pitt", but they were 3rd in CFB in points/game in 2021 in Pickett's last year at Pitt with Mark Whipple. And I think there are approximately 0 Steelers fans who want Whipple as the Steelers OC.

Canada has literally done shit since he left Pitt, so who cares if you mixed up the years TBTH.

He went to LSU and lasted less than a year, with Orgeron calling Canada "a mistake" (imagine Tomlin ever admitting that).

He was basically out of football when Tomlin came calling.

He had zero qualifications to be an NFL OC, and has had zero success after 2.5 years in this league.

First it was Roth's fault. Then MT. Now it's KP.

Maybe one can make the argument that MT and KP are part of the problem, but Roth literally lit up the scorboard once he started calling plays in the second half.

I'm tired of hearing the excuses for why the offense was literally setting first half franchise marks for futility with Canada calling plays, vs Roth calling plays, with the same personnel, agt the same f***ing team, and moving the ball with ease.

The obvious is the obvious.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Roth was the country song I ain’t as good as i once was by Keith he couldn’t gunslinger his way for 4 QTs but he could summon it up on occasion even with a shot arm

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Steelers QB Kenny Pickett playing it extra cautious with the football

Kenny Pickett isn't putting up great numbers but he's taking care of the football.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Roth was the country song I ain’t as good as i once was by Keith he couldn’t gunslinger his way for 4 QTs but he could summon it up on occasion even with a shot arm

Fascinating how he could summon it when he was the one calling the plays.

It’s almost like he knew what to call and Canada didn’t.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Fascinating how he could summon it when he was the one calling the plays.

It’s almost like he knew what to call and Canada didn’t.

He called plays and went no huddle against kc in the play offs what happened the only person who didn’t know he wasn’t the gunslinger anymore was Ben he wasn’t going down field wheb he was calling plays and he wasn’t using Canada play book

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

He called plays and went no huddle against kc in the play offs what happened the only person who didn’t know he wasn’t the gunslinger anymore was Ben he wasn’t going down field wheb he was calling plays and he wasn’t using Canada play book

You aren’t even making any sense.

I went over this two years ago and I can’t make it anymore simple:

Canada’s offense, with him calling plays - Steelers set a franchise record record for first half futility that dated back 72 years.

Roth calling plays, drawing shit up in the dirt on the fly - moved the ball, scored points.

Your whole deal back then was to make up excuse after excuse for Canada, and insist he just needed a mobile QB.

Two years later, Steelers have a couple of mobile QBs, yet the offense has been so bad that they go into desperation mode and put Canada on the sideline.

It’s ok to admit Tomlin f***ed up in a massive, anyone could have seen this shit coming, kind of way.

 

[Rossi Rat]

Like you Mark, I don't think Kenny is the guy. However, this team has gone nowhere for far too long with Tomlin at the helm. Tomlin is a good coach, but I think we need a fresh voice and someone who understands how the modern game is played...like EB

Not Mark but glad you get it with Pickett. And look at everyone replying to his tweets - some still defending him (and they have to be mostly pitt fans) but more and more people are finally catching on. Pickett has had numerous INTs dropped too.

You all know how this is going to go, and you’re kidding yourself if not: chickens will come home to roost. This duct tape defense and a run game which admittedly has momentum won’t keep them in *every* game. Pickett will have to win at least a few critical games for this team to get to the playoffs and actually win a game in the playoffs for the first time in years. Then - wham! A pick! Wham! Anuddah pick! Wham - you get the point.

Can’t wait to refer to this post when I’m right.

And Tomlin sucks too. Didn’t deny that.

 

[TimmyD]

Actually Mac Jones is better than Pickett in pretty much every metric there is other than INT’s. And Mac sucks.

While also playing a much harder schedule