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OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: They Killed Kenny!

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DanielPlainview said:
QB rating of 81.1 vs 82.0. Friggin LOL
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The fact that Pickett is basically the same as a guy who couldn't even get an NFL job as a #2 QB this year probably isn't the great argument you think it is.

DanielPlainview said:
Only thing you can do is shake your head at people who want a QB’s year 7 in year 2
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We've done this before, but let's do it again. List all good NFL QB's who've been as bad as Pickett their first 25 games. I'll spot you Drew Brees. Go ahead and name all the others.
 
MrBrightside said:
The fact that Pickett is basically the same as a guy who couldn't even get an NFL job as a #2 QB this year probably isn't the great argument you think it is.


We've done this before, but let's do it again. List all good NFL QB's who've been as bad as Pickett their first 25 games. I'll spot you Drew Brees. Go ahead and name all the others.
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My argument is not that Pickett is a good QB NOW but that he CAN BE with better coaching. I’m not sitting here saying he needs to be shitcanned because he doesn’t look like 2010 Aaron Rodgers.

Well most of the best QBs of the past 25 years are within a few QB rating of Pickett this year:

After first 2 seasons as starter:
Eli Manning: 76.4
Josh Allen: 78.2
Peyton Manning - 80.2
Andrew Luck: 81.5
Matt Ryan: 84.3
Matt Stafford: 84.7
Jalen Hurts: 84.7
Tom Brady (years 2 and 3 with Patriots): 86.0
Philip Rivers (years 3 and 4 with Chargers): 87.2
Tua Tagovailoa: 88.8
Carson Palmer: 90.2
Ben Roethlisberger: 98.3
Aaron Rodgers (years 4 and 5 with Packers): 98.5
Russell Wilson: 100.6
Patrick Mahomes (years 2 and 3 with Chiefs): 110.0


It appears to me that Steelers fans have fallen for the trap of thinking Ben's start to his career is somehow a benchmark or normal when it was actually completely abnormal... absurdly rare... not at all to be expected.
 
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Rudolph had a substantially better OC and notably better OL in 2019 compared to Pickett now, and even with that, he wasn't even better statistically than Pickett.

Put Rudolph in and he's getting eaten alive in this offense.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
Rudolph had a substantially better OC and notably better OL in 2019 compared to Pickett now, and even with that, he wasn't even better statistically than Pickett.

Put Rudolph in and he's getting eaten alive in this offense.
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KP is barely getting touched with this o line now for has crappy as Canada is he has given layups to kp
 
DanielPlainview said:
My argument is not that Pickett is a good QB NOW but that he CAN BE with better coaching. I’m not sitting here saying he needs to be shitcanned because he doesn’t look like 2010 Aaron Rodgers.

Well most of the best QBs of the past 25 years are within a few QB rating of Pickett this year:

After first 2 seasons as starter:
Eli Manning: 76.4
Josh Allen: 78.2
Peyton Manning - 80.2
Andrew Luck: 81.5
Matt Ryan: 84.3
Matt Stafford: 84.7
Jalen Hurts: 84.7
Tom Brady (years 2 and 3 with Patriots): 86.0
Philip Rivers (years 3 and 4 with Chargers): 87.2
Tua Tagovailoa: 88.8
Carson Palmer: 90.2
Ben Roethlisberger: 98.3
Aaron Rodgers (years 4 and 5 with Packers): 98.5
Russell Wilson: 100.6
Patrick Mahomes (years 2 and 3 with Chiefs): 110.0


It appears to me that Steelers fans have fallen for the trap of thinking Ben's start to his career is somehow a benchmark or normal when it was actually completely abnormal, absurdly rare, and not at all to be expected.
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And how many of those Quaterbacks had Canada as an offensive coordinator?

That is the issue. Canada adds a whole other level of murkiness to the evaluation. And setting back any quarterback's development by years if not forever.
 
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DanielPlainview said:
My argument is not that Pickett is a good QB NOW but that he CAN BE with better coaching. I’m not sitting here saying he needs to be shitcanned because he doesn’t look like 2010 Aaron Rodgers.

Well most of them are within a few QB rating of Pickett.

After first 2 seasons as starter:
Peyton Manning - 80.2
Tom Brady (years 2 and 3 with Patriots): 86.0
Philip Rivers (actually years 3 and 4 with Chargers): 87.2
Ben Roethlisberger: 98.3
Eli Manning: 76.4
Carson Palmer: 90.2
Aaron Rodgers (years 4 and 5 with Packers): 98.5
Andrew Luck: 81.5
Matt Stafford: 84.7
Matt Ryan: 84.3
Russell Wilson: 100.6
Patrick Mahomes (years 2 and 3 with Chiefs): 110.0
Jalen Hurts: 84.7
Tua Tagovailoa: 88.8
Josh Allen: 78.2
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I myself, like to go by production. What QB in the past 25 years has thrown 12 TDs in his first 22 games and gone on to be even a decent QB? I believe we came down to Drew Brees......and

Josh Allen in his second season, which every Yinzer repeatedly brings up was like the worst season ever and OMG was it bad. He had 20 Passing TDs, 9 Int and 9 rushing TDs. That is production Mr Pulings, that is production.
 
Goalie_Bob said:
I myself, like to go by production. What QB in the past 25 years has thrown 12 TDs in his first 22 games and gone on to be even a decent QB? I believe we came down to Drew Brees......and

Josh Allen in his second season, which every Yinzer repeatedly brings up was like the worst season ever and OMG was it bad. He had 20 Passing TDs, 9 Int and 9 rushing TDs. That is production Mr Pulings, that is production.
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Alex Smith had a 19-31 TD-INT ratio in the first 32 games of his career yet he had a long career as a starting by QB. In his first 22 games, he had a 14-25 ratio TD-INT ratio.
 
bigdaddyk88 said:
KP is barely getting touched with this o line now for has crappy as Canada is he has given layups to kp
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"Barely getting touched" hahahahahahahaha
Wow...you have gotten de-pantsed in this thread more than Tomlin in his playoff games

I'm glad we're not allowed to fire our OC

www.espn.com

Bills fire OC Dorsey after MNF loss, tab J. Brady

The Bills have fired offensive coordinator Ken Dorsey and named Joe Brady as his interim replacement.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 
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Goalie_Bob said:
I myself, like to go by production. What QB in the past 25 years has thrown 12 TDs in his first 22 games and gone on to be even a decent QB? I believe we came down to Drew Brees......and

Josh Allen in his second season, which every Yinzer repeatedly brings up was like the worst season ever and OMG was it bad. He had 20 Passing TDs, 9 Int and 9 rushing TDs. That is production Mr Pulings, that is production.
Click to expand...

None of them were in such a hapless coaching situation and I think that matters a ton for a young QB.
 
Rudolph was on a better trajectory in 2019 before he got knocked out cold against Baltimore. After that, he was dreadful.

If KP could progress to that level, and I think he can, we will be in good shape the rest of this year.
 
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Buddy Bizarre said:
"Barely getting touched" hahahahahahahaha
Wow...you have gotten de-pantsed in this thread more than Tomlin in his playoff games

I'm glad we're not allowed to fire our OC

www.espn.com

Bills fire OC Dorsey after MNF loss, tab J. Brady

The Bills have fired offensive coordinator Ken Dorsey and named Joe Brady as his interim replacement.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
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They fired the oc because Allen is walking turnover machine they lost to Zack Wilson Mac Jones and a washed up Willson if they don’t have 12 guys on the field last night he isn’t fired today

Empoleon8771 said:
Pickett has a sack rate of 6.6% compared to 5.0% for Rudolph in 2019.
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Pickett sacks himself
 
Empoleon8771 said:
I like how you come up with anything to criticize Pickett even if the things you're saying are easily proven false.
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It's anything to deflect from Tomlin's shoddy record and processes. It's not just KP he criticizes. It's all the players when things go poorly.
I've challenged him to come up with a post he's made that's been critical of Tomlin. He can't because it doesn't exist.

Tomlin ballwashers are an interesting bunch.
 
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Talking about Pickett has been reduced to drivel at this point. I think the pro-Pickett crowd is much more logical. No one is saying he has been a Pro Bowl caliber player, but it's super hard to see how good a guy is when the plan he is working with has been openly mocked by basically everyone who knows anything about football. Kenny has work to do, but I don't think anything he fails at is something that can be worked on. Only thing with him that isn't going to change is his arm isn't elite.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
"Pickett is barely getting touched, but the stats that show he is getting sacked a lot are his fault because he sucks"
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Yes he runs into sacks the only sack Greenbay had was because he rolled put left. If he gets the ball out or improves his pocket presence he would have less sacks its the same thing he did in college

JTG said:
Talking about Pickett has been reduced to drivel at this point. I think the pro-Pickett crowd is much more logical. No one is saying he has been a Pro Bowl caliber player, but it's super hard to see how good a guy is when the plan he is working with has been openly mocked by basically everyone who knows anything about football. Kenny has work to do, but I don't think anything he fails at is something that can be worked on. Only thing with him that isn't going to change is his arm isn't elite.
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He isn’t even replacement level stop with the excuses
 
Buddy Bizarre said:
It's anything to deflect from Tomlin's shoddy record and processes. It's not just KP he criticizes. It's all the players when things go poorly.
I've challenged him to come up with a post he's made that's been critical of Tomlin. He can't because it doesn't exist.

Tomlin ballwashers are an interesting bunch.
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In fairness the vast majority of NFL fans and media love Tomlin. Folks like BDK are only a minority on this board and some other corners of the internet.
 
If anyone wants to explain to me how Pickett ran into this sack and it was his fault...



... because what I'm seeing is a completely free blitzer gets to him, Pickett dodges him, and elects to try and escape the collapse pocket behind the OL he's got only Seumalo kind of stops playing and his guy gets to him.

And yeah, you could argue that if Pickett had seen that Daniels and Jones had pushed their guys out, he could have just gone straight and found open grass. I dunno how possible that is for him to see, how possible it is for him to make that move.

But if that isn't Pickett staying in the pocket until flushed, I don't know what is. And Seumalo just totally loses the guy who gets to him, no? Turns around to see what's happening and the Packer just keeps going?
 
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JTG said:
Talking about Pickett has been reduced to drivel at this point. I think the pro-Pickett crowd is much more logical. No one is saying he has been a Pro Bowl caliber player, but it's super hard to see how good a guy is when the plan he is working with has been openly mocked by basically everyone who knows anything about football. Kenny has work to do, but I don't think anything he fails at is something that can be worked on. Only thing with him that isn't going to change is his arm isn't elite.
Click to expand...

It’s frustrating as f*** because this was completely avoidable by firing Canada.

You remove one well known variable that is an issue and then see what happens, and if things keep going south, you have further isolated it’s a KP issue.
 
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Peat said:
If anyone wants to explain to me how Pickett ran into this sack and it was his fault...



... because what I'm seeing is a completely free blitzer gets to him, Pickett dodges him, and elects to try and escape the collapse pocket behind the OL he's got only Seumalo kind of stops playing and his guy gets to him.

And yeah, you could argue that if Pickett had seen that Daniels and Jones had pushed their guys out, he could have just gone straight and found open grass. I dunno how possible that is for him to see, how possible it is for him to make that move.

But if that isn't Pickett staying in the pocket until flushed, I don't know what is. And Seumalo just totally loses the guy who gets to him, no? Turns around to see what's happening and the Packer just keeps going?
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Because he left pocket and went left. The article from dk site broke it down if he comes off of heyward he sees a wide open wr 30 yards down field instead he bails out left and gets sacked
 
Depends on how much stock you place in PFF, but earlier in the year they had him at fault for 8 out of 11 sacks. I don’t subscribe so I don’t know what those numbers look like now.

I actually think he’s improved his pocket presence these past couple games but I also think there’s some merit to the idea that he occasionally makes his line look worse than they are and gets himself into trouble.
 
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