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OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: They Killed Kenny!

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Washington and Houston have two of the worst OL’s in football yet manage to be the top two passing offenses with grizzled veterans like Sam Howell and CJ Stroud playing QB.
 
ChaosAgent said:
In fairness the vast majority of NFL fans and media love Tomlin. Folks like BDK are only a minority on this board and some other corners of the internet.
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You're right
But I can't take anything this dude posts seriously because it's dripping with biasedness. He's like MT's personal fluffer

I've criticized Tomlin and other particular players plenty. But I've also defended Tomlin when and where warranted.
 
bigdaddyk88 said:
Yes he runs into sacks the only sack Greenbay had was because he rolled put left. If he gets the ball out or improves his pocket presence he would have less sacks its the same thing he did in college


He isn’t even replacement level stop with the excuses
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You keep arguing a point that is nonresponsive to those who are 'disagreeing' with you.

As if anyone who is 'defending' KP is ignoring the issues you keep bringing up as proof of your position.

The question is not where KP is now, or more importantly, if anyone accepts where he is developmentally right now.

The question is where he could, or could not, be in one, two five years.

Can he grow?

Good luck anyone answering that one definitively.

THAT is the crux of the counterargument those who have been 'defending' KP have been saying. The answer of those 'defending' KP is maybe.

KP as he is right now is unacceptable. KP next year and beyond, I am not comfortable saying definitively. Are you?

And that is the worst sin of Tomlin and his band of morons and that philosophy. Not only is it a system that can eek out a decent record but has zero chance of winning a championship, but
it makes answering that question, about KP and most of the other players on offense, especially skill players, much more difficult.
 
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Mr Jiggyfly said:
It’s frustrating as f*** because this was completely avoidable by firing Canada.

You remove one well known variable that is an issue and then see what happens, and if things keep going south, you have further isolated it’s a KP issue.
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Actually most people are saying canada on the side line has called 3 straight great games
 
xlm34 said:
Depends on how much stock you place in PFF, but earlier in the year they had him at fault for 8 out of 11 sacks. I don’t subscribe so I don’t know what those numbers look like now.

I actually think he’s improved his pocket presence these past couple games but I also think there’s some merit to the idea that he occasionally makes his line look worse than they are and gets himself into trouble.
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That's a fair point. I think KP's pocket presence absolutely sucked out loud until a few games ago. He was seeing ghosts, but has improved recently.

I mean it's no coincidence that the line's play has gone up since Jones has been inserted.

But in the clip posted above, I have it clocked at 2 seconds before KP is getting that free rusher. Two seconds...not sure how anyone isn't going to start moving around with that short of timeframe
 
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Buddy Bizarre said:
That's a fair point. I think KP's pocket presence absolutely sucked out loud until a few games ago. He was seeing ghosts, but has improved recently.

I mean it's no coincidence that the line's play has gone up since Jones has been inserted.

But in the clip posted above, I have it clocked at 2 seconds before KP is getting that free rusher. Two seconds...not sure how anyone isn't going to start moving around with that short of timeframe
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Average time in the pocket is 2.5 that’s why processing and reading defenses and throwing with anticipation are so important
 
Buddy Bizarre said:
That's a fair point. I think KP's pocket presence absolutely sucked out loud until a few games ago. He was seeing ghosts, but has improved recently.

I mean it's no coincidence that the line's play has gone up since Jones has been inserted.

But in the clip posted above, I have it clocked at 2 seconds before KP is getting that free rusher. Two seconds...not sure how anyone isn't going to start moving around with that short of timeframe
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Sometimes the defense gets home and you tip your cap to them. The time in pocket is a distribution, not an iron law.

There have been plenty of games where Watt/HighSmith wreaked more havoc than the opponent defense.
 
bigdaddyk88 said:
Because he left pocket and went left. The article from dk site broke it down if he comes off of heyward he sees a wide open wr 30 yards down field instead he bails out left and gets sacked
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That article highlights Johnson when Pickett is off balance from dodging the free blitzer and he's got a DL about six inches from him. That's not an open throw. Maybe Johnson is open before that but neither the text nor the video edit shows when they think that is.

If you pause the video at the 2 second mark, you can see the blitzer is free and past Dan Moore and Pickett has to do something in the next second or get sacked. At that point Johnson is on the 25 line still going through the route, his cover is, what, 4 yards away with eyes on... people want to tell me if he passes it right there and there it's anything more than a combat catch at best?

And that he doesn't have to make that choice if the OL doesn't let a blitzer straight through and that the pocket is gone in a second from then?

I mean, maybe Pickett could make better choices there. But the OL absolutely lets a guy through as fast as the guy can run. Pickett doesn't have to run into a guy to get into trouble. Pickett has to run away from a guy.

xlm34 said:
Depends on how much stock you place in PFF, but earlier in the year they had him at fault for 8 out of 11 sacks. I don’t subscribe so I don’t know what those numbers look like now.

I actually think he’s improved his pocket presence these past couple games but I also think there’s some merit to the idea that he occasionally makes his line look worse than they are and gets himself into trouble.
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Everyone knows Pickett has happy feet and iffy pocket presence. So yeah, there's almost definitely merit to that idea.

But it seems equally obvious that the OL is often hugely at fault. Which a) is awful development for Pickett outgrowing happy feet and b) awful for performance. It's a toxic mix.
 
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bigdaddyk88 said:
Actually most people are saying canada on the side line has called 3 straight great games
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No dude, he's called competent games.

The bar for offense in Pgh is so low now, that a decent offense game passes for great.

I call it the Tomlin Purgatory effect.

Hell of a nasty drug.

Who knew you could fire an OC.

Dang, you can even fire them mid-season!

www.espn.com

Bills fire OC Dorsey after MNF loss, tab J. Brady

The Bills have fired offensive coordinator Ken Dorsey and named Joe Brady as his interim replacement.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 
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I watch Russell W. have "happy feet last night" and he had about 20 drop backs with a 3+ second clean pocket (something KP hasn't had all year).

Put any qb behind this line and with this coaching staff and show me the probowl'r.

They also greatly f'd up their WR room adding Robinson, poor scouting. I loved the signing, but the dude is/was cooked. With that being the case, their WR's are in the bottom 3rd. Add in the fact that they don't utilize Austin in space........it's a gigantic turd sandwich.
 
Fiji Water said:
EB has turned Sam Howell into the leading passer in the league. Can we please fire Tomlin and hire this dude?
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Or: Pickett just isn’t as good as Sam Howell. Canada realizes how awful he is which is why the game plan is what it is. If he actually had to make tough throws he would lead the league in INT’s. And every backup in the NFL, heck third stringer even (Rudolph for one) would be 6-3 if they were in this Steelers offense/game plan.
 
Jaded-Fan said:
You keep arguing a point that is nonresponsive to those who are 'disagreeing' with you.

As if anyone who is 'defending' KP is ignoring the issues you keep bringing up as proof of your position.

The question is not where KP is now, or more importantly, if anyone accepts where he is developmentally right now.

The question is where he could, or could not, be in one, two five years.

Can he grow?

Good luck anyone answering that one definitively.

THAT is the crux of the counterargument those who have been 'defending' KP have been saying. The answer of those 'defending' KP is maybe.

KP as he is right now is unacceptable. KP next year and beyond, I am not comfortable saying definitively. Are you?

And that is the worst sin of Tomlin and his band of morons and that philosophy. Not only is it a system that can eek out a decent record but has zero chance of winning a championship, but
it makes answering that question, about KP and most of the other players on offense, especially skill players, much more difficult.
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well he has to defend Canada because he blows HC Oswald Bates
 
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Rossi Rat said:
Or: Pickett just isn’t as good as Sam Howell. Canada realizes how awful he is which is why the game plan is what it is. If he actually had to make tough throws he would lead the league in INT’s. And every backup in the NFL, heck third stringer even (Rudolph for one) would be 6-3 if they were in this Steelers offense/game plan.
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Like you Mark, I don't think Kenny is the guy. However, this team has gone nowhere for far too long with Tomlin at the helm. Tomlin is a good coach, but I think we need a fresh voice and someone who understands how the modern game is played...like EB
 
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Fiji Water said:
EB has turned Sam Howell into the leading passer in the league. Can we please fire Tomlin and hire this dude?
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Howell is a much fast processor and reads defenses better and even Washington not sure he is the long term answer. He hold the ball and takes a ton of sacks
 
As reading comprehension goes, answering "Gods I wish we had Eric Bieniemy, look how well he's doing with Howell" with "But Howell is better than Pickett" is a big old fail.

And also quite revealing of an unhealthy obsession.

And a complete failure to grasp the point that maybe it would be nice to have a guy who gets the best out of QBs rather than the worst.

I too wish we had Eric Bieniemy.
 
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Someone needs to hypnotise Kenny into thinking every quarter is the 4th quarter.

How a bloke goes from 76 PAT for 3/4 to 101 in the 4th is kind of hilarious and frustrating. It shows he can be good but only when the game is almost over.
 
Honour Over Glory said:
Someone needs to hypnotise Kenny into thinking every quarter is the 4th quarter.

How a bloke goes from 76 PAT for 3/4 to 101 in the 4th is kind of hilarious and frustrating. It shows he can be good but only when the game is almost over.
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He stops playing not to lose then. It's pure confidence with him and it will come with time. Confidence are why he gets happy feet also. We watched this progression at Pitt. He is going to take a bit longer than your normal 1st round pick (because he wasn't actually a first round talent).
 
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