OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: They Killed Kenny!

[Josey Wales]

Pitt AD Heather Lyke Backs Pat Narduzzi

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Ben's shoulder was shot and he was completely immobile in his last year. We were both critical of the scheme and Ben's physical state at the time. We all knew he was washed.

If Ben was actually Ben, the offense would have produced due to the talent. If his normal deep throws were a legit threat, everything would have opened up despite Canada.

Unfortunately, the only qb the Steelers have with plus NFL arm talent is also dumb as f***.

Kenny threw for 126 yards. It is good that he didn't turn it over but you need more than that even from a game manager in the modern NFL.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

If you don't think that KP can develop and grow, yes move on.

Others have looked horrible for two or three years before taking a step to the next level. It is fairly common in fact. Rare is the quarterbacks who step right in and star.

No one can develop or grow under Canada/Tomlin and their brilliant offensive system.

Do you see the problem?

How can you really evaluate under these circumstances.

At best you can speculate and whichever opinion you have no one can reasonably and definitively argue otherwise.

 

[TooManyHumans]

Chalk Talk: Don't throw in the towel yet, but concern for Kenny Pickett is valid

FORNEY, Texas -- It's nowhere near time to give up on the guy. But, Kenny Pickett is now nine games into his second season, and there's still reason to be concerned about his progress.

www.dkpittsburghsports.com

Couldn't be more clear on some of those plays that the issue was Pickett, not the play calling. Canada sucks but the QB is worse right now. Gotta hope it is the ribs because Pickett is playing scared and doesn't even try to make plays but just looks to check it down.

If you don't think that KP can develop and grow, yes move on.

Others have looked horrible for two or three years before taking a step to the next level. It is fairly common in fact. Rare is the quarterbacks who step right in and star.

No one can develop or grow under Canada/Tomlin and their brilliant offensive system.

Do you see the problem?

How can you really evaluate under these circumstances.

At best you can speculate and whichever opinion you have no one can reasonably and definitively argue otherwise.

There were plays to be made in the passing game all game long. Guys were getting open. Pickett locks on his primary and either throws it there or checks it down (assuming the primary was not the checkdown, in which case he is getting the ball come hell or high water, see the forced ball to Warren in the flat with DJ and Pickens each with a step on their guys).

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Ben's shoulder was shot and he was completely immobile in his last year. We were both critical of the scheme and Ben's physical state at the time. We all knew he was washed.

If Ben was actually Ben, the offense would have produced due to the talent. If his normal deep throws were a legit threat, everything would have opened up despite Canada.

Unfortunately, the only qb the Steelers have with plus NFL arm talent is also dumb as f***.

Kenny threw for 126 yards. It is good that he didn't turn it over but you need more than that even from a game manager in the modern NFL.

Here's the question that no one has asked: if you just want your QB to be a game manager, why did you need to spend a 1st Rounder on him?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Couldn't be more clear on some of those plays that the issue was Pickett, not the play calling. Canada sucks but the QB is worse right now. Gotta hope it is the ribs because Pickett is playing scared and doesn't even try to make plays but just looks to check it down.


There were plays to be made in the passing game all game long. Guys were getting open. Pickett locks on his primary and either throws it there or checks it down (assuming the primary was not the checkdown, in which case he is getting the ball come hell or high water, see the forced ball to Warren in the flat with DJ and Pickens each with a step on their guys).

Is he playing scared because Tomlin has made him into a "don't turn the ball over and let our D win it" robot?

Or is it something else?

Given all the beat guys have said it's been pounded into KP's head to play safe, how I saw the offense under Roth and MT keeping the passing game outside the numbers, and MT's words he was being told over and over to play safe, I'm leaning heavily towards option A.

If it's reality, then the same thing will happen to the next QB they draft, and so on and so forth.

Hence the reason I keep empathizing the problem here is Tomlin, the guy with 0 playoff wins the last six years.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I think this has been discussed, but why isn't anyone calling out Austin for this?

You have a secondary that's decimated by injury so you're down to practice squad guys. For the game winning play, you want to play MAN?

Minkah Fitzpatrick Called Game – Literally – With Audible From Sideline On Game-Winning INT

The Pittsburgh Steelers decided not to place S Minkah Fitzpatrick on the Reserve/Injured List, hopeful that he would be able to return without needing to miss the full four games that would have been required had they done so. He’s only missed two games so far, and there is as yet no indication...

steelersdepot.com

 

[TooManyHumans]

Is he playing scared because Tomlin has made him into a "don't turn the ball over and let our D win it" robot?

Or is it something else?

Given all the beat guys have said it's been pounded into KP's head to play safe, how I saw the offense under Roth and MT keeping the passing game outside the numbers, and MT's words he was being told over and over to play safe, I'm leaning heavily towards option A.

If it's reality, then the same thing will happen to the next QB they draft, and so on and so forth.

Hence the reason I keep empathizing the problem here is Tomlin, the guy with 0 playoff wins the last six years.

I mean, if you want to do everything you can to absolve the guy who is actually out there playing like crap, then sure, blame Tomlin. I seriously don't think that Tomlin or Canada is telling Pickett to lock onto his primary and never glance anywhere else but throw it even if the guy is covered.

I truly don't get why everyone is bending over backwards to avoid blaming the guy who has the ball in his hands on every play. Pickett had an amazing running game and clean pockets most of the day. Guys were getting open and rarely even getting a look from Pickett, to say nothing of an actual pass.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Here's the question that no one has asked: if you just want your QB to be a game manager, why did you need to spend a 1st Rounder on him?

They should have avoided KP if that was the case, because despite the whole pro ready thing that was bantered back and forth, he was a guy that played with a gunslinger attitude and a lot of moxy his last year in college.

He's not exactly a guy you should have drafted to become a safe robo QB.

It's clearly not working. Well development wise, but Tomlin just wants to eek out wins so I guess everything is going to plan in his world.

Again, there is no real plan here. How does Tomlin expect to win in the playoffs when he's afraid to let his QB throw inside the numbers and wants everything safe and clean?

He's building another house of cards, but that seems to be his speciality.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I think this has been discussed, but why isn't anyone calling out Austin for this?

You have a secondary that's decimated by injury so you're down to practice squad guys. For the game winning play, you want to play MAN?

Minkah Fitzpatrick Called Game – Literally – With Audible From Sideline On Game-Winning INT

The Pittsburgh Steelers decided not to place S Minkah Fitzpatrick on the Reserve/Injured List, hopeful that he would be able to return without needing to miss the full four games that would have been required had they done so. He’s only missed two games so far, and there is as yet no indication...

steelersdepot.com

1) It's clear the team misses Minkah on the field. The secondary is suspect even with him in, but it's weak without him. Thank goodness he's at least around.
2) Isn't anyone with the team tired of having so much experience defending late-game game-saving situations?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Lots of similar questions about Belicheck, kinda like Tomlin

The decisions that led to this Patriots catastrophe: Barnwell on how they could get back on track

The 2-8 Patriots have the worst record in the AFC, are on pace for a top-three draft pick and are five seasons removed from their last playoff victory.

www.espn.com

 

[Josey Wales]

1) It's clear the team misses Minkah on the field. The secondary is suspect even with him in, but it's weak without him. Thank goodness he's at least around.
2) Isn't anyone with the team tired of having so much experience defending late-game game-saving situations?

Because Tomlin is The Real DC just like he was with Keith Butler

 

[TooManyHumans]

Is he playing scared because Tomlin has made him into a "don't turn the ball over and let our D win it" robot?

Or is it something else?

Given all the beat guys have said it's been pounded into KP's head to play safe, how I saw the offense under Roth and MT keeping the passing game outside the numbers, and MT's words he was being told over and over to play safe, I'm leaning heavily towards option A.

If it's reality, then the same thing will happen to the next QB they draft, and so on and so forth.

Hence the reason I keep empathizing the problem here is Tomlin, the guy with 0 playoff wins the last six years.

Our offense was never conservative under Ben until Ben was shot. This idea that Tomlin solely wants a safe offense is simply not backed up by Ben's career.

 

[Josey Wales]

Daniel Jeremiah

@MoveTheSticks
·
23h
Steelers rookie OT Broderick Jones jumps off the screen when you look at all of their explosive runs. He is dominating. HR pick!!!

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I mean, if you want to do everything you can to absolve the guy who is actually out there playing like crap, then sure, blame Tomlin. I seriously don't think that Tomlin or Canada is telling Pickett to lock onto his primary and never glance anywhere else but throw it even if the guy is covered.

I truly don't get why everyone is bending over backwards to avoid blaming the guy who has the ball in his hands on every play. Pickett had an amazing running game and clean pockets most of the day. Guys were getting open and rarely even getting a look from Pickett, to say nothing of an actual pass.

It's not bending over backwards, its reality. I wrote the same things about MT last year before he got benched.

When you make a QB think too much, he's going to regress, and that's what we are seeing with KP and MT became a train wreck last year under Tomlin/Canada.

These guys have to play on instincts and not be afraid to make mistakes.

They did the same shit to Roth in the first half of games in '21, to a tune of a franchise record scoreless streak.

Then when he said f*** it and did his own thing in the second half, he looked like a completely different QB.

Where do you think this is going come playoff time if Tomlin insists on keeping KP in some safe little bubble?

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Tomlin dont turn it over ok i will throw it late over the middle in triple coverage to heyward against Tennessee or i will throw a lateral maybe star down warren and try to force it to dj late.
He doesn’t have the arm strength or anticipation ability to attack the midfield of the field.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Our offense was never conservative under Ben until Ben was shot. This idea that Tomlin solely wants a safe offense is simply not backed up by Ben's career.

Canada literally told us Tomlin wants a safe offense.

Tomlin dont turn it over ok i will throw it late over the middle in triple coverage to heyward against Tennessee or i will throw a lateral maybe star down warren and try to force it to dj late.
He doesn’t have the arm strength or anticipation ability to attack the midfield of the field.

You literally said the same shit about Roth in '21, then he would come in the second half with the Tomlin/Canada chains off him when it was desperation time, and suddenly with Roth calling the plays, the middle of the field magically opened up.

Like a miracle or something.

 

[TooManyHumans]

Canada literally told us Tomlin wants a safe offense.

So what is safe about locking onto Warren in the flat, ignoring two open guys, and forcing the ball to a covered Warren without even looking anywhere else? It could have been picked. I think the simplest and most obvious explanation is that Pickett cannot read a defense or anticipate guys getting open. The idea that the coaches scheme guys open only to tell the QB to completely ignore them is absurd on its face.

Tomlin dont turn it over ok i will throw it late over the middle in triple coverage to heyward against Tennessee or i will throw a lateral maybe star down warren and try to force it to dj late.
He doesn’t have the arm strength or anticipation ability to attack the midfield of the field.

Exactly. Even if they tell Pickett to be careful (every QB should be), they don't tell him to play dumb or scared. Pickett owns his play. Ridiculous the lengths some people will go to avoid pointing any blame at the guy who is actually out there sucking. And Pickett had as dominant a running game as he will ever have and solid protection all day. Dude needs to step it up big time.

 

[DanielPlainview]

I think this thread has made it clear almost no one here has any idea how to evaluate a QB in the NFL.

Kenny Pickett is not a bad QB and has the potential to be a good one if allowed to develop in a situation without the worst offensive minds in the league.

People who expect him to carry an offense in his second year, especially in the dogshit situation he’s in in Pittsburgh, are delusional.

Most of the best QBs we’ve seen over the past 30 years didn’t hit their stride in the league until their 4th or 5th season. There were flashes here and there but it wasn’t like Peyton Manning was directing the offense like we think of in his second season or Tom Brady was lighting it up in 2002. It’s like people just have a black hole in the memory banks for the early years of the QBs they think of as benchmarks.

 

[TooManyHumans]

I think this thread has made it clear almost no one here has any idea how to evaluate a QB in the NFL.

Kenny Pickett is not a bad QB and has the potential to be a good one if allowed to develop in a situation without the worst offensive minds in the league.

People who expect him to carry an offense in his second year, especially in the dogshit situation he’s in in Pittsburgh, are delusional.

Expecting him to get more than 5.5 YPA and 126 total passing yards and 0 TDs in a game where he had over 200 yards rushing and good protection is asking him to carry the team? Seriously? This is the absurd shit I am talking about.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

So what is safe about locking onto Warren in the flat, ignoring two open guys, and forcing the ball to a covered Warren without even looking anywhere else? It could have been picked. I think the simplest and most obvious explanation is that Pickett cannot read a defense or anticipate guys getting open. The idea that the coaches scheme guys open only to tell the QB to completely ignore them is absurd on its face.

So the beat guys and MT are making it up that Tomlin pounds it into his QBs heads they have to play it safe and let the D win?

Canada even alluded to this in the spring when he basically said "it's not me, it's Tomlin".

KP looks unsure of himself and afraid to make throws, which is a sign of self-doubt.

No one knows exactly where that is coming from, but I'm 100% sure a big part of it is Tomlin being in his ear about not making mistakes, especially when MT got pissed off and flat out said that was a big issue for him.

Debate what you will, but a QB can't play well if he's terrified of making mistakes.

 

[DanielPlainview]

Expecting him to get more than 5.5 YPA and 126 total passing yards and 0 TDs in a game where he had over 200 yards rushing and good protection is asking him to carry the team? Seriously? This is the absurd shit I am talking about.

If that happened consistently for KP we would see his stats improve. There’s still no escaping Canada’s dogshit passing scheme.

 

[xlm34]

Lots of similar questions about Belicheck, kinda like Tomlin

The decisions that led to this Patriots catastrophe: Barnwell on how they could get back on track

The 2-8 Patriots have the worst record in the AFC, are on pace for a top-three draft pick and are five seasons removed from their last playoff victory.

www.espn.com

I think what we’re seeing throughout the league is that replacing a franchise QB is really hard. Not that we really needed much proof of that.

The Patriots have been a complete disaster post Brady. The Saints have been completely mediocre without Brees. Things aren’t looking good in Green Bay post Rodgers. The Giants have been a dumpster fire after Manning. We’ve all watched the Steelers.

Then there’s the Chargers who somehow cannot capitalize on having Herbert.

 

[TooManyHumans]

So the beat guys and MT are making it up that Tomlin pounds it into his QBs heads they have to play it safe and let the D win?

Canada even alluded to this in the spring when he basically said "it's not me, it's Tomlin".

KP looks unsure of himself and afraid to make throws, which is a sign of self-doubt.

No one knows exactly where that is coming from, but I'm 100% sure a big part of it is Tomlin being in his ear about not making mistakes, especially when MT got pissed off and flat out said that was a big issue for him.

Debate what you will, but a QB can't play well if he's terrified of making mistakes.

I think Pickett owns it when Pickett is playing scared. He is a professional athlete. He owns what he puts on the field.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I think this thread has made it clear almost no one here has any idea how to evaluate a QB in the NFL.

Kenny Pickett is not a bad QB and has the potential to be a good one if allowed to develop in a situation without the worst offensive minds in the league.

People who expect him to carry an offense in his second year, especially in the dogshit situation he’s in in Pittsburgh, are delusional.

Most of the best QBs we’ve seen over the past 30 years didn’t hit their stride in the league until their 4th or 5th season. There were flashes here and there but it wasn’t like Peyton Manning was directing the offense like we think of in his second season.

A good qb elevates those around him his nfl comp was Bridewater Tanahill Dalton and if everything goes well Carr. He was over drafted in a crappy QB draft were only 2 guys are still starting
He is putting up numbers similar to mac jones Zack wilson Tanahill Young Ridder
Mason in his first 5 starts had 4 multi passing tds games we are onto start 23 with 1 for kp