OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: They Killed Kenny!

[JTG]

Flip Najee for what? Swap 7th round picks with somebody? He has no value in a trade

He has a bit more value than that. If we could get a 4th, I'd take it and roll with Warren.

He's gone in a year anyway. No chance they pick up his option, and no chance he sticks around in this shit smear.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

He has a bit more value than that. If we could get a 4th, I'd take it and roll with Warren.

He's gone in a year anyway. No chance they pick up his option, and no chance he sticks around in this shit smear.

Why do people keep saying that its

NFL Fifth-Year Option Tracker 2023: Eligible Players, Salaries, and How It Works

The NFL has announced the fifth-year option salaries for first-round picks in the 2020 NFL Draft. The deadline to exercise the option is May 2.

www.profootballnetwork.com

8 million because he has a pro bowl is cheap mitch is making almost 8 as the backup quarterback
Warren is a solid 2nd rb like Pollard he isn’t a 30 carries guy maybe he gets Williams level

 

[ChaosAgent]

He has a bit more value than that. If we could get a 4th, I'd take it and roll with Warren.

He's gone in a year anyway. No chance they pick up his option, and no chance he sticks around in this shit smear.

I think Harris sticks around, for less money. Much better RBs than him have had to live with 1-2 year deals after their rookie deal. PFF and the like are very down on Najee. This board is not an outlier.

 

[Peat]

8m isn't cheap for a running back. That's 10th best paid.

I wouldn't want to say no chance they do it given how much they use him but I can't say it strikes me as a good idea. I don't want Warren to be lead back, that's too much resting on his durability, but I'm not interested in paying Harris 8m to avoid that.

Tbh, I'd probably let him play out his contract here, maybe offer him 4m at the end of that, and go from there.

 

[Shaftception]

If a team offers a 1st for Pickens, I probably do it. He is a lazy/bad route runner but still demands the ball and has an attitude about it evidently.

Please note I said a 1st. I want significant value because the raw talent and athleticism is obscene. But maybe we effectively trade him for a 1st round lineman, then test our drafting ability at WR in the 2nd-3rd. That has traditionally worked for us.

I think Pickens in of himself is volatile, though. He is going to want to start putting up gaudy numbers on advance of trying to get paid.

But I do hear that a rookie WR is a risk. We missed with Washington recently.

I think you're right, but If he were to be traded, I'd wager it's because he made it known his intentions to not sign an extension here, rather than for lack of performance issues like with Claypool.

Yes he's a lazy route runner and isn't near polished or matured, but the potential is obvious. He knows as well as anybody what his ceiling could be if he was instead developing as the primary receiver being thrown the ball by a top QB instead of one in the bottom third of the league who's hamstrung even further by a head coach who enforces a conservative style of offense. If he's not already, he'll be looking for greener pastures sooner rather than later.

Normally I'd expect them to keep him until he walks in free agency as the Steelers usual m.o. is to maintain that .500 record streak at all costs. But the trading of Claypool might be a sign of things modernizing ever so slightly in the front office regarding expiring assets that could provide more value as a draft pick(s) than their contribution to a meaningless streak.

Regardless of how it happens, I don't see him sticking around long enough to be part of the next winning core. Too much money to be made elsewhere.

 

[JTG]

Why do people keep saying that its

NFL Fifth-Year Option Tracker 2023: Eligible Players, Salaries, and How It Works

The NFL has announced the fifth-year option salaries for first-round picks in the 2020 NFL Draft. The deadline to exercise the option is May 2.

www.profootballnetwork.com

8 million because he has a pro bowl is cheap mitch is making almost 8 as the backup quarterback
Warren is a solid 2nd rb like Pollard he isn’t a 30 carries guy maybe he gets Williams level

They aren't picking up his option because of the dollar amount, it's because he sucks. I would not pay 8m for him when he's shown to be ineffective this season.

 

[ChaosAgent]

They aren't picking up his option because of the dollar amount, it's because he sucks. I would not pay 8m for him when he's shown to be ineffective this season.

Harris doesn't suck necessarily, but he's Just a Guy.
You could grab 2 other scrap heap RBs and there's a good chance 1/2 would be a solid 1A with Warren.

I wouldn't rule out a 2 Yr/$7M deal for Najee. Tomlin loves him and he has played better as of late.

I think you're right, but If he were to be traded, I'd wager it's because he made it known his intentions to not sign an extension here, rather than for lack of performance issues like with Claypool.

Yes he's a lazy route runner and isn't near polished or matured, but the potential is obvious. He knows as well as anybody what his ceiling could be if he was instead developing as the primary receiver being thrown the ball by a top QB instead of one in the bottom third of the league who's hamstrung even further by a head coach who enforces a conservative style of offense. If he's not already, he'll be looking for greener pastures sooner rather than later.

Normally I'd expect them to keep him until he walks in free agency as the Steelers usual m.o. is to maintain that .500 record streak at all costs. But the trading of Claypool might be a sign of things modernizing ever so slightly in the front office regarding expiring assets that could provide more value as a draft pick(s) than their contribution to a meaningless streak.

Regardless of how it happens, I don't see him sticking around long enough to be part of the next winning core. Too much money to be made elsewhere.

It was interesting to watch Hopkins last Thursday. Like 80-90% of the physical ability but so much more attention to detail, desire to get open and bought into the team.
The Steelers offense is a disaster more often than not, but George Pickens is spoiled rotten in football terms and has clearly been catered to his entire life. We're going to have a series of on-field tantrums for years with this guy. Might still be worth it.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Najee’s 5th year option will be 7mil. The Pro Bowl bonus only counts if the selection is on the original ballet.

While I do believe they should not pick it up. I also understand that the option would be for the 2025 season when the cap will be up an additional 60 mil.

Both Warren and Najee are FA in 2025. So I would think they will want to have one of them under contract for 2025.

I think they will look to draft a guy this season. Or maybe they go the UDFA route again. Especially if they can’t work out an extension with one of Warren or Najee.

 

[JTG]

The most intriguing thing about the Steelers has absolutely nothing to do with the product on the field for me. I'm way more intrigued by the Khan/Weidl long term plan/impact.

 

[Peat]

We're a season and a half from them worrying about Pickens' next contract. Unless the guy blows up in some form, he's going nowhere.

They aren't picking up his option because of the dollar amount, it's because he sucks. I would not pay 8m for him when he's shown to be ineffective this season.

Tomlin's usage of him is about the clearest disagreement with this statement you'll ever seen. I imagine Rooney has a bit of ego invested in him as well. I really wouldn't be surprised if he got his option, even if it makes no sense.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I highly doubt in 2025 mitch is still on the roster at over 8 million dollars that money goes to Najee cam will be off the books they will have 140 to spend and 30 guys to sign as of today but that will change

 

[JTG]

We're a season and a half from them worrying about Pickens' next contract. Unless the guy blows up in some form, he's going nowhere.



Tomlin's usage of him is about the clearest disagreement with this statement you'll ever seen. I imagine Rooney has a bit of ego invested in him as well. I really wouldn't be surprised if he got his option, even if it makes no sense.

Well Tomlin has been using him less and less. I think we are at a true 50/50 now with Warren getting carries on 1st down.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I think Harris sticks around, for less money. Much better RBs than him have had to live with 1-2 year deals after their rookie deal. PFF and the like are very down on Najee. This board is not an outlier.

Can't disagree with this more
Harris and his RB buddies were just caterwauling before the season started about how this position is so underpaid. He's not going to take a discount

 

[OnMyOwn]

I really just don’t think they’ll option him and try to sign him for less, whether he takes it or not. Obviously this depends on the remainder of his season…but even if you claim he’s buddies with the coach, he’s still losing reps to Warren on a consistent basis.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Well Tomlin has been using him less and less. I think we are at a true 50/50 now with Warren getting carries on 1st down.

I know it feels that way and I would have agreed with you as I felt that way as well, but when I look at the stats it isn't true.

Date	Team		Opp	Result	Najee Att	Warren Att
9/10/2023	PIT		SFO	L 7-30	6	3
9/18/2023	PIT		CLE	W 26-22	10	6
9/24/2023	PIT	@	LVR	W 23-18	19	8
10/1/2023	PIT	@	HOU	L 6-30	14	8
10/8/2023	PIT		BAL	W 17-10	14	9
10/22/2023	PIT	@	LAR	W 24-17	14	6
10/29/2023	PIT		JAX	L 10-20	7	5
11/2/2023	PIT		TEN	W 20-16	16	11

Have to see how the season finishes out.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I know it feels that way and I would have agreed with you as I felt that way as well, but when I look at the stats it isn't true.

Date	Team		Opp	Result	Najee Att	Warren Att
9/10/2023	PIT		SFO	L 7-30	6	3
9/18/2023	PIT		CLE	W 26-22	10	6
9/24/2023	PIT	@	LVR	W 23-18	19	8
10/1/2023	PIT	@	HOU	L 6-30	14	8
10/8/2023	PIT		BAL	W 17-10	14	9
10/22/2023	PIT	@	LAR	W 24-17	14	6
10/29/2023	PIT		JAX	L 10-20	7	5
11/2/2023	PIT		TEN	W 20-16	16	11

Have to see how the season finishes out.

Is there a way to break it out by snap count? Feel like that's more telling vs carries. Plus I don't think those stats reflect receiving targets?

 

[Peat]

Harris has a 115 touches this season. It's a far cry from where he was, but he's still getting lead back usage and is still clearly liked.

 

[Empoleon8771]

For anyone who suggested Fields was a good target, neat stat I saw on reddit:

"Since drafting Justin Fields in 2021 the Bears are 6-25 when he starts and 6-7 when the backup starts."

 

[Peat]

Former Steelers TE Jace Sternberger Says Pittsburgh's Playbook Was Stunningly Simple Compared To Packers'

Former Pittsburgh Steelers TE Jace Sternberger is bringing some insight into the incredible simplicity of a Matt Canada offense. Not just about the concepts but in the way the playbook was drawn up and the way players were coached. Having spent time in Pittsburgh and Green Bay, he says the...

steelersdepot.com

"The details were night and day. I can't even say night and day. It was night and ten years in the past... the details on the assignment were nothing. It was literally like, 'five yards. You're running the stick.'... Going to Pittsburgh was harder to learn. Because I'm like, 'why are we doing this? What's the reasoning behind it?'"

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The same deal with KP weaves its way through the rest of the offensive skill players. Harris is part of that.

And is the most annoying thing about the Tomlin/Canada hamstrung offense.

You can see both issues and sparks of potential in all of them, and that "offense" makes it almost impossible to accurately judge any of them.

KP has accuracy issues but is that because of a lack of ability or a lack of development? Harris at times simply does not seem to see the hole and makes bad decisions. But again, is that bad instincts or bad development and the offense mentally wearing everyone down?

Who knows?

Canada's offense harms them now and well into the future.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

The same deal with KP weaves its way through the rest of the offensive skill players. Harris is part of that.

And is the most annoying thing about the Tomlin/Canada hamstrung offense.

You can see both issues and sparks of potential in all of them, and that "offense" makes it almost impossible to accurately judge any of them.

KP has accuracy issues but is that because of a lack of ability or a lack of development? Harris at times simply does not seem to see the hole and makes bad decisions. But again, is that bad instincts or bad development and the offense mentally wearing everyone down?

Who knows?

Canada's offense harms them now and well into the future.

I've been making this comment often regarding KP and the offense

Is it the chicken or the egg?

Hard to decipher

 

[Goalie_Bob]

KP has accuracy issues but is that because of a lack of ability or a lack of development?

Accuracy issues are 100% on the QB.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Dulac says outburst was about the same run plays being called.

And Dejan said it was because Chuks openly expressed that the Steelers should kneel out the final minute or so in the loss to the Jags.
https://dkpittsburghsports.com/2023/11/ ... lin-nfl-dk

Well, it shouldn't: Okorafor's a good player, a good teammate, a good guy. Who, I'm told by multiple locker-room sources, made a mistake near the end of the 20-10 loss to the Jaguars at Acrisure Stadium in remarking, apparently within earshot of Tomlin, that the offense should simply kneel out the remainder of the clock rather than continuing to run plays.

 

[Peat]

The same deal with KP weaves its way through the rest of the offensive skill players. Harris is part of that.

And is the most annoying thing about the Tomlin/Canada hamstrung offense.

You can see both issues and sparks of potential in all of them, and that "offense" makes it almost impossible to accurately judge any of them.

KP has accuracy issues but is that because of a lack of ability or a lack of development? Harris at times simply does not seem to see the hole and makes bad decisions. But again, is that bad instincts or bad development and the offense mentally wearing everyone down?

Who knows?

Canada's offense harms them now and well into the future.

Nobody knows for sure, but I feel like given everything said and leaked about all of the people involved, it is extremely likely that bad development has played a very substantial part in what is happening for a lot of players.

Accuracy issues are 100% on the QB.

Do you really believe that the Steelers have done everything necessary to adequately train and prepare Pickett for his role?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Nobody knows for sure, but I feel like given everything said and leaked about all of the people involved, it is extremely likely that bad development has played a very substantial part in what is happening for a lot of players.



Do you really believe that the Steelers have done everything necessary to adequately train and prepare Pickett for his role?

Exactly.

Obviously, accuracy is a lot on the quarterback. Harris missing the hole and seemingly not having the instincts that frankly he had in college is on the player.

However, it is also fair to say that development and a crappy system is also open to question as playing a large role.

It has been half a decade now of offensive ineptitude. It is beyond obvious that the players are not entirely to blame for this.