OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: They Blamed Canada

[Colonel Mustard]

The depressing thing is knowing what needs to change but it never will. Tomlin isnt going anywhere unless he wants to.

 

[Peat]

The NFL doesn't care about safety. At best they only care about if offensive skill position players can play week to week. And there are plenty of things they can do in favor of safety but choose not to, like padded helmets which come with the drawback of not looking quite as nice on TV. But they don't. The defenders are put in impossible situations. Aside from potentially reading the play sooner, there's nothing Kazee could do. Like imagine they both dive for the ball, the same result is going to happen.

Probably not wrong, but I'll still take in terms of player safety. It's better than nothing.

And at the end of the day, I care more about the WR not getting brain damage than the DB being put in an impossible situation. The laws of the game are clear, it's up to them to figure it out. Is it the best possible version of the rules? No, but I'm not going to hate on it because of that.

And that's from someone who'd love the chance to lay down some of the blindside hits that NFL defencemen can do. Some things are more important.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I think Kazee had time to make a different decision on the play. There was no need to go full speed into a player that was already in his slide. He also doesn’t get the benefit of doubt from the league.
Maybe 3 games is excessive, but he deserved a suspension after all the stupidity he has pulled this season.

 

[JTG]

I have often wondered if the generational gap has started to come into play. Tomlin is still a relatively young coach, but he's now "dad" age. These men he's drafting, they are now his children. His message has to change, but to the public eye, it has remained consistent.

I also take issue with him treating some of these guys like "grown ass men." You get treated by how you act. If you act like a child, you will get treated as such. If you don't want to block, you sit. If you don't want to finish a route, you sit. If you don't want to make a tackle, you sit. Sometimes you have to be a prick as a coach and I'm not sure Tomlin is being enough of one with the likes of Pickens.

I just think this team has weak leadership and this team has a very serious problem when it comes to guys falling in line. Pickens doing what he's doing in his 2nd year is crazy to me.

This team has lost its way so badly, that I think the saying of "The person there to create the problem cannot be the one to fix the problem" exists. Tomlin is never going to change his ways enough to correct the course. It needs to be a totally different voice and I'm not a Tomlin hater. I think he is a really good HC. He just is so poor at supporting himself, it gets out of control.

If the Steelers trade Mike Tomlin this offseason, I'd be shocked if it isn't one of the biggest hauls the NFL has ever seen. He'd then go on to be the highest paid coach by 2x.

 

[Peat]

I also take issue with him treating some of these guys like "grown ass men." You get treated by how you act. If you act like a child, you will get treated as such. If you don't want to block, you sit. If you don't want to finish a route, you sit. If you don't want to make a tackle, you sit. Sometimes you have to be a prick as a coach and I'm not sure Tomlin is being enough of one with the likes of Pickens.

If you're George Pickens and they're threatening your ability to get a whole 50 receiving yards a week, do you really care that much if you're sat?

 

[T1K]

I have often wondered if the generational gap has started to come into play. Tomlin is still a relatively young coach, but he's now "dad" age. These men he's drafting, they are now his children. His message has to change, but to the public eye, it has remained consistent.

I also take issue with him treating some of these guys like "grown ass men." You get treated by how you act. If you act like a child, you will get treated as such. If you don't want to block, you sit. If you don't want to finish a route, you sit. If you don't want to make a tackle, you sit. Sometimes you have to be a prick as a coach and I'm not sure Tomlin is being enough of one with the likes of Pickens.

I just think this team has weak leadership and this team has a very serious problem when it comes to guys falling in line. Pickens doing what he's doing in his 2nd year is crazy to me.

This team has lost its way so badly, that I think the saying of "The person there to create the problem cannot be the one to fix the problem" exists. Tomlin is never going to change his ways enough to correct the course. It needs to be a totally different voice and I'm not a Tomlin hater. I think he is a really good HC. He just is so poor at supporting himself, it gets out of control.

If the Steelers trade Mike Tomlin this offseason, I'd be shocked if it isn't one of the biggest hauls the NFL has ever seen. He'd then go on to be the highest paid coach by 2x.

My pushback for firing Tomlin has always been that he’d get signed elsewhere instantly. If there’s interest in the trade market, you gotta think he’s fetching a 1st +. Washington and Carolina would definitely be interested. Just for the drama, I’d love to see Tomlin end up in New England.

 

[Josey Wales]

My pushback for firing Tomlin has always been that he’d get signed elsewhere instantly. If there’s interest in the trade market, you gotta think he’s fetching a 1st +. Washington and Carolina would definitely be interested. Just for the drama, I’d love to see Tomlin end up in New England.

Don't Let The Door Hit Ya, Where the good Lord split ya

 

[ChaosAgent]

I have often wondered if the generational gap has started to come into play. Tomlin is still a relatively young coach, but he's now "dad" age. These men he's drafting, they are now his children. His message has to change, but to the public eye, it has remained consistent.

I also take issue with him treating some of these guys like "grown ass men." You get treated by how you act. If you act like a child, you will get treated as such. If you don't want to block, you sit. If you don't want to finish a route, you sit. If you don't want to make a tackle, you sit. Sometimes you have to be a prick as a coach and I'm not sure Tomlin is being enough of one with the likes of Pickens.

I just think this team has weak leadership and this team has a very serious problem when it comes to guys falling in line. Pickens doing what he's doing in his 2nd year is crazy to me.

This team has lost its way so badly, that I think the saying of "The person there to create the problem cannot be the one to fix the problem" exists. Tomlin is never going to change his ways enough to correct the course. It needs to be a totally different voice and I'm not a Tomlin hater. I think he is a really good HC. He just is so poor at supporting himself, it gets out of control.

If the Steelers trade Mike Tomlin this offseason, I'd be shocked if it isn't one of the biggest hauls the NFL has ever seen. He'd then go on to be the highest paid coach by 2x.

There are so many parallels to Sullivan on the Penguins side of things.

Guy comes in and has immediate incredible success which buys him equity seemingly forever. He's both the players coach and the hardass (which is impossible, but somehow Tomlin's reputation got ahold of him). He says amazing inspirational-ish things but they are for the consumption of the national media which are a bunch of hypermotivated ex-jocks and the 1% of the 1% of the journalism school people. Do these quotes and things that impress the "could be a coach but went into broadcasting" former player really resonate at all with some 23 year old addicted to social media? It's very performative to be loved by the likes of Mike Greenberg and Howie Long.

Meanwhile, schematically it's not clear that Tomlin is good at anything. We already know he doesn't know offense. I question his defensive acumen. Every time Watt does not single-handedly win the game his defense gets shredded. It's soft in coverage and our pass defense has been bad forever (I guess aside from the Haden, Nelson, Minkah year).

It's unclear what Tomlin actually does well. I guess our record is better than our team, which could indicate good coaching. But the team sucks, which indicates bad coaching.

 

[mynameisnick4]

My pushback for firing Tomlin has always been that he’d get signed elsewhere instantly. If there’s interest in the trade market, you gotta think he’s fetching a 1st +. Washington and Carolina would definitely be interested. Just for the drama, I’d love to see Tomlin end up in New England.

Why does that matter? It such a dumb reason to argue against firing a coach. A coach can hit is expiration date with a team and still be a good (very debatable in this case) in demand coach. As far as I know coaches can't get traded against their will, he would need to agree to it. It's not he he's some player with a cap friendly contract that has no say in the matter.

There is very little argument for keeping Tomlin at this point where the list of reasons to fire him is a mile long.

 

[T1K]

Why does that matter? It such a dumb reason to argue against firing a coach. A coach can hit is expiration date with a team and still be a good (very debatable in this case) in demand coach. As far as I know coaches can't get traded against their will, he would need to agree to it. It's not he he's some player with a cap friendly contract that has no say in the matter.

There is very little argument for keeping Tomlin at this point where the list of reasons to fire him is a mile long.

It’s simple, they should trade him because he’s an asset.

Coaches do not have no movement clauses in their contracts - they can get traded without their consent. They have to sign a new contract with their new team so that’s why there is usually some communication in advance of the transaction. There is no upside in outright firing Tomlin while there is outside interest. Payton is a worse coach and the Broncos coveted him so much they got him to come out of retirement. You don’t think Carolina would be interested? Their owner has ties to Pittsburgh, fat pockets, and has made plenty of aggressive moves in the past.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

The thing is, you don’t need to hit him at all if he’s diving. Just touch him at all.

So just let him catch the pass instead of breaking it up? It's going to be difficult to hold onto a roster spot if you're doing that

 

[Peat]

He says amazing inspirational-ish things but they are for the consumption of the national media which are a bunch of hypermotivated ex-jocks and the 1% of the 1% of the journalism school people. Do these quotes and things that impress the "could be a coach but went into broadcasting" former player really resonate at all with some 23 year old addicted to social media? It's very performative to be loved by the likes of Mike Greenberg and Howie Long.

Every summer, there's a bunch of free agents talking about how they've wanted to play for Tomlin. Not the Steelers, Tomlin. The Athletic's anonymous players poll, they had Tomlin as the best head coach.

So yeah, I think it impresses the players.

And tbh, I doubt the ex-jocks in the media are really all that different from the jocks in the locker room.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Every summer, there's a bunch of free agents talking about how they've wanted to play for Tomlin. Not the Steelers, Tomlin. The Athletic's anonymous players poll, they had Tomlin as the best head coach.

So yeah, I think it impresses the players.

And tbh, I doubt the ex-jocks in the media are really all that different from the jocks in the locker room.

Fair point. But at the same time, he's lost this team. This collection of guys. Do they see through it? Are they despondent and feel hopeless?
Now that the bloom is off the rose, not sure how over-the-top the adulation for Tomlin is going to be. If he finishes 8-9 here, goes somewhere else for $150M and then produces middling results his celebrity will dim.

 

[Ogrezilla]

So just let him catch the pass instead of breaking it up? It's going to be difficult to hold onto a roster spot if you're doing that

if the other option is to go through him head on, yes. If you can't hit him or defend it another way legally then you didn't cover the guy well enough and he gets to catch the ball. Get the guy down and move to the next play.

 

[Peat]

So just let him catch the pass instead of breaking it up? It's going to be difficult to hold onto a roster spot if you're doing that

And it's going to be even more difficult to do it if you're suspended for three games, which is why the league has put that punishment down. If Kazee wants his NFL career to continue, he's got to find a way to make it happen by their rule book.

Fair point. But at the same time, he's lost this team. This collection of guys. Do they see through it? Are they despondent and feel hopeless?
Now that the bloom is off the rose, not sure how over-the-top the adulation for Tomlin is going to be. If he finishes 8-9 here, goes somewhere else for $150M and then produces middling results his celebrity will dim.

The thing that makes most sense to me is the skill players are now in Y2 or 3 of an absolutely brutally inept offensive regime that offers none of the rewards skill players are meant to get and that yeah, they're despondent and hopeless. Great words and personality can't plaster that over forever.

And that the poison is spreading from there.

If he can cling on and hire a real OC and get some fast results there, he can probably win them back. Doubt there'd be a lot of patience though.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

if the other option is to go through him head on, yes. If you can't hit him or defend it another way legally then you didn't cover the guy well enough and he gets to catch the ball. Get the guy down and move to the next play.

It's important to note that Kazee wasn't targeting the head, which is an important distinction that even the NHL can make. He didn't launch himself or target the normal head height, the receiver dove and stumbled and put his head in a dangerous spot. Even Tom Brady, a player who was given more by the refs than any other, thought the suspension was bogus.

And the truth is that no player is going to just let him catch the ball (plus let him get a few extra years from not being aggressive). No defensive coordinator is going to teach that. You can tell yourself that it makes the game safer but it does not. It is an inherent part of the game, where sometimes offensive players will get head injuries when they drop their head at the last minute. Intentional headshots like Burfict should be penalized but throwing a flag when a guy is hitting at midsection height isn't going to change any behaviors. It's just another way the refs can put their foot on the scale.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I don't understand what he's supposed to do there? If the guy has to dive to catch it you just let him do so?

I understand if anyone disagrees with the answer, but it’s yes, you do.

 

[Peat]

Athletic's consensus Big Board here (note, true talent big board, not predicted rankings)

Has Harrison at 1OA

Has Alt, Fashanu, and Latham top 10, with Mims 20 - tackle rich, don't expect the best RTs to make it out of round 1.

Has Daniels at 15, Penix and Nix late 1st, Sanders and McCarthy early 2nd.

 

[JTG]

Man it'd be so nice to lose out and be able to get a guy in the top 15.

 

[Power Surge]

It’s simple, they should trade him because he’s an asset.

Coaches do not have no movement clauses in their contracts - they can get traded without their consent. They have to sign a new contract with their new team so that’s why there is usually some communication in advance of the transaction. There is no upside in outright firing Tomlin while there is outside interest. Payton is a worse coach and the Broncos coveted him so much they got him to come out of retirement. You don’t think Carolina would be interested? Their owner has ties to Pittsburgh, fat pockets, and has made plenty of aggressive moves in the past.

Clowns are not assets. They're just there.

Edit: nevermind, I think he's one of Clowns ball masseuses that has me on ignore.

 

[Power Surge]

The depressing thing is knowing what needs to change but it never will. Tomlin isnt going anywhere unless he wants to.

Exactly. Rooney literally said last off-season he's so blessed to have Clown.

The only way you are going to put pressure on Rooney is a Fire Tomlin/Tomlin sucks chants at every home game.

I would start with the Tomlin sucks cause that is more hilarious.

 

[JTG]

Athletic's consensus Big Board here (note, true talent big board, not predicted rankings)

Has Harrison at 1OA

Has Alt, Fashanu, and Latham top 10, with Mims 20 - tackle rich, don't expect the best RTs to make it out of round 1.

Has Daniels at 15, Penix and Nix late 1st, Sanders and McCarthy early 2nd.

What a draft to have a bunch of picks.

 

[OnMyOwn]

Things have to get way worse before they entertain firing Tomlin. Like multiple losing seasons bad. He’s here until that happens or he wants to leave. The excuse list is a mile long this season.

The best we can hope for is some quality coordinators this offseason and another good effort from Kahn with the players he adds/gets rid of.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The depressing thing is knowing what needs to change but it never will. Tomlin isnt going anywhere unless he wants to.

Steeler fans have to live in an alternate universe where Tomlin is always right and we are “out of our minds” for wanting him gone.

Some of us have taken the red pill though, but AR2 is never going to break free from his simulation where Tomlin is the greatest coach of all time and just a tweak away from a SB.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Steeler fans have to live in an alternate universe where Tomlin is always right and we are “out of our minds” for wanting him gone.

Some of us have taken the red pill though, but AR2 is never going to break free from his simulation where Tomlin is the greatest coach of all time and just a tweak away from a SB.

Listening to d