OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Steelers need a new ball thrower for the handball game thingy

[TotesTorts]

Kenny Pickett not getting many reps and generally looking like shit when he does is amusing given the asinine reactions.

It's going to be a loooooong year w/the QB roulette going on.

I don't believe there will be a QB roulette. It will be Trubisky's job unless he gets hurt. Mason back-up. Pickett in a hat and t-shirt till Week 8 at the earliest.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I don't believe there will be a QB roulette. It will be Trubisky's job unless he gets hurt. Mason back-up. Pickett in a hat and t-shirt till Week 8 at the earliest.

Eventhough I goofed on the Rudolph stuff earlier, I wouldn't be shocked if he beats both guys out, given he knows the offense well and they don't.

Probably not likely, but it's not some far out idea either.

Trubisky I suspect has been secretly pegged to start by Tomlin and crew, however. So he would have to really shit the bed to lose the starting job.

He's been pretty durable in his career, usually missing games when he was benched from what I recall. So I doubt he loses the job though injury.

If Rudolph sticks around and KP is moved to third string, it will tell me Tomlin doesn't know how to develop a young QB.

Third stringers get almost zero practice reps during the season, and that will be an idiotic way to help KP develop.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Eventhough I goofed on the Rudolph stuff earlier, I wouldn't be shocked if he beats both guys out, given he knows the offense well and they don't.

Probably not likely, but it's not some far out idea either.

Trubisky I suspect has been secretly pegged to start by Tomlin and crew, however. So he would have to really shit the bed to lose the starting job.

He's been pretty durable in his career, usually missing games when he was benched from what I recall. So I doubt he loses the job though injury.

If Rudolph sticks around and KP is moved to third string, it will tell me Tomlin doesn't know how to develop a young QB.

Third stringers get almost zero practice reps during the season, and that will be an idiotic way to help KP develop.

Ben was supposed to be the 3rd string guy his rookie year and the offense Mitch ran in Buffalo has a ton of similarities to Canada offense. KP struggled in college using Canada offense and was a late bloomer in whipple offense. They aren’t going to rush KP. He can redshirt this year and compete with Mt next year

 

[TotesTorts]

Eventhough I goofed on the Rudolph stuff earlier, I wouldn't be shocked if he beats both guys out, given he knows the offense well and they don't.

Probably not likely, but it's not some far out idea either.

Trubisky I suspect has been secretly pegged to start by Tomlin and crew, however. So he would have to really shit the bed to lose the starting job.

He's been pretty durable in his career, usually missing games when he was benched from what I recall. So I doubt he loses the job though injury.

If Rudolph sticks around and KP is moved to third string, it will tell me Tomlin doesn't know how to develop a young QB.

Third stringers get almost zero practice reps during the season, and that will be an idiotic way to help KP develop.

It's certainly possible they trade Mason.

For clipboard QB3s, yes, that's typically the case, but not so when a first round pick, heir-apparent is there. He and Mason will split reps all season long.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Ben was supposed to be the 3rd string guy his rookie year and the offense Mitch ran in Buffalo has a ton of similarities to Canada offense. KP struggled in college using Canada offense and was a late bloomer in whipple offense. They aren’t going to rush KP. He can redshirt this year and compete with Mt next year

Steelers had Maddox and Batch in front of BR, and even then it would have been stupid.

Cowher almost redshirted a future HOFer for an insurance salesman, so not exactly a great example to point to.

A rookie QB can't develop properly getting third team reps all season. If he's the backup, ok. Third string? Shows the coach has no clue what he's doing in developing a young guy.

You don't waste an entire season of a 1st round Qb's rookie year having him take third string reps in practice.

They also drafted KP and hailed a big reason why because he was pro ready. If he can't even be your backup, that is either stupid coaching or he's really, REALLY shit the bed in training camp.

Either scenario would be alarming.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Steelers had Maddox and Batch in front of BR, and even then it would have been stupid.

Cowher almost redshirted a future HOFer for an insurance salesman, so not exactly a great example to point to.

A rookie QB can't develop properly getting third team reps all season. If he's the backup, ok. Third string? Shows the coach has no clue what he's doing in developing a young guy.

You don't waste an entire season of a 1st round Qb's rookie year having him take third string reps in practice.

They also drafted KP and hailed a big reason why because he was pro ready. If he can't even be your backup, that is either stupid coaching or he's really, REALLY shit the bed in training camp.

Either scenario would be alarming.

Just because he was the best pro ready in this class does not mean anything. This class sucked and was full of one read QBs. Kenny struggled with every jump in competition in college he struggled with feeling pressure that wasn’t there in college. Kenny as a ton of tools but will probably be QB3 for next season. They can give him the entire 2nd half of pre season week 2 and all of week 3 unless he balls out and forces their hand.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Mason Rudolph being announced the starter week 1 is going to be glorious. And I'm being incredibly sarcastic.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Just because he was the best pro ready in this class does not mean anything. This class sucked and was full of one read QBs. Kenny struggled with every jump in competition in college he struggled with feeling pressure that wasn’t there in college. Kenny as a ton of tools but will probably be QB3 for next season. They can give him the entire 2nd half of pre season week 2 and all of week 3 unless he balls out and forces their hand.

You aren’t grasping how this works. It isn’t about KP starting, it’s about him developing this season.

If KP is third string this season, he will get a laughable amount of practice reps.

By the time the starter reps are over, the backup has MAYBE 20-25% of the reps and that’s generous. The third stringer QB gets almost zero work throughout the season.

Even if you split his reps with Rudolph, he will get so few reps it won’t even matter.

That’s not how you develop a young first round pick. It will be pissing away his rookie year with minimal development.

He needs the full amount of second string reps, just like Lance had last season.

This is what Lance said about getting starter reps for a couple games last season:

Every play was something new. I learned so much," Lance said. "Not only the games, but the practices, the walk-throughs, everything that goes on as a starter versus backing up Jimmy (Garoppolo) last year. Those weeks were completely different, and I grew a lot in those weeks of practice."

Keep in mind the context that he was getting second string reps in practice before that - so just imagine what he would have said if he was getting third string (non-existent) reps.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Dude none of us know how to develop a starting NFL QB.

The guy that cracks that code will be an incredibly rich man. (He will likely not be an HF boards poster.)

Day 3 of camp. I think this is reading into it too heavily.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Dude none of us know how to develop a starting NFL QB.

The guy that cracks that code will be an incredibly rich man. (He will likely not be an HF boards poster.)

Day 3 of camp. I think this is reading into it too heavily.

Pretty sure Arians knows how to develop QBs…

"I don't think you learn anything holding a clipboard," Arians said last week. "You know, I had Peyton Manning his first year, Andrew Luck his first year. Ben (Roethlisberger) was one of those guys that went in by accident because Tommy Maddox got hurt. You miss all the practice reps, you miss the game reps. I don't know what you learn holding a clipboard (and) watching."

This has nothing to do with day 3 of camp. It was a discussion someone started of where the QBs may end up and KP possibly being third string.

You don’t need to understand some double secret hidden QB code to know that reps for young QBs are incredibly important.

Which is exactly what Lance already explained in the quote above.

Less reps = less development. That will always hold true, despite all the other variables that go into figuring out how to develop a young QB.

 

[OnMyOwn]

Are they doing it like a true open competition though and this is how they rank the 3 right now? Im not sure if development is their concern or getting who they believe is the best guy, more reps.

I’d rather him be getting number 2 reps and we shoot mason to the moon, but I’m guessing that’s not how the Steelers see it.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Pretty sure Arians knows how to develop QBs…



This has nothing to do with day 3 of camp. It was a discussion someone started of where the QBs may end up and KP possibly being third string.

You don’t need to understand some double secret hidden QB code to know that reps for young QBs are incredibly important.

Which is exactly what Lance already explained in the quote above.

Less reps = less development. That will always hold true, despite all the other variables that go into figuring out how to develop a young QB.

If it’s a redshirt year it’s a redshirt year. I don’t really think it’ll hinder his development. Not a huge difference in reps between 2 and 3, if at all.

Rodgers got nothing for multiple years, while Goff had the perfect situation after year 1 and a million reps, in practice and live. You can find an example to support any argument. It’s a literal crapshoot.

 

[Peat]

If it’s a redshirt year it’s a redshirt year. I don’t really think it’ll hinder his development. Not a huge difference in reps between 2 and 3, if at all.

Rodgers got nothing for multiple years, while Goff had the perfect situation after year 1 and a million reps, in practice and live. You can find an example to support any argument. It’s a literal crapshoot.

Difference between some reps and no reps feel huge. Think Rudolph made the same point after going from the latter to the former. Clearly not the be all and end all but if you believe in a young QB and want them to be the best they can be, it seems an obvious factor to stack the odd in their favour and I think you can find a lot more examples to support it being important than examples to support it being no big deal.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

If it’s a redshirt year it’s a redshirt year. I don’t really think it’ll hinder his development. Not a huge difference in reps between 2 and 3, if at all.

Rodgers got nothing for multiple years, while Goff had the perfect situation after year 1 and a million reps, in practice and live. You can find an example to support any argument. It’s a literal crapshoot.

There is actually a huge difference between 2 and 3 reps. Not to mention 2s get into actual games at times, even if it’s mop up duty, that is invaluable to development.

You can always find an outlier if you want to build a case around something, but Rodgers isn’t a great example though.

He came into the league at 22, sat for three years, ya, but he was getting second string reps by his second year and got into several games.

Rodgers didn’t jump from third string QB one season to starter the next - and I doubt we want KP taking 3 years to become a starter when he’s 24 yrs old already.

So good luck finding any NFL OC, QB coach, head coach etc who will subscribe to the theory that less reps = better development.

That’s not cracking some hidden QB code, it’s just the reality of how a young QB develops.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Difference between some reps and no reps feel huge. Think Rudolph made the same point after going from the latter to the former. Clearly not the be all and end all but if you believe in a young QB and want them to be the best they can be, it seems an obvious factor to stack the odd in their favour and I think you can find a lot more examples to support it being important than examples to support it being no big deal.

To me it looks like they want him to earn his way up the chart, which I’m fine with.

Overall the biggest thing is they’re not rushing him in the first week.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

To me it looks like they want him to earn his way up the chart, which I’m fine with.

Overall the biggest thing is they’re not rushing him in the first week.

That’s not really what the discussion was though.

It was if KP was kept as the third string QB all season and the fact that would most definitely hinder his development.

I agree with your overall point though, but I suspect you misconstrued the discussion or I didn’t make it clear enough what I meant.

Either way no big deal.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Kyle Trask and Kellen Mond were Qb3 all season and Trask is going to be QB 3 possible for this season. Mills was not q2 to start last season and he is now starter in Houston if Pickett was in that draft he would have been in that tier of QB

 

[Peat]

Kyle Trask and Kellen Mond were Qb3 all season and Trask is going to be QB 3 possible for this season. Mills was not q2 to start last season and he is now starter in Houston if Pickett was in that draft he would have been in that tier of QB

Them picking Pickett in the first round says that either they don't agree with you, or they do but are really stupid.

If they don't agree with you, he shouldn't be QB3.

 

[Peat]

To me it looks like they want him to earn his way up the chart, which I’m fine with.

Overall the biggest thing is they’re not rushing him in the first week.

If they didn't think he earned the right to walk into QB2 without a competition simply through his college play, then they shouldn't have drafted him where they did for my money. I am fine with slow playing him at this point as part of the process and so they can be double-sure they've got the right guy between Trubisky and Rudolph, but after that, not okay with it.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Them picking Pickett in the first round says that either they don't agree with you, or they do but are really stupid.

If they don't agree with you, he shouldn't be QB3.

Or they had an opening and took the best Qb in the class in round 1 so they can redshirt him and still have the 5th year option. They aren’t going to rush Pickett and they aren’t going risk starting the season him being one hit away from starting if mason is healthy. If he is forced their hands maybe they move mason but they aren’t worried about getting anything from Pickett this season
I wonder Haskins was alive would they taken a QB in round 1.

 

[Peat]

Or they had an opening and took the best Qb in the class in round 1 so they can redshirt him and still have the 5th year option. They aren’t going to rush Pickett and they aren’t going risk starting the season him being one hit away from starting if mason is healthy. If he is forced their hands maybe they move mason but they aren’t worried about getting anything from Pickett this season
I wonder Haskins was alive would they taken a QB in round 1.

If Kenny Pickett is a first round QB, Dwayne Haskins being alive or not shouldn't mean a thing one way or the other, because you take those guys when opportunity knocks and then you prioritise them becoming who you believe they can be.

If Kenny Pickett is a first round QB, then they shouldn't be afraid of him taking some reps if Trubisky gets hurt. I get not wanting to rush him but a few game reps won't hurt, not as much as no practice reps at all will hurt. If Trubisky is injured long term, you can always trade for someone else's Rudolph they don't particularly need.

And if he isn't a first round QB like you're saying with the Mond/Trask/Mills comparisons, then they shouldn't have taken him in the first round just because he was the best in class. If the best in class isn't worth a first round pick, don't use one just because it's a weak class.

So if they treat him like he's Mond/Trask, then somewhere down the line there's some real stupidity involved. So I hope that's not the case.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Kyle Trask and Kellen Mond were Qb3 all season and Trask is going to be QB 3 possible for this season. Mills was not q2 to start last season and he is now starter in Houston if Pickett was in that draft he would have been in that tier of QB

It doesn't matter where he may have gone in this draft or that draft. If the Steelers thought he was worth a second rounder, they would have waited.

The invested a premium pick in a 24 year old rookie QB. You don't "redshirt" a guy like that unless your org has zero clue how to 1. draft and 2. develop a QB.

Not being the starter and being a "redshirt" are entirely different things. Redshirt means being third string all season, getting less than minimal reps, and not even getting into games that are out of hand, or getting a chance to play if the starter shits the bed/gets hurt.

Lance was second string last season and got those important practice reps, and that pecking order also allowed him to play in parts of two games and also get two starts as well.

All that makes a significant difference towards development than being "redshirted" all season.

This isn't rocket surgery here.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

It doesn't matter where he may have gone in this draft or that draft. If the Steelers thought he was worth a second rounder, they would have waited.

The invested a premium pick in a 24 year old rookie QB. You don't "redshirt" a guy like that unless your org has zero clue how to 1. draft and 2. develop a QB.

Not being the starter and being a "redshirt" are entirely different things. Redshirt means being third string all season, getting less than minimal reps, and not even getting into games that are out of hand, or getting a chance to play if the starter shits the bed/gets hurt.

Lance was second string last season and got those important practice reps, and that pecking order also allowed him to play in parts of two games and also get two starts as well.

All that makes a significant difference towards development than being "redshirted" all season.

This isn't rocket surgery here.

This is the same organization that was going to redshirt Ben who they picked 13 picks higher but batch got hurt in pre season so Ben was QB2 when Maddox got hurt he started camp QB4 behind saint Pierre. Lance isn’t ready you can tell by how his own coaches and and teamates talk about him and he had way less attempts in college than Pickett. There’s no rule saying week 8 Pickett isnt the back up but the organization was willing to go with mason and Haskins before Mitch was signed. He was a priority free agent for them as a guy who was a former top 3 pick. If the 49ers didn’t sell the farn for Lance they would have him sit behind Jimmy g again this year

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

This is the same organization that was going to redshirt Ben who they picked 13 picks higher but batch got hurt in pre season so Ben was QB2 when Maddox got hurt he started camp QB4 behind saint Pierre. Lance isn’t ready you can tell by how his own coaches and and teamates talk about him and he had way less attempts in college than Pickett. There’s no rule saying week 8 Pickett isnt the back up but the organization was willing to go with mason and Haskins before Mitch was signed. He was a priority free agent for them as a guy who was a former top 3 pick. If the 49ers didn’t sell the farn for Lance they would have him sit behind Jimmy g again this year

And we know with 20/20 hindsight sitting BR would have been idiotic. In fact, I’m more than certain they don’t win the SB the next year if BR was “redshirted”.

So not exactly sure what your point is except…. the Steelers are a stupid org? No clue what other point you could be making.

I have no idea if Lance is ready, but you think him sitting longer will help him develop? Uh…. no.

Jimmy G was a train wreck and the 9ers won despite him. So again not sure what point you are even making with him either.

Letting a rookie first round QB be redshirted as a third stringer wastes an entire year of his development.

There is no sound argument that his development won’t be stunted this way.

Not sure how else to get that message across to you.

 

[JTG]

I think George Pickens has 1000 yards receiving this season.