OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Sneaking up onto training camp

[MrBrightside]

The fact that the same fans who experienced the 2023 preseason and saw the correlation, or lack thereof, to the regular season for the offense are now again drawing major conclusions about this season based on the 2024 preseason is kind of silly. No, I don't think the offense is going to be very good, the regression/jerking around of Broderick Jones is disturbing malpractice, the #2 WR spot is the same black hole I predicted it would be back when everyone was dying to trade Johnson back in February, and the QB situation is obviously a mess, but this is an offense with a new OC, a new QB, and playing largely backups in meaningless games. It'll both take some time and preseason is the Twitter of the NFL - it's not real life.

 

[Andy99]

'This Is Not Gonna Work': Analyst Sees 'Carbon Copy' Of Steelers With Same Issues As Years Past

The performance from the Pittsburgh Steelers on Saturday night at Acrisure Stadium agains the Buffalo Bills was a very disappointing, ugly showing all around, especially offensively. The offensive line was a disaster, particularly second-year pro Broderick Jones, who really struggled in pass...

steelersdepot.com

Yep, the Steelers “don’t know quarterbacks “ and they suck with the OL too lol…

 

[JTG]

I'd play Fields and just have him do a bunch of those rollouts that he and Heyward completed the other night.

I want to the dude to work, but I legitimately think he's too athletic and too fast for the position lol. He's in his drop back faster than any QB I've ever seen. You'd think that'd be a good thing, but he's like a sitting duck, which is stressful for the linemen, which creates pressure, which has him making throws he has no business making. Is anyone else else seeing this? His timing is nonexistent.

 

[xlm34]

I'd play Fields and just have him do a bunch of those rollouts that he and Heyward completed the other night.

I want to the dude to work, but I legitimately think he's too athletic and too fast for the position lol. He's in his drop back faster than any QB I've ever seen. You'd think that'd be a good thing, but he's like a sitting duck, which is stressful for the linemen, which creates pressure, which has him making throws he has no business making. Is anyone else else seeing this? His timing is nonexistent.

I haven’t really paid that close of attention but if that is the case, it would be the opposite of all the complaints I’ve heard about him in Chicago. His drop back was apparently absurdly slow which threw off timing. So maybe it’s a case of him over correcting or something?

I’d also play Fields but that’s more to do with my opinion of Wilson than thinking Fields is gonna put things together.

 

[Coastal Kev]

'This Is Not Gonna Work': Analyst Sees 'Carbon Copy' Of Steelers With Same Issues As Years Past

The performance from the Pittsburgh Steelers on Saturday night at Acrisure Stadium agains the Buffalo Bills was a very disappointing, ugly showing all around, especially offensively. The offensive line was a disaster, particularly second-year pro Broderick Jones, who really struggled in pass...

steelersdepot.com

Yep, the Steelers “don’t know quarterbacks “ and they suck with the OL too lol…

And it goes deeper than that. I can understand Tomlin having a blindspot with offense, that could be fixed/helped organizationally. But he sucks on his side of the ball. Look at the lack of depth in the front 7. Tomlin cannot spot talent in the late rounds for his side of the ball and this has led to overpriced FA's and having non-NFL talent on the roster.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

And it goes deeper than that. I can understand Tomlin having a blindspot with offense, that could be fixed/helped organizationally. But he sucks on his side of the ball. Look at the lack of depth in the front 7. Tomlin cannot spot talent in the late rounds for his side of the ball and this has led to overpriced FA's and having non-NFL talent on the roster.

While Tomlin gets SOME blame for the kids that are drafted, it's not 100% his responsibility either.

What I take issue is that the people he is given, he routinely can't spot the best candidate for the roles. Last week I talked about the MR QB fiasco. And now we have the continual musical chairs for the Oline. This shit cannot continue or no matter who their QB is, will get killed.

 

[MrBrightside]

And it goes deeper than that. I can understand Tomlin having a blindspot with offense, that could be fixed/helped organizationally. But he sucks on his side of the ball. Look at the lack of depth in the front 7. Tomlin cannot spot talent in the late rounds for his side of the ball and this has led to overpriced FA's and having non-NFL talent on the roster.

I mean, yes, Tomlin has some input but the fact that the Tomlin-bashing crew acts like he's the GM and that Colbert and Khan are just figureheads or something in an effort to further the agenda is comically bad.

 

[Andy99]

Mark Madden: Steelers' offense is in preseason disarray

It’s convenient to say exhibition play has no bearing on the NFL regular season. It’s even more convenient to expect a switcheroo in form from exhibition games to real ones by remembering that Kenny Pickett had a passer rating of 158.3 in the 2023 preseason, then fell apart when live

triblive.com

 

[Night Shift]

Mark Madden: Steelers' offense is in preseason disarray

It’s convenient to say exhibition play has no bearing on the NFL regular season. It’s even more convenient to expect a switcheroo in form from exhibition games to real ones by remembering that Kenny Pickett had a passer rating of 158.3 in the 2023 preseason, then fell apart when live

triblive.com

I mean what does one expect when you give a below average head coach a 20 year contract?

You get this by year 17.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I mean, yes, Tomlin has some input but the fact that the Tomlin-bashing crew acts like he's the GM and that Colbert and Khan are just figureheads or something in an effort to further the agenda is comically bad.

We don't know what his input is, the Steelers won't say. But I have heard through the years who were "tomlin" picks and they were busts. (Edmunds, Bush, Davis, Jones.)

 

[MrBrightside]

We don't know what his input is, the Steelers won't say. But I have heard through the years who were "tomlin" picks and they were busts. (Edmunds, Bush, Davis, Jones.)

If the Steelers organization is relying upon its head coach rather than its GM and scouts for late round draft choices the issues in the organization are way deeper than Tomlin.

 

[T1K]

I mean, yes, Tomlin has some input but the fact that the Tomlin-bashing crew acts like he's the GM and that Colbert and Khan are just figureheads or something in an effort to further the agenda is comically bad.

They give him no credit for winning a Super Bowl because it was “Cowher’s team”

 

[Coastal Kev]

If the Steelers organization is relying upon its head coach rather than its GM and scouts for late round draft choices the issues in the organization are way deeper than Tomlin.

They have always allowed their coaches to make the final call during the modern era, this has been discussed by many different insiders. See Noll choosing Rivera over Marino. Cowher consulted with Colbert but usually had final say. This continued with Tomlin, sadly they hired a guy who wasn't qualified for his job.

i'm still waiting for one Tomlin's supporters to explain in detail why deserved an extension with a raise.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

They give him no credit for winning a Super Bowl because it was “Cowher’s team”

Well it was just as much Cowher's team just as much as Bylsma won with "Theirren's team".

As we've talked repeatedly about the Pens, the same is true in most professional sports: players tune coaches out eventually. Sometimes that comes in Year 1 bc the coach is shitty (like Mike Johnston), but it generally sets in about Year 4.

So it's not that Tomlin is a bad coach. He just has worn out his welcome here (just like Theirren, Sullivan, etc)

 

[T1K]

Well it was just as much Cowher's team just as much as Bylsma won with "Theirren's team".

As we've talked repeatedly about the Pens, the same is true in most professional sports: players tune coaches out eventually. Sometimes that comes in Year 1 bc the coach is shitty (like Mike Johnston), but it generally sets in about Year 4.

So it's not that Tomlin is a bad coach. He just has worn out his welcome here (just like Theirren, Sullivan, etc)

Bylsma won it the year he replaced MT. Tomlin won it 2 years after he replaced BC. I don’t think it’s all that similar. That’s 2 training camps to make decisions on the final roster.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

From another site. Well stated:
**********************************
Steelers draft Dan Moore back in 2021 in the middle of the 4th round. Due to a lack of better options he becomes the day 1 starter at LT and performs exactly how’d you expect a mid round rookie to perform, mostly shitty. The next year try to move him to RT, but Moore says he can’t play that side and sucks again at LT in 2022

Now identifying LT as a major issue the Steelers move up in round 1 to draft Georgia LT Broderick Jones. They let him rot on the bench for half a season before inserting him at RT. He looks worse there than he did at LT in college, his natural position. Dan Moore can’t switch sides, but your 1st round pick has to.

Now we get to 2024. Steelers again identify the need for a better tackle. They select Troy Fautanu in the first round, another college LT. They go into camp with Dan Moore still the f***ing starter at Lt while the two first round picks they drafted as LTs flounder around swapping reps at RT. Preseason games these guys take RT reps, but word is they may move Jones back to LT for the regular season despite not giving him time there in preseason.

Dan Moore sucks so bad they went and drafted two college LTs in the first round, yet they pushed both of those guys to RT to accommodate a mid round shit bag who is still at LT hampering the development of the two young assets they drafted. Again, they identified that Moore can’t switch sides to RT, but force their 1st round picks to make that switch.

What the hell is wrong with this organization? Either they waste one of the first rounders this season in the bench, or they put one in games at LT after having not played them there all preseason.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Well it was just as much Cowher's team just as much as Bylsma won with "Theirren's team".

As we've talked repeatedly about the Pens, the same is true in most professional sports: players tune coaches out eventually. Sometimes that comes in Year 1 bc the coach is shitty (like Mike Johnston), but it generally sets in about Year 4.

So it's not that Tomlin is a bad coach. He just has worn out his welcome here (just like Theirren, Sullivan, etc)

Tomlin was handed a top 3 Roster with an future HOF QB that had not entered his prime. 2Sb appearances and one win that Ben pulled out of his kiester is what exactly?? Anyone could easily make the argument that a better coach wins allot more with that roster than what Tomlin did.

And yes, when the special Cowher players melted away from that defense, it has become very average. When was the last year they were considered a top 5 D?

 

[TooManyHumans]

I don't understand why continuing to play Jones at RT, where he played well last year, is messing with him or an excuse for him being worse there now than he was last year.

 

[TooManyHumans]

Tomlin was handed a top 3 Roster with an future HOF QB that had not entered his prime. 2Sb appearances and one win that Ben pulled out of his kiester is what exactly?? Anyone could easily make the argument that a better coach wins allot more with that roster than what Tomlin did.

And yes, when the special Cowher players melted away from that defense, it has become very average. When was the last year they were considered a top 5 D?

It depends on what metric you want to use, but they were 3rd in points in 2020 and 5th in points in 2019, also 3rd and 5th in yards those years.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Jones is still 23 he doesn’t turn 24 until after the season he has less snaps at lt in college than both Troy and Moore. Some teams questioned his killer mentality in the draft process and said he plays high and relied heavily on athleticism he is still developing add to the fact the team wants him in a brace for his elbow and he refuses it’s easy to see why he hasn’t been given the Lt job. Starks and other o line men say it can take 3 years to get it at the nfl level so if September he starts out as the swing ot and he and Washington are both monsters in the running game is it a bad thing. He is going to eventually get the LT job

 

[MrBrightside]

It depends on what metric you want to use, but they were 3rd in points in 2020 and 5th in points in 2019, also 3rd and 5th in yards those years.

Yeah, I'm not a Tomlin fan as the way he coaches is the ultimate high floor, low ceiling approach that keeps you in purgatory, and he's far too conservative to win at a high level in the modern NFL. That said, anyone who doesn't recognize that their defenses have generally been quite good the last 10 years is silly, particularly when you consider the misses by Colbert/Tomlin high in the drafts that can decimate franchises - when you use #1's on crap like Burns and Jarvis Jones and Edmunds and Bush (and then add in the Shazier situation) to maintain their level of D is not easy to do.

 

[Night Shift]

It was Lebeau and Arians team. Tomlin watched from the sideline

 

[Peat]

The fact that the same fans who experienced the 2023 preseason and saw the correlation, or lack thereof, to the regular season for the offense are now again drawing major conclusions about this season based on the 2024 preseason is kind of silly. No, I don't think the offense is going to be very good, the regression/jerking around of Broderick Jones is disturbing malpractice, the #2 WR spot is the same black hole I predicted it would be back when everyone was dying to trade Johnson back in February, and the QB situation is obviously a mess, but this is an offense with a new OC, a new QB, and playing largely backups in meaningless games. It'll both take some time and preseason is the Twitter of the NFL - it's not real life.

The thing is you could see exactly what about pre-season might be misleading about the offence in 2023. Pickett was getting very clean pockets that just didn't seem likely to carry over to the regular season given the history of the Canada and the offensive line, and there were obvious big questions about what would happen without them. Opposition defences came harder, as we knew they would, and it all vanished.

What about the current situation suggests the forthcoming big changes are going to work in the Steelers' favour, when opposition defences come harder? Is Smith hiding his best stuff? Are the rookies going to click into place over the next few weeks? Yeah, we can hope for Wilson meshing into the offence more, for guys getting smoother on routes... but defences are going to get better too.

The amount this offence needs to improve in a very short period of time is alarming. There's only so much saying its just pre-season can change that.

 

[Night Shift]

, I'm not a Tomlin fan

Oh stop trying to be coool

 

[TooManyHumans]

The thing is you could see exactly what about pre-season might be misleading about the offence in 2023. Pickett was getting very clean pockets that just didn't seem likely to carry over to the regular season given the history of the Canada and the offensive line, and there were obvious big questions about what would happen without them. Opposition defences came harder, as we knew they would, and it all vanished.

What about the current situation suggests the forthcoming big changes are going to work in the Steelers' favour, when opposition defences come harder? Is Smith hiding his best stuff? Are the rookies going to click into place over the next few weeks? Yeah, we can hope for Wilson meshing into the offence more, for guys getting smoother on routes... but defences are going to get better too.

The amount this offence needs to improve in a very short period of time is alarming. There's only so much saying its just pre-season can change that.

If I completely ignore the preseason, then I am left with what I expected from this offense under Wilson and Fields. Unfortunately that matches what we saw last game. So I can ignore the preseason and still feel no better about this offense.