OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Sneaking up onto training camp

[Empoleon8771]

I am concerned about the offense but it was realistically not going to gel immediately with all of the changes they've made. Going forward, I'm mostly concerned about the lack of WR talent beyond Pickens (although Van Jefferson has apparently been good) and the inexperience of the OL more than anything. The QBs will be an improvement on Pickett, I'm more concerned with whether this team can support the QBs.

This team may really ending up missing DJ just because they don't have any other viable WR targets.

 

[Peat]

If I completely ignore the preseason, then I am left with what I expected from this offense under Wilson and Fields. Unfortunately that matches what we saw last game. So I can ignore the preseason and still feel no better about this offense.

Yeah. I didn't have definite expectations because I'm a boring nerd who believes in range of probabilities, but new OC (whose last stop hated him) + new QB (whose last stops have a lot of criticism) + very raw OL + unproven WR depth is a formula with a very good likelihood of there being a failure somewhere. I prefer to be positive and look at the good moments all of it's had, but it's all there.

If all of the areas fail, or even just one epically fails, then you get what we just saw.

I don't understand why continuing to play Jones at RT, where he played well last year, is messing with him or an excuse for him being worse there now than he was last year.

See this feels like we watched different games. Jones was getting abused in pass protection at RT last year. 5 pressures in that playoff game vs Buffalo.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Yeah, I'm not a Tomlin fan as the way he coaches is the ultimate high floor, low ceiling approach that keeps you in purgatory, and he's far too conservative to win at a high level in the modern NFL. That said, anyone who doesn't recognize that their defenses have generally been quite good the last 10 years is silly, particularly when you consider the misses by Colbert/Tomlin high in the drafts that can decimate franchises - when you use #1's on crap like Burns and Jarvis Jones and Edmunds and Bush (and then add in the Shazier situation) to maintain their level of D is not easy to do.

But have you considered the resources (cap allocation/FA/draft picks) the defense had over those years compared to the offense?

Pretty easy to have a top 5-10 defense when you have high draft picks on that side of the ball.

 

[WickedWrister]

What I find kind of interesting is that in the portion of the Bills-Steelers intrasquad practice that was available to the media, Broderick apparently looked really good in 1 on 1's, specifically against Rousseau. I think they said he won all 3 rep's against him or something like that, I shared that tweet in here.

And then when the reps became real in the game, he got lit up by Rousseau.

Like others have said, he's still the most raw OL in this group so maybe he just needs more live game action. I think there's obviously talent in there, but something just isn't clicking for the guy right now. It's not just one thing you can point to. He had missed assignments in the Texans game as well. He's also got a pretty massive brace on his left arm, so he might be dealing with some physical ailment too . Remember how bad Najee looked when we were hiding his Lisfranc sprain?

I do think it's indefensible that we are catering to Dan Moore Jr's lack of position flexibility over the 2nd highest draft pick we've had in 20 years though.

 

[UnrealMachine]

I think the Steelers are going to have a lights out, top 3 defense this season. They addressed their biggest holes (ILB talent + depth) and the front 7 is tops in the league with a healthy Cam and (I guess?) Larry.

Special teams might be a net positive - which would be dramatically different than last season. No real way to tell how well the Steelers will be at returning kicks, but at least they won’t be punting watermelons.

Offense: tbd. They need a lot of things to gel on the O-line and have already lost a fair bit of folks and time to injury. I think it’s more likely that Jones is injured rather than he’s all of a sudden terrible. Last season was the worst offense I have ever, ever seen and they still posted a Tomlin-approved record. With a better defense, special teams, and… not last year’s offense maybe they win an extra game or two? I’m still optimistic that the Steelers can successfully distract me from my terrible, unfulfilling life for 3 or so hours a week this season.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

We saw jones at lt against Houston and he was struggling in a pass production against backup he isn’t ready for prime time he has a higher ceiling than Moore but Tomlin is always going to go with safer floor to start the season that is why no matter what JF did in camp and preseason the entire month of September was RW starting guarenteed just like moore

 

[WickedWrister]

BB thinks the OL is the biggest problem

 

[MrBrightside]

But have you considered the resources (cap allocation/FA/draft picks) the defense had over those years compared to the offense?

Pretty easy to have a top 5-10 defense when you have high draft picks on that side of the ball.

But the reason the D costs so much is that they draft and develop good players like Watt and Cam and Highsmith and other guys who developed into good players. Minkah was the only big ticket guy they acquired and they did so when he was on his rookie deal. You can't have it both ways - they didn't buy their way into a good defense - they basically just paid their own guys based on good performance.

We saw jones at lt against Houston and he was struggling in a pass production against backup he isn’t ready for prime time he has a higher ceiling than Moore but Tomlin is always going to go with safer floor to start the season that is why no matter what JF did in camp and preseason the entire month of September was RW starting guarenteed just like moore

Punctuation is your friend.

 

[xlm34]

BB thinks the OL is the biggest problem

He’s probably not wrong, but at least unlike previous years it has the potential to turn into something good. When 3/5 of your line is Moore/Cole/Chuks you’re just hoping things aren’t a disaster.

 

[T1K]

BB thinks the OL is the biggest problem

Best part of the clip is when he kept saying “Jones”

 

[WickedWrister]

Best part of the clip is when he kept saying “Jones”

Dan Jones, Broderick Jones, Art Jones

Just sign already bro

 

[TooManyHumans]

Yeah. I didn't have definite expectations because I'm a boring nerd who believes in range of probabilities, but new OC (whose last stop hated him) + new QB (whose last stops have a lot of criticism) + very raw OL + unproven WR depth is a formula with a very good likelihood of there being a failure somewhere. I prefer to be positive and look at the good moments all of it's had, but it's all there.

If all of the areas fail, or even just one epically fails, then you get what we just saw.



See this feels like we watched different games. Jones was getting abused in pass protection at RT last year. 5 pressures in that playoff game vs Buffalo.

So it isn't moving him that's the problem. It's that he's just not very good right now. I wish I trusted the o-line coach to fix him.

 

[T1K]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1825574677433168172

 

[bigdaddyk88]

TikTok - Make Your Day

 

[bigdaddyk88]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10048330-broderick-jones-nfl-draft-2023-scouting-report-for-georgia-ot

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1825574677433168172

If only Yinzer nation was smart enough to realize it's the HC (not the OC) that's pulling the strings.
Just like they were chanting "Fire Hextall". It should be "fire Sullivan"

There must be something in the 3 Rivers that prevents the residents from assigning any blame to the HC

 

[xlm34]

If only Yinzer nation was smart enough to realize it's the HC (not the OC) that's pulling the strings.
Just like they were chanting "Fire Hextall". It should be "fire Sullivan"

There must be something in the 3 Rivers that prevents the residents from assigning any blame to the HC

We must live in different Pittsburghs

 

[Peat]

So it isn't moving him that's the problem. It's that he's just not very good right now. I wish I trusted the o-line coach to fix him.

He is at best inconsistent at RT with some big lows.

We don't know how he is at LT, his natural position and the one the team has trumpeted as his long term spot, because he's had one game there.

We also don't know how much being moved around is hindering his development and how much quicker he might develop if allowed to focus on one side only. He wasn't allowed to specialise last season. He wasn't allowed to specialise this off-season. Every player handles this sort of crap differently. Maybe in the long run we'll find out we worried over nothing... but maybe it's a big deal the team is getting hugely wrong.

This is why which side Jones plays is real important to me. Everyone knew he was a raw guy coming out who needed developing. So far the development has been textbook don't do this and putting him in one place and leaving him there is the best route forward.

 

[WickedWrister]

Poor hand usage was one of the biggest knocks on BJ coming out, fwiw

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

But the reason the D costs so much is that they draft and develop good players like Watt and Cam and Highsmith and other guys who developed into good players. Minkah was the only big ticket guy they acquired and they did so when he was on his rookie deal. You can't have it both ways - they didn't buy their way into a good defense - they basically just paid their own guys based on good performance.

Yes and no.

Look at their big splash in FA this year - went to Queen on Defense. Couple years before they paid Larry Og big dollars too.

When is the last "big splash" on offense this team went with? I'm drawing a blank. Maybe Seumalo or Trubiski, but they didn't sign them for big bucks last offseason.

I get the offense got the attention the past couple of drafts, but that side of the ball hasn't been supplemented by big name players in FA. The offense is extremely young made up mostly of "home grown" guys.

We must live in different Pittsburghs

Well the next time there's a "fire Tomlin" or "fire Sully" chant at the games, please clue me in bc it hasn't happened from what I've heard.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think Watt is actually going to come out of retirement to play for the Steelers, but do they really even have a role for him on the DL (in terms of play style)? I always thought that Watt was more of a pass rusher DE while the Steelers while the Steelers DL are more run stopper types. I thought Watt was more of a 4-3 defense edge rusher, while the Steelers run a 3-4 defense with their OLBs as their main pass rushers.

Imagine him being an OLB with TJ, though. Both Watt brothers as OLB pass rushers would make QBs shit their pants.

 

[Peat]

I feel like where the defensive players come from matters less than whether they stay and how much they get in terms of rating the tools that Tomlin has available to him on this defence.

Which are redonkulus.

And yeah the results are usually good but so they should be. Being a top 5 defence with what's probably a top 5 defence in terms of investment at any given time is, well, things working as intended.

And arguably should get better results than it does vs top offences.

I mean, yeah, fair play on giving him a nod for his role in finding and developing defensive talent. He's been pretty great there even considering the misses.

But when Tuitt suddenly retiring results in giving Ogunjobi a lot of money a season later, or the Holcomb injury results in Patrick Queen, while Pouncey's retirement results in a 3rd round pick followed by Mason Cole and Diontae Johnson is traded for a CB2 and replaced by Van Jefferson... then there's only so much credit I'm going to give for the defence good. Holes always get money thrown at them. Guard aside, the offence just gets draft picks and bargain bin pick-ups.

 

[WickedWrister]

Yeah we have the most expensive defense in the NFL (by far), and the cheapest offense, but I think that's partly a function of our last 4 first round picks not getting paid yet. And only have a $6m QB room when league average is like $25m.

I also think there's been a more recent trend league wide to lock up players early on the offensive side of the ball and not let them get to FA. There was maaaybe one marquee tackle on the market this year in Jonah Williams and he got 15m per.

 

[WickedWrister]

But when Tuitt suddenly retiring results in giving Ogunjobi a lot of money a season later, or the Holcomb injury results in Patrick Queen, while Pouncey's retirement results in a 3rd round pick followed by Mason Cole and Diontae Johnson is traded for a CB2 and replaced by Van Jefferson... then there's only so much credit I'm going to give for the defence good. Holes always get money thrown at them. Guard aside, the offence just gets draft picks and bargain bin pick-ups.

Ehhh not sure I agree with all this. How you spend draft capital is more important than plugging holes in FA. I just think it's easier to do that on the defensive side of the ball.

Ben-1st round pick on Pickett and pairing him with a weapon in Pickens
Cole-2nd round pick on Frazier
B2B first round picks on Tackles.
1st round pick on an RB and 2nd on a TE.

I'm not saying that you're saying this, but I don't think it's fair to say we've ignored the offense.

 

[WickedWrister]

Now if we give Heyward a sweeheart deal instead of allocating that money more wisely, I might be signing a different tune. But I think our positional spending will look pretty different in 1-2 years when you factor in who all needs to get paid.