GDT: The Pittsburgher Thread - Here we go!

[Harvey Birdman]

What makes you think all of these guys are living extravagant lifestyles? You don’t seem to understand who makes up the lion’s share of votes here.

A majority of these guys grew up poor and have family members they are helping out, plus their own bills, then they get slammed with taxes.

The avg NFL player, who again makes up the bulk of the votes, has a 3-5 year window to make as much money as he can to sustain himself long term and take care of his family.

Then you want him to sit out the 2-3 years it might take just to get the owners to budge?

And how many of these guys would have jobs to come back to after 2-3 years?

Not much realism going on up in here.

With all that then spend more intelligently. I do not care the background of someone. Hand any human on the planet over 500k and they can not sustain themselves for the time periods we are talking about. They are shitty with their money and I do not have to feel bad about their situation.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

With all that then spend more intelligently. I do not care the background of someone. Hand any human on the planet over 500k and they can not sustain themselves for the time periods we are talking about. They are shitty with their money and I do not have to feel bad about their situation.

Ya, you aren’t paying attention.

This isn’t about yearly expenses, it’s about maxing out their earnings in a very small window - to help sustain them, their children and other loved ones for the rest of their lives.

Yet you are ok with them losing a majority of that window because you want championships or something?

Like they give a damn.

And once again how many guys would have a job after holding out 2-3 years? So basically hundreds of these guys lose their entire window permanently.

It’s pretty easy to sit on the sideline and tell these guys to piss away their best chance to ever make this kind of money.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

Ya, you aren’t paying attention.

This isn’t about yearly expenses, it’s about maxing out their earnings in a very small window - to help sustain them and their children for the rest of their lives.

Yet you are ok with them losing a majority of that window because you want championships or something?

And once again how many guys would have a job after holding out 2-3 years? So basically these guys lose their entire window.

It’s pretty easy to sit on the sideline and tell these guys to piss away their best chance to ever make this kind of money.

No. Where I am at with their money and being able to support themselves for 12, 24, 34. In a lock out to fight for a better CBA, if you spend as such that you couldn’t support yourself then I don’t have to feel bad for you and any complaints about a CBA fall on deaf ears to me. And their earning potential isn’t going to mean much anyways if they’d be broke in 12, 24, 36 months if the checks stopped anyways.

So with franchise tags, no guaranteed contracts, etc with the CBA. If the players can’t put themselves in a position for fight for a better CBA on their salaries. Then I want to hear no complaints about their contract structures or deals.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

No. Where I am at with their money and being able to support themselves for 12, 24, 34. In a lock out to fight for a better CBA, if you spend as such that you couldn’t support yourself then I don’t have to feel bad for you and any complaints about a CBA fall on deaf ears to me. And their earning potential isn’t going to mean much anyways if they’d be broke in 12, 24, 36 months if the checks stopped anyways.

So with franchise tags, no guaranteed contracts, etc with the CBA. If they players can’t put themselves in a position for fight for a better CBA on their salaries. Then I want to hear no complaints about their contract structures or deals.

How are you not grasping this bro?

The owners can literally hold out for several years with their war chest.

You are Joe Blow avg NFLer, who makes up the bulk of the vote, and you would piss away 70-80% of your career earning window and risk possibly having no job to walk back into?

Again, stop thinking like a selfish fan and think like a typical NFLer in an impossible situation.

Then you might finally see it.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

How are you not grasping this bro?

The owners can literally hold out for several years with their war chest.

You are Joe Blow avg NFLer, who makes up the bulk of the vote, and you would piss away 70-80% of you career earning window and risk possibly having no job to walk back into?

Again, stop thinking like a selfish fan and think like a typical NFLer.

Then you might finally see it.

I’m not being selfish. I’m just saying I don’t have to feel bad for them. The two are not bound together. If the CBA situation is so bad, that they have to complain about it and do not like it. But will do nothing to change it. I don’t have to feel bad for them. Go out there and play the game then and earn the contract that they themselves signed. If changing the rules of those contracts does not mean anything for them, or having earning in the current structure is more important than restructuring said CBA. Then again. Do not have to feel bad for them. If they have an in ability to take one year of a NFL salary at league minimum and not be able to last a lock out. I don’t have to feel bad for you.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I’m not being selfish. I’m just saying I don’t have to feel bad for them. The two are not mutually exclusive. If the CBA situation is so bad, that they have to complain about it and do not like it. But will do nothing to change it. I don’t have to feel bad for them. Go out there and play the game then and earn the contract that they themselves signed. If changing the rules of those contracts does not mean anything for them, or having earning in the current structure is more important than restructuring said CBA. Then again. Do not have to feel bad for them. If they have an in ability to take one year of a NFL salary at league minimum and not be able to last a lock out. I don’t have to feel bad for you.

This has been going on for decades and there is literally no way to force the owners hand unless players hold out for around 3-4 years at least.

That’s about what it would take to give the players any kind of leverage.

You need to fully grasp that reality if we are going to have a genuine discussion here, or this will just go in circles.

By then how many typical NFLers careers would be over and their career earning window pissed away?

Would you personally risk your family’s security and everything you worked your entire life for - to get guaranteed contracts and other concessions for future generations of players?

Then oh ya, hope about 70-80% of players in your situation feel the same so that the voting margin holds.

 

[JTG]

I can't remember the last time I have been as excited to watch one particular player as I am to watch Najee Harris.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

This has been going on for decades and there is literally no way to force the owners hand unless players hold out for around 3-4 years at least.

That’s about what it would take to give the players any kind of leverage.

You need to fully grasp that reality if we are going to have a genuine discussion here, or this will just go in circles.

By then how many typical NFLers careers would be over and their career earning window pissed away?

Would you personally risk your family’s security and everything you worked your entire life for - to get guaranteed contracts and other concessions for future generations of players?

Then oh ya, hope about 70-80% of players in your situation feel the same so that the voting margin holds.

That’s their sword to fall on. Choose a different walk in life then. But I hear so many players and fans complain for the players about the CBA, okay, do something about it then. If you plant your feet in the sand both in not trying to fight for a better position on the preverbal chess board and say you’ll be back tomorrow to play the same chess game. I don’t have to feel bad for you. Period.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

What makes you think all of these guys are living extravagant lifestyles? You don’t seem to understand who makes up the lion’s share of votes here.

A majority of these guys grew up poor and have family members they are helping out, plus their own bills, then they get slammed with taxes.

The avg NFL player, who again makes up the bulk of the votes, has a 3-5 year window to make as much money as he can to sustain himself long term and take care of his family.

Then you want him to sit out the 2-3 years it might take just to get the owners to budge?

And how many of these guys would have jobs to come back to after 2-3 years?

Not much realism going on up in here.

i dont particularly care what they do or don't do or there situation.

im commenting on the concept that their situation is in any way comparable as someone with a regular job.

I grew up a kid that had to know what the shitty side of a workers strike looks like. So i couldn't care less about either the billionaires or league min guy that just made 600k during a strike.

if you cant make that kind of money hold you over its because you made bad decisions even if well intended

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Also there is zero chance the league would allow a strike to continue for 2-3 years. At some points irreparable harm is done even to the nfl

 

[Harvey Birdman]

Also there is zero chance the league would allow a strike to continue for 2-3 years. At some points irreparable harm is done even to the nfl

Exactly.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

That’s their sword to fall on. Choose a different walk in life then. But I hear so many players and fans complain for the players about the CBA, okay, do something about it then. If you plant your feet in the sand both in not trying to fight for a better position on the preverbal chess board and say you’ll be back tomorrow to play the same chess game. I don’t have to feel bad for you. Period.

Why is it their sword to fall on? That is so weak and irrational… that’s fan logic and I told you to take that hat off.

It’s so easy to tell them what to do when it’s not your own family and future security at stake.

If it was, once again your tune would be much different I suspect.

Also there is zero chance the league would allow a strike to continue for 2-3 years. At some points irreparable harm is done even to the nfl

Players could never hold out that long - that is the entire point here people.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

Why is it their sword to fall on? That is so weak and irrational… that’s fan logic and I told you to take that hat off.

It’s so easy to tell them what to do when it’s not your own family and future security at stake.

If it was, once again your tune would be much different I suspect.



Players could never hold out that long - that is the entire point here people.

I could sustain my family, 3 children and a wife, with zero percent change in life style for 36 months off of half of NFL league minimum salary. They can’t asset manage to be able to survive 36 months for better contacts or CBA, and they choose to stay that path, that’s their sword to fall on then. And I do not have to pity them or care about their complaints.

 

[xlm34]

I can't remember the last time I have been as excited to watch one particular player as I am to watch Najee Harris.

Yeah he’s just going to be so fun to watch.

There’s actually a lot to look forward to I think. I’m really interested in seeing how Moore/Dotson/Green perform.

 

[Arkadiusz]

Also there is zero chance the league would allow a strike to continue for 2-3 years. At some points irreparable harm is done even to the nfl

It would take a massive war chest by players union to pay out player salaries for those years, especially rookies OR a leader with the stones to form an alternate league. They are not nearly organized and unified to do this so pretty much a pipe dream…

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I could sustain my family, 3 children and a wife, with zero percent change in life style for 36 months off of half of NFL league minimum salary. They can’t asset manage to be able to survive 36 months for better contacts or CBA, and they choose to stay that path, that’s their sword to fall on then. And I do not have to pity them or care about their complaints.

You simply can’t take off your selfish fan hat or you are being deliberately obtuse.

There is zero chance you would put your own family at such risk. There is zero chance you would piss away your prime earning years on an unwinnable fight.

So the tough talk about sword falling is comical. You wouldn’t do it either, and no sane person would.

And as far as this lifestyle talk goes - I guarantee there is a single mom of three out there trying to survive off minimum wage and food stamps, who would think your lifestyle and mine is outrageous and wasteful.

And I’m actually pretty damn good with my money, but I doubt the single mom would approve of how much I spend each season alone just on my daughter’s travel hockey.

However, that’s my money and no one has a right to judge me or tell me how to spend it (except my wife).

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

It’s pretty easy to sit on the sideline and tell these guys to piss away their best chance to ever make this kind of money.

Then the union is doing right by its members in keeping those paychecks coming and avoiding a lockout.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Then the union is doing right by its members in keeping those paychecks coming and avoiding a lockout.

I don’t know if I can agree with the union doing right by it’s members as there is so much corruption going on, but keeping the paychecks going is extremely vital to the players long term security.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Why is it their sword to fall on? That is so weak and irrational… that’s fan logic and I told you to take that hat off.

It’s so easy to tell them what to do when it’s not your own family and future security at stake.

If it was, once again your tune would be much different I suspect.



Players could never hold out that long - that is the entire point here people.

the point im making is neither can the league.

no way in hell they ever let a work stoppage go over 1 season.

Over 1 season and too much damage is done.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

the point im making is neither can the league.

no way in hell they ever let a work stoppage go over 1 season.

Over 1 season and too much damage is done.

The owners are billionaires, and they got that way by being all about business.

They would shut the league down much longer than you think to avoid the losses they would incur with guaranteed contracts.

However, the players could never survive beyond a season, and the owners could do that without even blinking.

So it’s all a moot point because the owners have and will always have an incredibly lopsided advantage in these negotiations due to that reality.

 

[JTG]

Yeah he’s just going to be so fun to watch.

There’s actually a lot to look forward to I think. I’m really interested in seeing how Moore/Dotson/Green perform.

I agree. If Najee can come in and impact the running game, he's going to make everyone look so much better around him. It will be interesting to see the linebacking corps, even though it would be more fun if Highsmith was healthy. I think his season is f***ed, to be honest. Groin injuries take so long to heal and for the player to be back at 100%. Thankfully we have Ingram. I'm really curious to see how Dan Moore performs. What a find t hat would be if we can pull a starting LT in the 4th round that starts from day 1.

I'm shocked they kept Washington and didn't find a deal for him.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

The owners are billionaires, and they got that way by being all about business.

They would shut the league down much longer than you think to avoid the losses they would incur with guaranteed contracts.

However, the players could never survive beyond a season, and the owners could do that without even blinking.

So it’s all a moot point because the owners have and will always have an incredibly lopsided advantage in these negotiations due to that reality.

nah they wouldnt lose that much miney with guarenteed contracts. They just wouldnt be able to easily replace guys that suck all of a sudden, like they do now.

its a lot more complicated that NFL has x dollars in the bank, they can hold longer. They also have a lot more to lose and more obligations to fulfill contracts with sponsors, TV networks etc.

There is Zero percent chance a lockout/strike would last more than a season. And even that is the nuclear option.

These teams are generally spending their cap money. They are just deferring money from one set of players to other when a guy gets released.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

You simply can’t take off your selfish fan hat or you are being deliberately obtuse.

There is zero chance you would put your own family at such risk. There is zero chance you would piss away your prime earning years on an unwinnable fight.

So the tough talk about sword falling is comical. You wouldn’t do it either, and no sane person would.

And as far as this lifestyle talk goes - I guarantee there is a single mom of three out there trying to survive off minimum wage and food stamps, who would think your lifestyle and mine is outrageous and wasteful.

And I’m actually pretty damn good with my money, but I doubt the single mom would approve of how much I spend each season alone just on my daughter’s travel hockey.

However, that’s my money and no one has a right to judge me or tell me how to spend it (except my wife).

You are creating a straw man with the single mom analogy. The single mom is not making at minimum over half a million in salary within 12 months. And again the the lowest paid full time roster spot. My point is, I don’t have to feel bad for the players at all. Not that the CBA is not favorable to the owners. It is. That the billionaire owners do not hold an advantage. They do. That it would not be a huge financial risk pushing a lock out. It would.

My point is, if the paychecks are worth not going against all that. The paychecks are good enough to shrug all that off and keep showing up. Then I do not want to hear pissing and moaning about the CBA from players or fans complaining about the contracts for the players. Because you are just whining and wasting oxygen complaining about something you ether won’t do anything about. Or will not walk away from. So why should I care? I should not. And won’t.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I don't feel bad for the players, but I still don't hold it against them if they have gotten themselves enough leverage to get themselves more money. For the most part the owners have them over a barrel, but if a player personally has the leverage so that he can hold out and get himself a better contract, good for him.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

nah they wouldnt lose that much miney with guarenteed contracts. They just wouldnt be able to easily replace guys that suck all of a sudden, like they do now.

its a lot more complicated that NFL has x dollars in the bank, they can hold longer. They also have a lot more to lose and more obligations to fulfill contracts with sponsors, TV networks etc.

There is Zero percent chance a lockout/strike would last more than a season. And even that is the nuclear option.

These teams are generally spending their cap money. They are just deferring money from one set of players to other when a guy gets released.

Nah, you are wrong, sorry. You don’t understand the scope of things when you make these types of comments.

If the players somehow miraculously got all 1700 players to stand their ground on guaranteed contracts and risk their long term security, there would be a lockout like this league has never seen.

The owners would take a temporary public relations hit and lockout for a couple seasons to ensure they don’t make concessions that would have long term effects for their league.

Guaranteed contracts are non-negotiable with the owners. That means they will never budge on the issue and the players can’t do jack shit about it.

The fans would be back, sponsors would be back, but they know when they make concessions like guaranteed contacts, it will cost them billons of dollars over the long term.

It’s a concession they could then never take back.

Just like when the owners said the 17 game schedule is non-negotiable, that’s it. Game over and the players can’t do a thing about it.

They know it. So do the owners.