GDT: The Pittsburgher Thread - Here we go!

[Harvey Birdman]

Why would they shut up about it when it’s true that they are being f***ed?

Judge rules NFL violated agreement with union in TV deals

“Oops we didn’t know that didn’t benefit the players to!”

Then they went and did it again with the latest deal and skirted around the litigation.

This isn’t about millionaires and billionaires to players, it’s about your bosses f***ing you over, knowing they can get away with it, corrupting the shit out of your union and you having only one legit way to get your full worth.

Then do something about it. Or do something else. If you keep coming back. I don’t have to feel sorry for you. It’s as simple as that.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Then do something about it. Or do something else. If you keep coming back. I don’t have to feel sorry for you. It’s as simple as that.

I think we’ve reach the point in this discussion where it’s quite obvious you are going to just continue to deny everything that has been laid out for you.

When someone can’t take their fan hat off, there is no way to make them understand the reality of the player’s situation.

So best to end it - again.

 

[OnMyOwn]

Holly balls guys, how many pages can this debate last? Haha

 

[Ogrezilla]

Holly balls guys, how many pages can this debate last? Haha

No you

 

[ChaosAgent]

The player's union should be focused on:

1) Increasing salary caps/floors
2) Increasing how lucrative the pension & post-retirement health care plans are, and how easy it is to qualify for them.

Guaranteed contracts would be a distant 3rd given that it's just moving the $ owed to the players around. Maybe some players are salty about $ being "taken" from them, but if they took a wider perspective they'd see that $ went to someone else. Probably as many players have benefitted from contracts not being guaranteed as have lost money from it.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

I think we’ve reach the point in this discussion where it’s quite obvious you are going to just continue to deny everything that has been laid out for you.

When someone can’t take their fan hat off, there is no way to make them understand the reality of the player’s situation.

So best to end it - again.

We just have different opinions and views on the matter. That’s fine. Good talk.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

The player's union should be focused on:

1) Increasing salary caps/floors
2) Increasing how lucrative the pension & post-retirement health care plans are, and how easy it is to qualify for them.

Guaranteed contracts would be a distant 3rd given that it's just moving the $ owed to the players around. Maybe some players are salty about $ being "taken" from them, but if they took a wider perspective they'd see that $ went to someone else. Probably as many players have benefitted from contracts not being guaranteed as have lost money from it.

Same as in baseball, and prior to the cap in the NHL. Put the talent pool on a scale from 1 to 10 just for the sake of simplicity with this description. The majority of players 6-10 on talent/skill do not want a cap, because no cap allows them to max out any salary they could get per year. And majority of the 1-5 talent/skill players want it because it would lock in salaries for them and stabilize them. But the higher end players do not want salaries on less of a steep tilt because it means their max possible salary per year being lowered. Now this is a extremely simplified explanation of the internal player debate of cap or no cap. Because different leagues have different rules on year to year salary structure… etc. Etc. But regardless of the over simplification… Round and round it goes.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

We just have different opinions and views on the matter. That’s fine. Good talk.

Ya it was a good discussion and I get your side since I used to be a really serious fan way back and thought in a similar manner - I just think differently these days and am not as passionate about the NFL anymore.

Probably part of the Tomlin Purgatory effect and getting older.

Either way it is much easier to remove my fan hat because I’m relatively indifferent these days.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

Ya it was a good discussion and I get your side since I used to be a really serious fan way back and thought in a similar manner - I just think differently these days and am not as passionate about the NFL anymore.

Probably part of the Tomlin Purgatory effect and getting older.

Either way it is much easier to remove my fan hat because I’m relatively indifferent these days.

I’m heading that way also. But for some the same and some different reasons as well as getting older. My mid 20’s I was a headcase level fan. Black and gold every game day down on Carson or up on Mt Washington. Now just a couple of years from 40. I love more of where the team was and what it was. Than where it’s headed and what it’s become. Maybe when the Tomlin era is over I’ll shift the other way. Who knows. More and more I’m only hardcore following hockey these days and even that has changed a bit. I even stopped my fantasy league, I had a league I managed for almost a decade and I finally just said I’m good and don’t even play at all currently.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I’m heading that way also. But for some the same and some different reasons as well as getting older. My mid 20’s I was a headcase level fan. Black and gold every game day down on Carson or up on Mt Washington. Now just a couple of years from 40. I love more of where the team was and what it was. Than where it’s headed and what it’s become. Maybe when the Tomlin era is over I’ll shift the other way. Who knows. More and more I’m only hardcore following hockey these days. I even stopped my fantasy league, I had a league I managed for almost a decade and I finally just said I’m good and don’t even play at all currently.

I could never do fantasy sports myself - I did it once as a teen and drafted a stacked team but I hated all of the players.

Just wasn’t fun rooting for guys I despised and there were other things I wanted to do with my time, like play lots of Socom and wreck fools.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

You keep trying to run numbers you don’t know - so how can you pretend to evaluate the impact guaranteed contracts would have on an owner?

You are not taking into account how this new dead money would effect rosters and the product on the field - now your front office can no longer manipulate the cap without restructuring and bonus payments.

There is no way to account for the loss of revenue for an owner now being handcuffed into an inferior product due to a concession he foolishly agreed to.

It would be billions and billons of dollars for these owners over an indefinite time period as I keep trying to explain.

And there is no way the dead money would be assumed outside of the cap, because hell would freeze over before the majority of owners would be stupid enough to agree to that.

There is a reason this fight has been going on longer than most of us have been alive, and it will never be conceded by the owners as I keep saying.

And the owners aren’t pissing away as much money as you want to believe should a work stoppage happen.

The sneaky work stop provisions the owners build into their network deals help them to keep getting paid and building their war chests.

Dude your just plain wrong about the numbers. Its nominal short term and long term doesnt matter. They can kick the can until it becomes a problem and then lock the players out.

There is zero reason to coat themselves hundreds of million to billions for no reason.

Guaranteeing a contract doesnt add expense, it just limits your options on how you spend it.

good lord. Its not hard.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Dude your just plain wrong about the numbers. Its nominal short term and long term doesnt matter. They can kick the can until it becomes a problem and then lock the players out.

There is zero reason to coat themselves hundreds of million to billions for no reason.

Guaranteeing a contract doesnt add expense, it just limits your options on how you spend it.

good lord. Its not hard.

The NFL has the highest risk of injury for players in any of the four major sports - that makes guaranteed NFL deals extremely high risk for not only being dead money within the cap, but extra money out of the owners pockets to safeguard agt players having a career ending injury.

That dead money is going to add up quickly without being able to restructure deals and create the funny money back end deals.

Where is your cap flexibility coming from without restructures and bonuses?

Are the owners also going to just casually agree to get rid of the fully funded rule also? Sure why not…

You are also trying to claim the owners won’t lose billions long term to players who sustain career ending injuries which will have to be outside the cap structure?

The insurance expenses covering all those deals would be stupid high. Insurance costs to cover these types of of guaranteed contracts has tripled in the last 15 years, but I’m sure the costs will just go down from here on out and not keep skyrocketing…

Then what happens when a player who you didn’t designate to be insured, goes down with a career ending injury?

Guess who is on the hook for that guaranteed deal now.

And for about the tenth time, the owners have work stoppage provisions built into their network deals that help build their war chests real time during a lockout while the players get shit.

It’s not difficult to understand why the owners will never assume the risk of guaranteed contracts and it’s always been a non starter every time the NFLPA come to the negotiating table.

 

[ImporterExporter]

And numerous embarrassing 1st round exists from the playoffs all up in there.

But hey, let's give the man an extension.

Merit/

 

[Night Shift]

We are overdue for a Clown debate


In fact The crew is heading up to Buffalo now as we speak.

 

[Night Shift]

And numerous embarrassing 1st round exists from the playoffs all up in there.

But hey, let's give the man an extension.

Merit/

Not his fault. He's a clown. Clowns can juggle but They do not throw red challenge flags

 

[JTG]

Yeah groin injuries tend to linger. And it’s a shame because there was so much hype around Highsmith. It seemed pretty well deserved too.

I get Washington’s frustration but I’m happy they’re keeping him. If one of the top 3 guys get hurt, I’d hate to have to replace one of them with McCloud.

I disagreed initially, but I have a friend who was so against JuJu being brought back because it was keeping Washington down. The longer I think about it, the more I tend to agree. Johnson, Washington, and Claypool would have been just as productive with Washington instead of JuJu. The issue comes if someone gets hurt. I also don't think we would get anything for Washington, but we would probably get a 3rd round comp pick for JuJu.

 

[Pens x]

I can’t decide whether we somehow make it a close game or lose by 10+ points. It seems so Tomlin-like to win this game only to lose next week at home against the Raiders.

Which Big Ben will show up today?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Which Big Ben will show up today?

Pretty sure that’s up the o-line if anything.

 

[Night Shift]

I can’t decide whether we somehow make it a close game or lose by 10+ points. It seems so Tomlin-like to win this game only to lose next week at home against the Raiders.

You actually think he made a game plan for Josh Allen? You know Its beat your man, attrition, iron sharpens iron ECT ect like every year

 

[Pens x]

You actually think he made a game plan for Josh Allen? You know Its beat your man, attrition, iron sharpens iron ECT ect like every year

I mean he’s had months to prepare for this game. It just seems so Tomlin like to lose this game by like 3 points and then get blown out next week against a mediocre team.

 

[LOGiK]

The steelers bills game today is the most expensive tickets out of all the other nfl games today... vegas game tomorrow is the only one to top them in price...

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

You actually think he made a game plan for Josh Allen? You know Its beat your man, attrition, iron sharpens iron ECT ect like every year

Tomlin is 0-2 agt McDermott since he became Bills coach so… we’ll see.

 

[LOGiK]

Ya it was a good discussion and I get your side since I used to be a really serious fan way back and thought in a similar manner - I just think differently these days and am not as passionate about the NFL anymore.

Probably part of the Tomlin Purgatory effect and getting older.

Either way it is much easier to remove my fan hat because I’m relatively indifferent these days.

That's how I feel about sports as well the older I get. Never really was at the point in the NFL that I followed and could name entire teams though, but actually 'watched' the games.... NHL I used to be able to name every player on every team - mostly because of playing NHL 2k games so damn much...

NHL at least I can get a game watched in around 150 minutes-ish. NFL I just can't sit down for 3 to 4 hours straight staring at 2-3 hours of commercials for a 60 minute game that has 10 minutes on average worth of action.
Now I mostly watch by dvr or streaming some way afterwards... watch an entire game worth of the action points in 30 minutes....

That reminds me I thought the league said they were looking to speed the game up in the years to come, this was a few years ago. Doesn't seem to me like the average game time went any lower... and I don't see how the NFL would just get rid of that advertising money.

 

[JTG]

I can’t decide whether we somehow make it a close game or lose by 10+ points. It seems so Tomlin-like to win this game only to lose next week at home against the Raiders.

Which Big Ben will show up today?

There is a lot that will come to the surface today, mainly the offensive line and the CB2 spot. If Ben doesn't have time to throw and Najee has no holes to run through, it's going to be a rough season.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

There is a lot that will come to the surface today, mainly the offensive line and the CB2 spot. If Ben doesn't have time to throw and Najee has no holes to run through, it's going to be a rough season.

I think the line will get better as the season goes along - but in the first 7-8 games it could be an adventure.