OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Doritos Bowl Match Up - Taylor Swift vs San Andreas Fault

[Empoleon8771]

This isn't a defense of signing Smith, I need to gather more information, but I think it's important to note that a shitty HC doesn't mean a guy would be a shitty OC. As an OC with Tennessee, the Titans were legitimately good offensively::

-2019: 12th in total yards, 2nd in rushing yards, 21st in passing yards and 10th in points
-2020: 2nd in total yards, 2nd in rush yards, 23rd in passing yards and 4th in points

The Titans in his 2 years as OC were a terrific running team with an opportunistic and safe passing game (31st and 30th in pass attempts, but 8th in TDs and top-5 in INTs in both years). Isn't that kinda exactly what this team is trying to build?

Smith was objectively horrendous in Atlanta, there isn't a single argument against that. But I wouldn't want to write him off for an OC position just because he was a miserable failure as a HC.

 

[JTG]

This isn't a defense of signing Smith, I need to gather more information, but I think it's important to note that a shitty HC doesn't mean a guy would be a shitty OC. As an OC with Tennessee, the Titans were legitimately good offensively::

-2019: 12th in total yards, 2nd in rushing yards, 21st in passing yards and 10th in points
-2020: 2nd in total yards, 2nd in rush yards, 23rd in passing yards and 4th in points

The Titans in his 2 years as OC were a terrific running team with an opportunistic and safe passing game (31st and 30th in pass attempts, but 8th in TDs and top-5 in INTs in both years). Isn't that kinda exactly what this team is trying to build?

Smith was objectively horrendous in Atlanta, there isn't a single argument against that. But I wouldn't want to write him off for an OC position just because he was a miserable failure as a HC.

Lebeau was damaged HC goods. Dude just kicked ass as a DC.

Also not defending Smith, but Atlanta's QB was as much, if not more of a shit show than ours. Canada gets a lot of blame, but as we know, if the QB doesn't come to play it does not matter. Tennessee's defense is about what I'd picture our offense being here at best. With the defense, they could really bury most teams with that recipe. The ones they can't bury will inevitably be 2-8 or some shit.

 

[T1K]

This isn't a defense of signing Smith, I need to gather more information, but I think it's important to note that a shitty HC doesn't mean a guy would be a shitty OC. As an OC with Tennessee, the Titans were legitimately good offensively::

-2019: 12th in total yards, 2nd in rushing yards, 21st in passing yards and 10th in points
-2020: 2nd in total yards, 2nd in rush yards, 23rd in passing yards and 4th in points

The Titans in his 2 years as OC were a terrific running team with an opportunistic and safe passing game (31st and 30th in pass attempts, but 8th in TDs and top-5 in INTs in both years). Isn't that kinda exactly what this team is trying to build?

Smith was objectively horrendous in Atlanta, there isn't a single argument against that. But I wouldn't want to write him off for an OC position just because he was a miserable failure as a HC.

They could do worse than Smith, but I’m not very hyped about him either. They beat up on the weakest division in the league while having prime Derrick Henry.

 

[Peat]

This isn't a defense of signing Smith, I need to gather more information, but I think it's important to note that a shitty HC doesn't mean a guy would be a shitty OC. As an OC with Tennessee, the Titans were legitimately good offensively::

-2019: 12th in total yards, 2nd in rushing yards, 21st in passing yards and 10th in points
-2020: 2nd in total yards, 2nd in rush yards, 23rd in passing yards and 4th in points

The Titans in his 2 years as OC were a terrific running team with an opportunistic and safe passing game (31st and 30th in pass attempts, but 8th in TDs and top-5 in INTs in both years). Isn't that kinda exactly what this team is trying to build?

Smith was objectively horrendous in Atlanta, there isn't a single argument against that. But I wouldn't want to write him off for an OC position just because he was a miserable failure as a HC.

Yeah, and that's the problem. That the Steelers have been trying to build something limited and might be about to double down on that rather than taking this chance to build something more.

There might be no better OC for squeezing the most out of what the Steelers have in terms of next season. But in terms of building something better for the future, he induces worry.

 

[MrBrightside]

Yeah, and that's the problem. That the Steelers have been trying to build something limited and might be about to double down on that rather than taking this chance to build something more.

There might be no better OC for squeezing the most out of what the Steelers have in terms of next season. But in terms of building something better for the future, he induces worry.

Hiring Arthur Smith is the perfect guy if you want to win every game 16-13 and finish 9-8. He's perfect.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah, and that's the problem. That the Steelers have been trying to build something limited and might be about to double down on that rather than taking this chance to build something more.

There might be no better OC for squeezing the most out of what the Steelers have in terms of next season. But in terms of building something better for the future, he induces worry.

But there is no way that this team is in a position to "build something more", so it makes more sense to build to their strengths than not.

They're not getting a new QB this off-season, and I'd bet that they're not going to get a new QB next off-season unless Pickett implodes. Do they need an upgrade at QB? Of course, but if you can't get an upgrade at QB, you can't just throw your arms up and say "shit, I can't do anything". You have to build for the best you can reasonably achieve.

What Tennessee did with Smith as OC is reasonably the best case scenario for the Steelers in the near term window: a top tier running team with an opportunistic and safe passing game. In his 2 years in Tennessee, they averaged 21 points/game in the playoffs (85 points in 4 games) and made the conference championship in 2019. Is that enough to win with? Probably not, but building anything more than that in the short term isn't in the cards.

 

[T1K]

Arthur Smith has a proven track record of having an elite run game. Maybe that’s what we should be building for anyways since we aren’t going to beat Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, etc in a shootout. The Steelers need to play an old school style to be competitive next year.

Run Najee to the ground.

 

[WickedWrister]

But there is no way that this team is in a position to "build something more", so it makes more sense to build to their strengths than not.

They're not getting a new QB this off-season, and I'd bet that they're not going to get a new QB next off-season unless Pickett implodes. Do they need an upgrade at QB? Of course, but if you can't get an upgrade at QB, you can't just throw your arms up and say "shit, I can't do anything". You have to build for the best you can reasonably achieve.

What Tennessee did with Smith as OC is reasonably the best case scenario for the Steelers in the near term window: a top tier running team with an opportunistic and safe passing game. In his 2 years in Tennessee, they averaged 21 points/game in the playoffs (85 points in 4 games) and made the conference championship in 2019. Is that enough to win with? Probably not, but building anything more than that in the short term isn't in the cards.

Realistically, this team probably needs to just bottom out and finish with a top 10ish pick where we can trade up and take a potential franchise QB. Barring a TJ Watt season ending injury in training camp, that's probably not in our range of outcomes next year though. Defense is still probably too good (with an improving Porter Jr. and Benton should help with Cam Heywards decline).

Only way I'm even remotely excited about getting Arthur Smith is if we get Justin Fields for cheap and go all in on the rushing attack. 550+ rushing attempt kinda shit. At least with a dual threat at QB that offense is more dangerous on paper. Unrealistic scenario at this time though.

Arthur Smith has a proven track record of having an elite run game. Maybe that’s what we should be building for anyways since we aren’t going to beat Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, etc in a shootout. The Steelers need to play an old school style to be competitive next year.

Run Najee to the ground.

Najee is a solid running back but nowhere near a game breaking talent like Smith had w/ prime Derrick Henry. Didn't need to take him in the 1st in 2021 and continuing to build our whole offense around him is so silly lol.

I said this before but I think what excited people about hiring a McVay or Shanny disciple was that it would be viewed as a big departure from the status quo.

 

[pistolpete11]

Everyone talks about the Shanahan tree. The 49ers had the 8th most rushing attempts and fewest passing attempts in the league. But Arthur Smith is a no-go because he ran the ball with Derrick Henry? Why? I'm open to the arguments against him, but basically everyone just points to him running the ball a lot and I'm not really buying that one.

McVay isn't far from the same. The Rams were 14th in pass attempts and 12th in rushing attempts. Very balanced.

 

[WickedWrister]

Everyone talks about the Shanahan tree. The 49ers had the 8th most rushing attempts and fewest passing attempts in the league. But Arthur Smith is a no-go because he ran the ball with Derrick Henry? Why? I'm open to the arguments against him, but basically everyone just points to him running the ball a lot and I'm not really buying that one.

McVay isn't far from the same. The Rams were 14th in pass attempts and 12th in rushing attempts. Very balanced.

His whole scheme is smashmouth power run concepts that he learned from guys like Mike Munchak, Ken Whisenhunt, Russ Grimm, and Mike Mularkey. Same old Steelers . I'm exaggerating (slightly), but the Mf'ers favorite play was a Jonnu Smith jet sweep. Weird misusage of the teams best offensive players in ATL.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Nobody actually thought this, though, right?.........RIGHT?!?!

I tried to tell myself it could maybe possibly work, but that was just me hitting the bargaining stage of Tomlin Purgatory.

 

[Peat]

But there is no way that this team is in a position to "build something more", so it makes more sense to build to their strengths than not.

They're not getting a new QB this off-season, and I'd bet that they're not going to get a new QB next off-season unless Pickett implodes. Do they need an upgrade at QB? Of course, but if you can't get an upgrade at QB, you can't just throw your arms up and say "shit, I can't do anything". You have to build for the best you can reasonably achieve.

What Tennessee did with Smith as OC is reasonably the best case scenario for the Steelers in the near term window: a top tier running team with an opportunistic and safe passing game. In his 2 years in Tennessee, they averaged 21 points/game in the playoffs (85 points in 4 games) and made the conference championship in 2019. Is that enough to win with? Probably not, but building anything more than that in the short term isn't in the cards.

The long and the short of it is I'd rather see the Steelers shoot high and risk flaming out then keep doing their best short term while never going anywhere long term.

But beyond that - how do we know the Steelers aren't in a position to build more? We've not really seen what Pickett can be in a good offence. DJ, Pickens, and Muth is a solid trio of primary pass catchers. Is he a SB winning QB? Probably not, but you don't know until you try. Were people saying Jalen Hurts is a guy to go to the SB with prior to that season with Steichen?

I'd love to see the Steelers get and encourage a guy who's really got a shot at unlocking potential like that. I have no idea whether Arthur Smith is definitely not that guy, but I'd be very worried that a hire of him would mean the Steelers aren't interested in finding out.

And that's the sort thing that just doesn't seem very interesting to me. I know they don't really care about what most interests me, but that's okay, I don't really care about whether they think they're on the path to a SB if it looks they're headed in a different direction.

Everyone talks about the Shanahan tree. The 49ers had the 8th most rushing attempts and fewest passing attempts in the league. But Arthur Smith is a no-go because he ran the ball with Derrick Henry? Why? I'm open to the arguments against him, but basically everyone just points to him running the ball a lot and I'm not really buying that one.

McVay isn't far from the same. The Rams were 14th in pass attempts and 12th in rushing attempts. Very balanced.

I'm not against a run heavy offence. Indeed, I think it's probably quite smart.

I'm against an offence that is run heavy because that's how it's going to win the game, vs an offence that's run heavy in balance with a high quality passing attack. Shanahan regularly ends up in the top 5 for yards per passing attempt. Is that Smith? Is that why the Steelers want him?

I know Smith did manage to get to the Titans to 7th in YpA as a high. But he also ended up with them about 20th the next season. If people want to tell me about how he got them to 7th and how he can do the same for the Steelers, I'm intrigued.

If people want to talk about him as a guy who does great with a run game without any other characteristics, I'm not interested.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The Steelers are screwed.

Art Rooney II: Mike Tomlin Will Make Decision On Steelers' Next OC

Pittsburgh Steelers president Art Rooney II told beat writers Monday that it will be coach Mike Tomlin’s call as to who is the team’s next offensive coordinator. The Steelers will make an outside hire for the position for the first time since time in more than 10 years after averaging just 17.9...

steelersdepot.com

 

[pistolpete11]

I'm not against a run heavy offence. Indeed, I think it's probably quite smart.

I'm against an offence that is run heavy because that's how it's going to win the game, vs an offence that's run heavy in balance with a high quality passing attack. Shanahan regularly ends up in the top 5 for yards per passing attempt. Is that Smith? Is that why the Steelers want him?

I know Smith did manage to get to the Titans to 7th in YpA as a high. But he also ended up with them about 20th the next season. If people want to tell me about how he got them to 7th and how he can do the same for the Steelers, I'm intrigued.

If people want to talk about him as a guy who does great with a run game without any other characteristics, I'm not interested.

I think you have your years wrong.

He was the OC for the Titans in 2019 and 2020. In terms on NY/A, they were 6th both years. In 2021, the year after he left for Atlanta, they dropped to 19th.

They were 2nd both years in Y/A in the running game, too.

Good for 4th in overall Y/P both years.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

The Steelers are screwed.

Art Rooney II: Mike Tomlin Will Make Decision On Steelers' Next OC

Pittsburgh Steelers president Art Rooney II told beat writers Monday that it will be coach Mike Tomlin’s call as to who is the team’s next offensive coordinator. The Steelers will make an outside hire for the position for the first time since time in more than 10 years after averaging just 17.9...

steelersdepot.com

They can’t even talk to the 49ers guys yet Art said they will talk to people at the senior bowl this is probably 2 more weeks before they higher anyone. The qbc is more important than the oc

 

[Peat]

I think you have your years wrong.

He was the OC for the Titans in 2019 and 2020. In terms on NY/A, they were 6th both years. In 2021, the year after he left for Atlanta, they dropped to 19th.

They were 2nd both years in Y/A in the running game, too.

Good for 4th in overall Y/P both years.

Oh my mistake, you're correct.

Which makes him more interesting.

 

[Wattsburgh]

They can’t even talk to the 49ers guys yet Art said they will talk to people at the senior bowl this is probably 2 more weeks before they higher anyone. The qbc is more important than the oc

The QVC channel is more important to Rooney than the Steelers are. Handing out extensions and big time decisions like picking your next Offense… this longevity shitt finally backfired. Time to fire yourself and your entire tree.

 

[JTG]

Hiring Arthur Smith is the perfect guy if you want to win every game 16-13 and finish 9-8. He's perfect.

Tomlin wants to play exactly this way.

 

[MrBrightside]

Tomlin wants to play exactly this way.

Absolutely. You can argue a chicken-or-the-egg thing, but I truly think the 2018 team that was actually quite good but pissed away a playoff spot when it had a bunch of turnovers against the Broncos, Raiders, and Saints made him decide he's never going to take chances again. There's no coach who goes for it less often or who does anything on offense that's not low risk - Smith will fit it well. Problem is that this team doesn't have a in-his-prime Derrick Henry and AJ Brown to carry the freight. It's also notable the way that Brown's production absolutely exploded when he left Tennessee.

 

[Josey Wales]

𝐑𝐞𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭: #Vikings QB Kirk Cousins is looking for $90 million guaranteed ($45M AAV) for 2 years to resign with the team, per
@charley_walters
.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

They can’t even talk to the 49ers guys yet Art said they will talk to people at the senior bowl this is probably 2 more weeks before they higher anyone. The qbc is more important than the oc

Kubiak has reportedly interviewed with the Saints and Patriots? Bears reportedly have requested an interview as well. Not sure why we can't talk yet to 49ers guys.

 

[xlm34]

Kubiak has reportedly interviewed with the Saints and Patriots? Bears reportedly have requested an interview as well. Not sure why we can't talk yet to 49ers guys.

I’m pretty sure you can only do virtual interviews with those guys before the championship games but as soon as their team makes a championship game, you have to wait until their season is over.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

But there is no way that this team is in a position to "build something more", so it makes more sense to build to their strengths than not.

This type of mentality has crippled this team for a decade.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This type of mentality has crippled this team for a decade.

No it hasn't? What are you talking about?

This issue is only recent due to Ben retiring, and now the debate is "build based on your good RBs or rebuild the offense with a new QB and new system". They never had that issue whatsoever before he retired, any sort of problems with the team were not "they weren't built appropriately".

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Kubiak has reportedly interviewed with the Saints and Patriots? Bears reportedly have requested an interview as well. Not sure why we can't talk yet to 49ers guys.

We could have skyped with multiple coaches we know they interviewed 3 face to face.
Kubiak is on team 3 with 1 year play calling experience