OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Doritos Bowl Match Up - Taylor Swift vs San Andreas Fault

[Peat]

Who cares? He played well at RT. I have no issues at all keeping him at RT if you can get a LT, nor do I have any issues moving him to LT.

Don't agree with this. He was a big time blocker, but there were big pass protection issues for him at RT.

After the week 17 Bengals game, his pass protection grade as a RT was 38.5, bottom 10 among tackles PFF were grading. He then got a 34.2 vs the Ravens (his 2nd lowest of the season) and then got a 25 (36.9 overall, one of the worst of the weekend) vs the Bills.

That's untenable long term for an OT. That needs to be a priority point of improvement.

Moving him back to his natural side seems to be a very obvious way of starting that process. In any case, he needs to kick on big.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don’t have a problem with him being a RT if that’s ultimately how he fits onto the roster.

LT’s are expensive, getting a good one via trade will be costly. If we’re plugging a mediocre one in there, I’d rather develop the in-house solution in Jones. We already invested high draft capital on him with the mindset he would be our LT for the next +10 years, let’s see it though.

I mean yeah, I don't disagree here. If it would cost an arm and a leg to get a good pass protector LT, just move Jones there and acquire a RT instead. I'm just saying there's no reason to say that Jones is only a LT or putting him on RT is giving up on him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Don't agree with this. He was a big time blocker, but there were big pass protection issues for him at RT.

After the week 17 Bengals game, his pass protection grade as a RT was 38.5, bottom 10 among tackles PFF were grading. He then got a 34.2 vs the Ravens (his 2nd lowest of the season) and then got a 25 (36.9 overall, one of the worst of the weekend) vs the Bills.

That's untenable long term for an OT. That needs to be a priority point of improvement.

Moving him back to his natural side seems to be a very obvious way of starting that process. In any case, he needs to kick on big.

Is this because he was playing RT or he just isn't a good pass protector yet? That was noted as an area of improvement even before he was drafted:

Even though Jones has good natural leverage at 6’4″, he still struggles to maintain his leverage through and across reps, particularly as a pass protector. Jones’ frame, although long and well-proportioned, is a bit high-cut. As a result, he frequently pops up too tall off the snap.

I think playing him on his off-side definitely impacted that, but would he be doing much better on LT with what I'd imagine is substantially tougher competition? Hard to say.

Regardless, my overall point is that if you can get a good pass protector, it's fine to keep Jones at RT. If you can only get more of a good blocker, move Jones to LT and hope his pass blocking can improve.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

PFF had him as the 3rd best rookie tackle based on his extremely strong run blocking grades. Yes, he played well at RT.

I’m talking about pass protection.

Watch the entire Colts game.

Watch the entire Bills game.

Focus on just BJ in pass protection.

When his athleticism is equaled and he has to rely on technique, he struggles.

He’s literally trying to do everything the opposite of what he’s used to.

He already has raw technique on his dominant hand side, now he’s being forced to switch sides and learn on his weak hand.

This is how you f*** up a promising player.

it’s exactly why Dotson struggled because they took him off his natural side, he went to the Rams and magically he’s really good again.

 

[T1K]

I mean yeah, I don't disagree here. If it would cost an arm and a leg to get a good pass protector LT, just move Jones there and acquire a RT instead. I'm just saying there's no reason to say that Jones is only a LT or putting him on RT is giving up on him.

We’re in agreement, just getting caught up in the small details.

I’m not gonna pretend to know the nuance of tackle, but I don’t think many guys are flip flopping between RT and LT. That’s the sign of a thin o-line when guys are asked to do that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I’m talking about pass protection.

Watch the entire Colts game.

Watch the entire Bills game.

Focus on just BJ in pass protection.

When his athleticism is equaled and he has to rely on technique, he struggles.

He’s literally trying to do everything the opposite of what he’s used to.

He already has raw technique on his dominant hand side, now he’s being forced to switch sides and learn on his weak hand.

This is how you f*** up a promising player.

it’s exactly why Dotson struggled because they took him off his natural side, he went to the Rams and magically he’s really good again.

Oh he sucked at pass blocking at RT, that's not even a debate. He was good overall at RT because he was a monster run blocker, but his pass blocking was absolutely not good. You are correct there.

However, the point I'm making here is that Jones being a monster run blocker makes him a viable RT long term, even if he needs to adjust and improve his pass blocking at RT. They just need a good pass blocking LT if they want to do that. If they can't get a good pass blocker for LT, they have to play Jones at LT. But if they somehow can get a strong pass blocking LT, I have no concerns keeping Jones at RT and being patient as he figures out the position.

You can argue they should just plan on him moving to LT and go look for an agile run blocking RT, because it's likely way easier to find a good agile run blocking RT than a good power pass blocking LT. I just think Jones can be both of those things, and they shouldn't feel that getting a RT is their only option.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Oh he sucked at pass blocking at RT, that's not even a debate. He was good overall at RT because he was a monster run blocker, but his pass blocking was absolutely not good. You are correct there.

However, the point I'm making here is that Jones being a monster run blocker makes him a viable RT long term, even if he needs to adjust and improve his pass blocking at RT. They just need a good pass blocking LT if they want to do that. If they can't get a good pass blocker for LT, they have to play Jones at LT. But if they somehow can get a strong pass blocking LT, I have no concerns keeping Jones at RT and being patient as he figures out the position.

I can’t imagine anyone but a project LT slips to 20.

They moved up to take one of the most promising LTs last year with Jones, so play him there.

Rams are making Tomlin and the org look like fools because they stole Dotson, put him back at his natural position, and now have one of the best guards in the league.

You would think Tomlin would look at what happened and realize he’s making the same mistake with Jones, but it’s Tomlin so…

 

[Peat]

Is this because he was playing RT or he just isn't a good pass protector yet? That was noted as an area of improvement even before he was drafted:



I think playing him on his off-side definitely impacted that, but would he be doing much better on LT with what I'd imagine is substantially tougher competition? Hard to say.

Regardless, my overall point is that if you can get a good pass protector, it's fine to keep Jones at RT. If you can only get more of a good blocker, move Jones to LT and hope his pass blocking can improve.

It's probably both.

But I certainly don't think he was good enough at RT to say "all's good, keep on trucking". I know he had a high grade for a rookie but that makes him average overall and without knowing how they weight rushing vs passing in the grade, I feel unforgiving to a guy handing out bottom 10 pass protection grades. Nobody's that good a run blocker.

And the path to improvement is almost certainly smoother in his natural position.

I'm not saying he absolutely has to go back to LT but I wouldn't be happy to see him continue at RT at all. It would take one hell of a player for me to okay it. I felt different earlier when he seems to be just fine there but not now. It seems a very unnecessary risk to take with the development of a potential lynchpin.

 

[T1K]

It's probably both.

But I certainly don't think he was good enough at RT to say "all's good, keep on trucking". I know he had a high grade for a rookie but that makes him average overall and without knowing how they weight rushing vs passing in the grade, I feel unforgiving to a guy handing out bottom 10 pass protection grades. Nobody's that good a run blocker.

And the path to improvement is almost certainly smoother in his natural position.

I'm not saying he absolutely has to go back to LT but I wouldn't be happy to see him continue at RT at all. It would take one hell of a player for me to okay it. I felt different earlier when he seems to be just fine there but not now. It seems a very unnecessary risk to take with the development of a potential lynchpin.

Pending his development this year, I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up moving to guard.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I mean it has to be kind of hilarious that the bloke that was just interviewed is one that has close ties to Mason Rudolph.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I can’t imagine anyone but a project LT slips to 20.

They moved up to take one of the most promising LTs last year with Jones, so play him there.

Rams are making Tomlin and the org look like fools because they stole Dotson, put him back at his natural position, and now have one of the best guards in the league.

You would think Tomlin would look at what happened and realize he’s making the same mistake with Jones, but it’s Tomlin so…

If you by pff sure but Dotson still struggles in pass blocking the only can run using duo becomes he has the be told who to block. We will see what his contract looks like

 

[Peat]

Pending his development this year, I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up moving to guard.

That'd be a signal failure of line coaching so let's hope not.

 

[JTG]

I am completely fine with adding a legit LT and keeping Jones at RT.

He's clearly more comfortable on the left, but I think he could be a ridiculous x-factor on the right. Only two guys keeping him on the right side this year and both should be gone by pick 10.

I’d hate to give up on developing the guy we just invested a 1st rd pick on a year ago, but he’s gonna get a QB killed if he doesn’t improve his pass pro significantly. It’s a tough call, they probably already know if he “has it” or not.

He needed to work on his pass protection, but he's also more comfortable at LT. He said getting adjusted to RT took a bit even though he did it before at Georgia. I think he's a tone setter on the offense.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

If you by pff sure but Dotson still struggles in pass blocking the only can run using duo becomes he has the be told who to block. We will see what his contract looks like

If by, you watch him and see he’s a completely different player being at his natural position then ya, he’s now one of the best guards in the league.

If you prefer PFF he’s ranked 2nd overall and 19th in pass protection of out 64 guards.

Translation, Tomlin f***ed up his development by not playing him on his natural side.

Now he’s mind numbingly doing the same shit with Jones.

 

[MrBrightside]

Taking a natural LT who you traded up to get in the first round and moving him to RT so you could keep playing Dan Moore at LT is genuinely the dumbest shit that this coaching staff did last season and that's not a low bar.

 

[pistolpete11]

I think Jones played well enough at RT that you try to find the best available T period. RT are easier and cheaper to find, so that seems most likely anyway, but if there's another good LT, I'm not turning my nose up at that.

The important point is to not have Moore starting.

 

[xlm34]

I think someone said once that flipping sides on the offensive line is like trying to wipe your ass with the other hand. So I’d like to see Jones play at his natural position, although he definitely would have still struggled in pass protection this year. That’s just life for most young tackles and he was incredibly raw.

Definitely not going to freak out if they keep him at RT and find another LT though. In an NFL where guys like the Bosas, Watt, Crosby, and Hutchinson are rushing against the RT, you still need a legit guy on the right.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

If by, you watch him and see he’s a completely different player being at his natural position then ya, he’s now one of the best guards in the league.

If you prefer PFF he’s ranked 2nd overall and 19th in pass protection of out 64 guards.

Translation, Tomlin f***ed up his development by not playing him on his natural side.

Now he’s mind numbingly doing the same shit with Jones.

He wasn’t going to play over daniels on the right side we will see what type of contract he gets. It also helps that Stafford doesn’t hold the ball and gets through the progresssions faster

 

[MrBrightside]

It's not that Jones can't ultimately play RT - I'm assume he can - but it's the minimization of your resources that this displays that is emblematic of the issues with this coaching staff. It's one thing to move a guy you've made a heavy investment in to a new position if the old position is manned by a good player - it's an entirely different thing to do it so you can keep probably the worst LT in football in the lineup.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I think Jones played well enough at RT that you try to find the best available T period. RT are easier and cheaper to find, so that seems most likely anyway, but if there's another good LT, I'm not turning my nose up at that.

The important point is to not have Moore starting.

Moore is an average LT Jones can be elite

 

[MrBrightside]

Moore is an average LT Jones can be elite

In no world is Moore an average LT. Come on man.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Steelers Position Reviews: The offensive line

2023 unit got better as season wore on

www.steelers.com

 

[Josey Wales]

In no world is Moore an average LT. Come on man.

He is a HC Cliché lover ! Nothing is his fault

 

[bigdaddyk88]

In no world is Moore an average LT. Come on man.

Guys who played in the league and know how bad the o like play is say he is average to above average especially when he faces elite pass rusher’s every week. Most of the sacks are on the Qb. Most people don’t care about pressure given up because guys like parsons lead league in pressures and went weeks without getting a sack

He is a HC Cliché lover ! Nothing is his fault

No I fully expect them to trade moore since he can’t play RT and let someone else pay him and move Jones to LT

 

[Josey Wales]

Guys who played in the league and know how bad the o like play is say he is average to above average especially when he faces elite pass rusher’s every week. Most of the sacks are on the Qb. Most people don’t care about pressure given up because guys like parsons lead league in pressures and went weeks without getting a sack


No I fully expect them to trade moore since he can’t play RT and let someone else pay him and move Jones to LT

Said Nothing about Moore, Mentioned you Love HC Cliché