OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Congrats to KC, but Kelce was the real winner winning Swift

[Empoleon8771]

The Browns just traded a 5th and 6th for Jerry Jeudy. This makes me feel very bad about what a potential Diontae Johnson trade would look like.

Isn't Jeudy kinda bad, though?

I think this suggests Johnson would be more likely to go for a 3rd than a 2nd, but I feel like Jeudy's more of like a borderline WR2/WR3.

 

[WickedWrister]

Isn't Jeudy kinda bad, though?

I think this suggests Johnson would be more likely to go for a 3rd than a 2nd, but I feel like Jeudy's more of like a borderline WR2/WR3.

Nah I think this is just the market for impending FA's. Jeudy on his 5th year option making like 13m. An article I linked to a couple of days ago mentioned the Amari Cooper and Brandin Cooks trades as comps for what we might get in a DJ return, and this Jeudy deal kind of reinforces that.

 

[WickedWrister]

I think signing Wilson could be toxic.

Seems like the type that thinks so highly of himself that he wouldn't be a helpful backup to Pickett, maybe even detrimental. Sabotage might be too strong of a word, but...

If he ends up the starter, I don't think he's good enough anymore to make enough of a difference and even if he is, how many more years does he have left? I'm not the biggest fan of Fields either, but at least if you hit with him he would be around for a while.

Meh, it's not a starting QB's job to help the backup learn, or vice versa. That's the QB coaches responsibility in my opinion. It made headlines when Big Ben said this about a rookie Rudolph but I didn't really care back then either.

If you wanna talk about sabotage, some of the shit that Sean Payton tried to pull last year was wild.

“We beat the Chiefs. They came up to me during the bye week and began the bye week—Monday or Tuesday—and they told me that if I didn’t change my contract, my injury guarantee, that I’d be benched for the rest of the year," Wilson told reporters last week. "And, I don’t know, I think we had nine games left or so. I was definitely disappointed about it. It was a process through the whole week, the whole bye week. We just came off beating the Chiefs. Played a pretty good game against the Chiefs. We just came off of that, so I was excited, obviously, for us to fight for the playoffs and get on a hot streak. And the NFLPA and NFL got involved or whatever, I think, at some point."

Obviously none of us know the guy personally, but we can get a glimpse into how he acts by some interviews with his old teammates. I'm sure he probably has an ego. Doesn't seem like he forms deep personal relationships with some of his teammates. Like, is it a little weird that he was teammates with Marshawn Lynch for 7 years and they don't have eachothers phone numbers? Yeah I guess. But I don't know if being friends with your coworkers is a requirement for winning a Super Bowl. Wasn't for him in 2014 at least. I don't know what to make of that story about him wanting a "personal office". Doesn't sound like we'll have room for that at UMPC .

Like Kenny is by all accounts a fantastic leader in the locker room and look where it got us last year. I don't know, maybe DJ and Pickens need a bigger ego to keep them in line haha. Worked with Ben and AB.

By the way, if Russ actually does sign here, Ocho Cinco is the real insider. He was calling this shit weeks ago.

 

[Peat]

Pretty sure Pickett has a little office for studying film in. Pretty sure there's stories about Minkah Fitzpatrick liking to swing by and visiting him.

The thing about Wilson being disliked and weird - which isn't universal, his Denver WRs have been loud for him - is probably real. How big an issue? I mean, who knows. It's definitely an obstacle though if people actually dislike guys. Don't have to be besties but things fall apart quicker when people get on each others' nerves. It's fine when you're winning but the moment it isn't, it goes sideways. And you generally try to remove obstacles, not add more.

The real bar is Wilson's almost definitely not good enough to win a Super Bowl with at this point. And as far as I'm concerned, there's only two reasons to ever run with a QB1 who is neither good enough to win a Super Bowl nor potentially good enough to win one with in the future and those are

a) You suck and you just need to get some quality in to stem the bleeding (but of course most teams that suck that bad are getting high draft picks very soon)

b) You're close but don't have a QB and you want to get a guy who'll win and impart good habits in while you sort out QB.

And you can make a case for Wilson for B, but that's where the personality thing comes into play. You don't want a guy who sets bad examples, you don't want a guy that alienates people, you don't want a guy that thinks helping team mates isn't part of his job. I have no idea whether the personality buzz around Wilson equals someone who can't be that guy, but I at least think about it.

 

[pistolpete11]

Meh, it's not a starting QB's job to help the backup learn, or vice versa. That's the QB coaches responsibility in my opinion. It made headlines when Big Ben said this about a rookie Rudolph but I didn't really care back then either.

You're conflating the 2 points.

If he's the starter, I don't care about his shitty attitude as much. I care more about how good is he at 36 years old and if the Steelers are really in a spot where he's the difference in actually competing.

If he's the backup, yeah, I think having a bad attitude backup is a problem for anyone, but especially a young(ish) QB who's still trying to find his way.

Either way, I don't think it's a great situation.

 

[WickedWrister]

Pretty sure Pickett has a little office for studying film in. Pretty sure there's stories about Minkah Fitzpatrick liking to swing by and visiting him.

The thing about Wilson being disliked and weird - which isn't universal, his Denver WRs have been loud for him - is probably real. How big an issue? I mean, who knows. It's definitely an obstacle though if people actually dislike guys. Don't have to be besties but things fall apart quicker when people get on each others' nerves. It's fine when you're winning but the moment it isn't, it goes sideways. And you generally try to remove obstacles, not add more.

The real bar is Wilson's almost definitely not good enough to win a Super Bowl with at this point. And as far as I'm concerned, there's only two reasons to ever run with a QB1 who is neither good enough to win a Super Bowl nor potentially good enough to win one with in the future and those are

a) You suck and you just need to get some quality in to stem the bleeding (but of course most teams that suck that bad are getting high draft picks very soon)

b) You're close but don't have a QB and you want to get a guy who'll win and impart good habits in while you sort out QB.

And you can make a case for Wilson for B, but that's where the personality thing comes into play. You don't want a guy who sets bad examples, you don't want a guy that alienates people, you don't want a guy that thinks helping team mates isn't part of his job. I have no idea whether the personality buzz around Wilson equals someone who can't be that guy, but I at least think about it.

Yeah I was just joking about our facilities being poor, I've heard it's like a broom closet or something .

I think we both agree the short term future for the Steelers in the AFC looks pretty bleak due in large part to our talent at QB relative to the rest of the league. Outright tanking doesn't really happen that much in the NFL, and I don't think our roster is bad enough anyway to think about that, so we're going to try and win as many games as possible next year. So where I'm basically at is:

1. Is he better than Pickett? Yes.

2. Does getting him require giving up any assets? No, he's being released on the 13th.

3. How much money do we have to give him? TBD. My interest scales with how much he's being paid. League min? If you take an optimistic view and he gives you his 2023 production for $1.25m, that could be a pretty tremendous value on par with the best rookie QB contracts. If he wants $10-15m, that's still probably surplus value but not as appealing. I would circle back on Rudolph at that point. Anything more than that and you're starting to get into negative territory.

4. Is he a personality and scheme fit? TBD - that's what the visit was for I guess.

You're conflating the 2 points.

If he's the starter, I don't care about his shitty attitude as much. I care more about how good is he at 36 years old and if the Steelers are really in a spot where he's the difference in actually competing.

If he's the backup, yeah, I think having a bad attitude backup is a problem for anyone, but especially a young(ish) QB who's still trying to find his way.

Either way, I don't think it's a great situation.

I guess I just don't know what you're suggesting he's going to do if he's hypothetically benched.

He was Stidham's backup last year Week 17 and 18 after they were mathematically eliminated. Would be smart to try and talk to someone in the Broncos organization about how he handled himself during that.

In general I'm just glad this front office seems to be pretty clear headed and has acknowledged their weakspots via all the moves since the season ended. And at least they're doing their due diligence at QB.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Any predictions on moves with all this cap space?

 

[WickedWrister]

Any predictions on moves with all this cap space?

Everyone seems to think the Steelers would like Jerome Baker, LB from the Dolphins.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Everyone seems to think the Steelers would like Jerome Baker, LB from the Dolphins.

Isn’t Baker an OLB? I think they absolutely need to add another ILB but I thought Baker was an OLB.

 

[WickedWrister]

Isn’t Baker an OLB? I think they absolutely need to add another ILB but I thought Baker was an OLB.

I think he's played both. Drafted as a 4-3 weakside lb

 

[Peat]

Yeah I was just joking about our facilities being poor, I've heard it's like a broom closet or something .

I think we both agree the short term future for the Steelers in the AFC looks pretty bleak due in large part to our talent at QB relative to the rest of the league. Outright tanking doesn't really happen that much in the NFL, and I don't think our roster is bad enough anyway to think about that, so we're going to try and win as many games as possible next year. So where I'm basically at is:

1. Is he better than Pickett? Yes.

2. Does getting him require giving up any assets? No, he's being released on the 13th.

3. How much money do we have to give him? TBD. My interest scales with how much he's being paid. League min? If you take an optimistic view and he gives you his 2023 production for $1.25m, that could be a pretty tremendous value on par with the best rookie QB contracts. If he wants $10-15m, that's still probably surplus value but not as appealing. I would circle back on Rudolph at that point. Anything more than that and you're starting to get into negative territory.

4. Is he a personality and scheme fit? TBD - that's what the visit was for I guess.

You're right about what they're going to do.

It's not what I want. Not the way the NFL is structured.

I don't want an outright tank. I don't think it's a particularly smart idea in the NFL. But I want a certain fearlessness about it possibly happening. I want to see the team emphasize ceiling in their QB and FA search. No risk-it no biscuit. Even if the ceiling has a 1% chance of happening.

And ultimately, the thing I hate most about this isn't Wilson. It's the sign that the team remain very old fashioned about what success in this league looks like and how you build it. If this was the last season in the NFL I'd feel different - although I don't think I'd expect his production to come here and there's stats suggesting Wilson actually that wasn't much better than Pickett and Fields given circumstances - but it's not.

And I wish this team would stop acting like it is.

 

[WickedWrister]

You're right about what they're going to do.

It's not what I want. Not the way the NFL is structured.

I don't want an outright tank. I don't think it's a particularly smart idea in the NFL. But I want a certain fearlessness about it possibly happening. I want to see the team emphasize ceiling in their QB and FA search. No risk-it no biscuit. Even if the ceiling has a 1% chance of happening.

And ultimately, the thing I hate most about this isn't Wilson. It's the sign that the team remain very old fashioned about what success in this league looks like and how you build it. If this was the last season in the NFL I'd feel different - although I don't think I'd expect his production to come here and there's stats suggesting Wilson actually that wasn't much better than Pickett and Fields given circumstances - but it's not.

And I wish this team would stop acting like it is.

Yeah I mean this is why I was so enamored with the idea of Fields. Probably not a starter but if his extreme right tail range of outcome happens, you've got something special to work with.

Russ is my #3 option and I described it as a "shitty happy medium". Still preferable to the Brissett's and Minshews of the world I guess.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Isn’t Baker an OLB? I think they absolutely need to add another ILB but I thought Baker was an OLB.

Baker would be an ILB in the Steelers scheme. He would be the guy that would cover the tight ends, etc. He is supposedly good at coverage but not great at stopping the run.

 

[Peat]

Yeah I mean this is why I was so enamored with the idea of Fields. Probably not a starter but if his extreme right tail range of outcome happens, you've got something special to work with.

Russ is my #3 option and I described it as a "shitty happy medium". Still preferable to the Brissett's and Minshews of the world I guess.

I mean we disagree on what constitutes ceiling and ergo how attractive Fields is, but I at least get the appeal if you believe in him, yeah.

Honestly I'd kind of rather have Minshew. I feel like Wilson could end up sticking around far too long without doing anything. Someone like Minshew comes with a ticking clock. Feels weird to put it this way, but that's where I'm at.

 

[WickedWrister]

I mean we disagree on what constitutes ceiling and ergo how attractive Fields is, but I at least get the appeal if you believe in him, yeah.

Honestly I'd kind of rather have Minshew. I feel like Wilson could end up sticking around far too long without doing anything. Someone like Minshew comes with a ticking clock. Feels weird to put it this way, but that's where I'm at.

I would hope that if we offer Russ a contract its only a 1-2 year deal and that 2nd year would include a team option. Or some palatable amount of dead cap in year 2. And if the results look bad early, you go to Pickett, or vice versa. Show him the same amount of respect you showed Trubisky, which was like ~3.5 games. That's why I think the $ amount is actually really important and will indicate our level of belief in him (if at all).

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Any predictions on moves with all this cap space?

Mickenzee safety giants 10 million aav
Kinlaw 5 million dt depth
Bunting chidi henderson okuda white on at cb 8 million aav
Devin white if spot track 10 million aav projection is right or a handful of solid Milb at tge 6-8 million range

Any predictions on moves with all this cap space?

 

[MrBrightside]

 

[JTG]

Yeah, if that is what Jeudy returned, I'd just keep Johnson and get a comp pick.

 

[MrBrightside]

Yeah, if that is what Jeudy returned, I'd just keep Johnson and get a comp pick.

Yep. Especially since you’d only free up $10M in space. You’re not going to do better than him for that amount and the compensation is the same or better if he walks after the year.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Yeah, if that is what Jeudy returned, I'd just keep Johnson and get a comp pick.

They aren’t even close as wr though. Dj has a pro bowl and 1000 yard receiving season under his belt 14 more tds and is a much better route runner

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yeah, if that is what Jeudy returned, I'd just keep Johnson and get a comp pick.

They would only get a comp pick for him if they aren't very active in FA next off season, and DJ is deemed a very valuable player, signs a big deal, etc.

Ie if they sign a decent FA next off season, depending on the oddball NFL comp formal, losing DJ and signing an equivalent in value player, would cancel out the comp pick.

I doubt Dj pulls a third round comp pick.

There were only four 3rd rounders given out this year, and two of those (Rams/(9ers) received them for losing coaches.

The Eagles got another one of those thirds, but they lost a slew of FAs.

Jags got the other third, from losing Taylor, and signing only a few second and third wave FAs.

Steelers would likely get a 4-5th rounder for DJ if they were semi-active in FA next season.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Yeah I was just joking about our facilities being poor, I've heard it's like a broom closet or something .

I think we both agree the short term future for the Steelers in the AFC looks pretty bleak due in large part to our talent at QB relative to the rest of the league. Outright tanking doesn't really happen that much in the NFL, and I don't think our roster is bad enough anyway to think about that, so we're going to try and win as many games as possible next year. So where I'm basically at is:

1. Is he better than Pickett? Yes.

2. Does getting him require giving up any assets? No, he's being released on the 13th.

3. How much money do we have to give him? TBD. My interest scales with how much he's being paid. League min? If you take an optimistic view and he gives you his 2023 production for $1.25m, that could be a pretty tremendous value on par with the best rookie QB contracts. If he wants $10-15m, that's still probably surplus value but not as appealing. I would circle back on Rudolph at that point. Anything more than that and you're starting to get into negative territory.

4. Is he a personality and scheme fit? TBD - that's what the visit was for I guess.



I guess I just don't know what you're suggesting he's going to do if he's hypothetically benched.

He was Stidham's backup last year Week 17 and 18 after they were mathematically eliminated. Would be smart to try and talk to someone in the Broncos organization about how he handled himself during that.

In general I'm just glad this front office seems to be pretty clear headed and has acknowledged their weakspots via all the moves since the season ended. And at least they're doing their due diligence at QB.

I feel it's pretty telling that the Broncos would rather absorb an $80 M cap penalty than keep him on the team another year. Signing guys that other teams don't want usually isn't how you build a good team- see quite a few of the Steelers pickups last year.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I feel it's pretty telling that the Broncos would rather absorb an $80 M cap penalty than keep him on the team another year. Signing guys that other teams don't want usually isn't how you build a good team- see quite a few of the Steelers pickups last year.

I mean if they kept him then his guaranteed money in 25 would kick in and it would cost them more.
He isn’t a Peyton type of Qb Nix or JJ will be in Denver after the draft

 

[JTG]

They aren’t even close as wr though. Dj has a pro bowl and 1000 yard receiving season under his belt 14 more tds and is a much better route runner

Even then. I can't see them getting a 2nd for him, and that's what it'd be worth to trade him, IMO.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Even then. I can't see them getting a 2nd for him, and that's what it'd be worth to trade him, IMO.

Yeah i don’t see a 2nd without a bidding war some reports Arizona is interested but probably don’t want burned like they were in the Hollywood brown trade