OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Congrats to KC, but Kelce was the real winner winning Swift

[JTG]

That is really embarrassing. AR2 has in no way, shape, or form made this organization better by him being a part of it.

I was having a cigar in Southside and I was sitting with a guy who worked for the Steelers for some time and is friends with the Rooney's from growing up on the Northside. He did confirm that Dan Martin Rooney is, in fact, going to be taking over. He didn't say when, but he did say "soon."

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Bad grades: Chiefs ranked 31st in NFLPA survey

The Dolphins and Vikings topped the NFLPA's player survey of various categories for NFL teams, while the Chiefs and the Commanders were at the bottom.

www.espn.com

 

[WickedWrister]

That is really embarrassing. AR2 has in no way, shape, or form made this organization better by him being a part of it.

I was having a cigar in Southside and I was sitting with a guy who worked for the Steelers for some time and is friends with the Rooney's from growing up on the Northside. He did confirm that Dan Martin Rooney is, in fact, going to be taking over. He didn't say when, but he did say "soon."

Cincy doesn't even offer 3 square meals a day lol

 

[JTG]

Cincy doesn't even offer 3 square meals a day lol

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Do we really care who is worse?

This team has gone from being the leaders of the pack to being posers. They believe they are a first class organization. They believe they do things the correct way. Fact is, they have never evolved.

Saying this, some of this stuff is whiny. "I don't get 3 square meals a day from the team." LOLwut? You make millions of dollars a year...go make yourself a sandwich at home.

 

[xlm34]

That is really embarrassing. AR2 has in no way, shape, or form made this organization better by him being a part of it.

I was having a cigar in Southside and I was sitting with a guy who worked for the Steelers for some time and is friends with the Rooney's from growing up on the Northside. He did confirm that Dan Martin Rooney is, in fact, going to be taking over. He didn't say when, but he did say "soon."

I don’t think it could come soon enough. Dan Martin Rooney looks like he’s held a bunch of different positions around the game so he could actually bring some fresh ideas to the organization.

Art just seems like a lawyer that’s trying to follow the script of his predecessors but isn’t good at it.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Stats are just production. If you don't care about that, its like saying you don't care about someones job performance.

I agree there are other important factors besides just passing yards and td's, but any way you slice it I just don't think it's been good enough. Our offense is scoring 16.9 PPG with Kenny Pickett at QB. That would be bottom 5 this year and worst in the league last year. So no, I don't think he's contributing to the team winning games that much.

We can't answer the playoff part because he got benched for Mason Rudolph.

What kind of regular season production makes a QB clutch in the playoffs?

Roth and Eli won b2b SBs and only combined for 40 TDs and 6600+ yard between the two of them.

But they made a shit load of clutch plays to get their rings during their respective runs.

Same with Flacco, who only tossed 22 TD the year he won SB MVP.

I don’t get why anyone is using some arbitrary TD stat like 25.

If he throws 30 TDs and flames out in the playoffs, where is that getting them?

If he puts up 18-19 TDs but balls out all season and makes clutch plays come playoff time and ends Tomlin’s historical drought, you think they should move on because he didn’t win some fantasy league?

 

[Peat]

Do we really care who is worse?

This team has gone from being the leaders of the pack to being posers. They believe they are a first class organization. They believe they do things the correct way. Fact is, they have never evolved.

Saying this, some of this stuff is whiny. "I don't get 3 square meals a day from the team." LOLwut? You make millions of dollars a year...go make yourself a sandwich at home.

I mean on the one hand, a lot of this is super prima-donna'ish. It's ranking how spoilt they are. I imagine most of us would cream out pants if we got use the Steelers gym. I'm guessing their lockers are better than anything we've used.

I'd point out that one of those Fs was a 5.8/10. I dunno how they were told to score but that still kinda sounds average.

But on the other hand... you want someone to absolutely bust their ass for you, you make their life easier right? The Bengals make billions a year, they can't provide that little bit of extra help? I'd be peeved. Particularly on food. I bet they're on the players about what they eat a bunch, but they don't want to make it easy by providing the food? That'd annoy me.

 

[WickedWrister]

Do we really care who is worse?

This team has gone from being the leaders of the pack to being posers. They believe they are a first class organization. They believe they do things the correct way. Fact is, they have never evolved.

Saying this, some of this stuff is whiny. "I don't get 3 square meals a day from the team." LOLwut? You make millions of dollars a year...go make yourself a sandwich at home.

I mean I'm not an employee of the Steelers so I don't really care. I care to the extent that having poor facilities would hurt our ability to attract or keep marquee talent. Which is to say probably not much. Didn't our team plane break down multiple times last year

I just think its interesting to see what the players think of their workplace.

Disagree on the food stuff though. It's different for average Joes like us, but for professional athletes food and nutrition is everything and its in the best interest of the team to ensure that its top quality.

 

[Peat]

I mean I'm not an employee of the Steelers so I don't really care. I care to the extent that having poor facilities would hurt our ability to attract or keep marquee talent. Which is to say probably not much. Didn't our team plane break down multiple times last year

I just think its interesting to see what the players think of their workplace.

Disagree on the food stuff though. It's different for average Joes like us, but for professional athletes food and nutrition is everything and its in the best interest of the team to ensure that its top quality.

Yeah, Steelers seem to do fine in terms of the money they offer. Which makes sense to me. If I was an NFLer, the three things I'm looking at are money, people, location. Facilities come fourth and pretty distant at that unless it was some Arizona situation.

That said, I'd make an exception for food. I'd 100% sign for another team ahead of the Bengals on the strength of that. Or even just if one cafe was better.

 

[WickedWrister]

What kind of regular season production makes a QB clutch in the playoffs?

Roth and Eli won b2b SBs and only combined for 40 TDs and 6600+ yard between the two of them.

But they made a shit load of clutch plays to get their rings during their respective runs.

Same with Flacco, who only tossed 22 TD the year he won SB MVP.

I don’t get why anyone is using some arbitrary TD stat like 25.

If he throws 30 TDs and flames out in the playoffs, where is that getting them?

If he puts up 18-19 TDs but balls out all season and makes clutch plays come playoff time and ends Tomlin’s historical drought, you think they should move on because he didn’t win some fantasy league?

Literally any of these numbers you're throwing out there would represent a massive increase on how he's played so far. It's not hyperbole to say he is the worst QB at throwing TD's in NFL history.

It's funny you bring up Joe Flacco who threw more than twice as many TD's (13) as Kenny Pickett this year (6).... in 5 games.

Also I'm not sure it's possible to throw sub 20 td's and be considered to "ball out all season".

If he throws for 30? Hell yeah, that's a top 5 mark in the league and probably one of the most efficient seasons of all time given how much we figure to run. That's like 2020 Tannehill.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Literally any of these numbers you're throwing out there would represent a massive increase on how he's played so far. It's not hyperbole to say he is the worst QB at throwing TD's in NFL history.

It's funny you bring up Joe Flacco who threw more than twice as many TD's (13) as Kenny Pickett this year (6).... in 5 games.

Also I'm not sure it's possible to throw sub 20 td's and be considered to "ball out all season".

If he throws for 30? Hell yeah, that's a top 5 mark in the league and probably one of the most efficient seasons of all time given how much we figure to run. That's like 2020 Tannehill.

Stroud only had 23 TDs, you don’t think he balled out this past season?

We can definitely agree he needs to dramatically increase his production, that’s not really up for debate.

But not throwing 25 TDs or whatever doesn’t mean shit really.

He can put up really productive stats and still shit the bed in the playoffs.

That makes him Kirk Cousins, the player version of Tomlin.

I’ll take the guy without the big fancy stats that is clutch come playoff time over the Kirk Cousins of the NFL.

I want nothing to do with a Cousins type QB and would rather they move on if that’s who KP becomes.

 

[WickedWrister]

Stroud only had 23 TDs, you don’t think he balled out this past season?

We can definitely agree he needs to dramatically increase his production, that’s not really up for debate.

But not throwing 25 TDs or whatever doesn’t mean shit really.

He can put up really productive stats and still shit the bed in the playoffs.

That makes him Kirk Cousins, the player version of Tomlin.

I’ll take the guy without the big fancy stats that is clutch come playoff time over the Kirk Cousins of the NFL.

I want nothing to do with a Cousins type QB and would rather they move on if that’s who KP becomes.

Yeah, a 23/5 TD INT ratio and 4100 yards as a 22 year old rookie is balling out.

25 TD's is just an arbitrary number, but it does indicate ~1.5 passing TD's per game which most "good" QB's put up over a full season.

I think hoping Kenny can even turn into a Cousins-type isn't realistic at this point.

 

[Peat]

Right now my passing grade for Pickett would be look like a top 15 QB by at least some important metrics (i.e. I'm fine with him not being top 15 in TDs if the team doesn't throw much but he is top 15 in TD% on passes and high on Y/A) with continued strong situational football and ball security, and looking like he has room to keep growing. That expectation might be wriggled a little either way depending on the state of the Steelers, but it's going to be very for him to make a case for being a continued starter if he can't do that.

I agree with Jiggy on putting a lot of emphasis on situational football i.e. being clutch, not doing stupid stuff and maybe not so much on regular season numbers (the extreme example is Mahomes kinda looking like a top 10 QB this season only to go off post-season per normal) but at the same time, it's pretty hard not to be good in situational football and not put up normal looking QB stats, and it's pretty hard for teams to get to those important situations without a QB putting up normal looking stats.

It's time for that to happen.

Incidentally, the fact that Pickett is one of those rare freaks - possibly almost unique - who is somehow good at situational football while putting up awful QB stats is part of what makes me believe there might be a lot more there. It's very weird and most weirdnesses normalise. He looks like a totally different guy in those situations; there's a chance it normalises by him being that guy a lot more often. That's still probably not good enough on a non-rookie QB salary so I'd like to move on, but I will be very curious about how it goes since we probably won't.

I would start to actually get happy if he started looking like a top 10 QB. That would also by my expectation for the year after if he earned another year's grace.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

We can definitely agree he needs to dramatically increase his production, that’s not really up for debate.

But not throwing 25 TDs or whatever doesn’t mean shit really.

He can put up really productive stats and still shit the bed in the playoffs.

That makes him Kirk Cousins, the player version of Tomlin.

I’ll take the guy without the big fancy stats that is clutch come playoff time over the Kirk Cousins of the NFL.

I want nothing to do with a Cousins type QB and would rather they move on if that’s who KP becomes.

Kirk playoff numbers are pretty good

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yeah, a 23/5 TD INT ratio and 4100 yards as a 22 year old rookie is balling out.

25 TD's is just an arbitrary number, but it does indicate ~1.5 passing TD's per game which most "good" QB's put up over a full season.

I think hoping Kenny can even turn into a Cousins-type isn't realistic at this point.

And I stand by my point that if he is heading down the path of being worse than or the ceiling of a Cousins, then I would be pretty pissed if they don't move on and try to find the next guy.

They need a guy that can perform in the playoffs, because Tomlin has no trouble winning in the regular season (did you know he never had a losing season?).

A reincarnation of Cousins just means more of the same old shit.

Kirk playoff numbers are pretty good

This just solidifies my point about stats.

Have you ever watched him in the playoffs?

He's 1-4 because he never makes plays when he has to in the postseason.

He's anti-clutch.

 

[MrBrightside]

People who rail against mediocrity at the coaching level and champion it at the QB position will never not baffle me.

 

[MrBrightside]

Kind of hope it happens so we can move on from the discussion.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

People who spend all their time being irrationally angry at a QB for not developing like they hoped will never not baffle me.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Right now my passing grade for Pickett would be look like a top 15 QB by at least some important metrics (i.e. I'm fine with him not being top 15 in TDs if the team doesn't throw much but he is top 15 in TD% on passes and high on Y/A) with continued strong situational football and ball security, and looking like he has room to keep growing. That expectation might be wriggled a little either way depending on the state of the Steelers, but it's going to be very for him to make a case for being a continued starter if he can't do that.

I agree with Jiggy on putting a lot of emphasis on situational football i.e. being clutch, not doing stupid stuff and maybe not so much on regular season numbers (the extreme example is Mahomes kinda looking like a top 10 QB this season only to go off post-season per normal) but at the same time, it's pretty hard not to be good in situational football and not put up normal looking QB stats, and it's pretty hard for teams to get to those important situations without a QB putting up normal looking stats.

It's time for that to happen.

Incidentally, the fact that Pickett is one of those rare freaks - possibly almost unique - who is somehow good at situational football while putting up awful QB stats is part of what makes me believe there might be a lot more there. It's very weird and most weirdnesses normalise. He looks like a totally different guy in those situations; there's a chance it normalises by him being that guy a lot more often. That's still probably not good enough on a non-rookie QB salary so I'd like to move on, but I will be very curious about how it goes since we probably won't.

I would start to actually get happy if he started looking like a top 10 QB. That would also by my expectation for the year after if he earned another year's grace.

That's where I'm at: I don't think you can say whether KP has had a successful/non succesfful season JUST by metrics.

That's why I said I want to see if he can read defenses/zone/etc. The stats will be a lagging indicator whether he does those things or not.

And 25 TD's in this offense (likely to be ground heavy) to me is unrealistic

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

That's where I'm at: I don't think you can say whether KP has had a successful/non succesfful season JUST by metrics.

That's why I said I want to see if he can read defenses/zone/etc. The stats will be a lagging indicator whether he does those things or not.

And 25 TD's in this offense (likely to be ground heavy) to me is unrealistic

KP will likely be hurt for 4-5 games again which I factored in as well.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

KP will likely be hurt for 4-5 games again which I factored in as well.

And I'll also say before I'm labeled as a KP fanboi, I don't see him progressing much. He's got Zach Wilson vibes ala "career backup". Although Wilson is looking like he might be out of the league in a couple years...

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

And I'll also say before I'm labeled as a KP fanboi, I don't see him progressing much. He's got Zach Wilson vibes ala "career backup". Although Wilson is looking like he might be out of the league in a couple years...

I wouldn’t waste time worrying about the KP mouth breathers. Being patient with a young QB doesn’t make you a fanboy.

 

[WickedWrister]

That's where I'm at: I don't think you can say whether KP has had a successful/non succesfful season JUST by metrics.

That's why I said I want to see if he can read defenses/zone/etc. The stats will be a lagging indicator whether he does those things or not.

And 25 TD's in this offense (likely to be ground heavy) to me is unrealistic

Yeah passing TD's is just one metric, albeit the one Pickett is historically bad at. That's why I think it gets a lot of attention from Steelers fans.

But 25 passing TD's in a 17 game season isn't even 1.5 per game. There was a lot of QB injuries around the league so not many individual guys hit that mark, but that's pretty much a league average figure and would be in line with the top 15ish mark we want to see.

I agree we're definitely going to skew run heavy, so points per game is probably more important. Another bottom 5 offense scoring in the teens just isn't going to cut it. If we're scoring like 21ppg that means a big uptick in RZ% and cutting down on the 3 and outs.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yeah passing TD's is just one metric, albeit the one Pickett is historically bad at. That's why I think it gets a lot of attention from Steelers fans.

But 25 passing TD's in a 17 game season isn't even 1.5 per game. There was a lot of QB injuries around the league so not many individual guys hit that mark, but that's pretty much a league average figure and would be in line with the top 15ish mark we want to see.

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I agree we're definitely going to skew run heavy, so points per game is probably more important. Another bottom 5 offense scoring in the teens just isn't going to cut it. If we're scoring like 21ppg that means a big uptick in RZ% and cutting down on the 3 and outs.

KP is never healthy so you have to factor in maybe a 13-14 game season.

Him playing 17 games seems rather optimistic given his first two years.

So 20 TDs in 13-14 games puts him right around 1.5 per.

 

[WickedWrister]

KP is never healthy so you have to factor in maybe a 13-14 game season.

Him playing 17 games seems rather optimistic given his first two years.

So 20 TDs in 13-14 games puts him right around 1.5 per.

Yeah, that's like about the bare minimum I think we could say is acceptable for this year.