OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 2022 Handball season has arrived!

[Josey Wales]

Breaking: Los Angeles Chargers will hire Kellen Moore as their new OC.

He parted ways yesterday with the Dallas Cowboys.

 

[Peat]

I’m pulling for Philly because Weidl was a big architect of building that team and his vision for how a team should be built is right in line with mine.

Eagles getting a ring would give him a lot of sway in April, which is exactly what I want.

This. One hundred times this.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I am actually intrigued for AR2's son. He's seems like a chip off his grandfather's block. He has been involved in football operations. AR2 never really was - he was a lawyer. Dan was so good because he was heavily involved in the actual football operations and was good at it - his grandson seems to have some of those traits from what I have read.



They are probably taking Bresee this year, and one of the numerous high end CBs at the end of the first. So I don't think it will matter. And by time Hurts is making big money, the cap will have gone up enough to offset some, if not most of that amount.

He has final say for this org as the majority owner. Even when other owners made a big rumble about moving on from Tomlin, he ignored them and did what he wanted. So far, Tomlin hasn't justified that confidence.

As Tomlin Purgatory goes on indefinitely I'm becoming less angry at Tomlin than AR2, as he's the one who allows this to continue. He's the one that makes Tomlin feel invincible and accepts mediocrity.

How his son will do, who knows. We are about a decade out from that happening I suspect - and Tomlin will still be here then I bet.

I do know that anyone who throws that "who you gonna get" Tomlin BS at me next time, is going to get the Philly success story thrown right back at them.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

 

[JTG]

He has final say for this org as the majority owner. Even when other owners made a big rumble about moving on from Tomlin, he ignored them and did what he wanted. So far, Tomlin hasn't justified that confidence.

As Tomlin Purgatory goes on indefinitely I'm becoming less angry at Tomlin than AR2, as he's the one who allows this to continue. He's the one that makes Tomlin feel invincible and accepts mediocrity.

How his son will do, who knows. We are about a decade out from that happening I suspect - and Tomlin will still be here then I bet.

I do know that anyone who throws that "who you gonna get" Tomlin BS at me next time, is going to get the Philly success story thrown right back at them.

I think too often those who say, "Who are you going to get to replace him" fail to bring into the equation that sometimes even a good coach loses the room. It happened to Reid in Philly and they actually had much more success there than Tomlin has had here. Sometimes you just need to move on because people that are there to create the prohibitive reasons as to why you aren't getting over the hump very rarely are the ones to identify and fix those reasons.

Tomlin is a good motivator. I do feel like he can get young men to buy in and can assist them with becoming adults, but as we saw in the Killer B era - he has a hard time holding stars accountable. He needs coordinators like he had when he first got into the league though. Once those solid coordinators left, it has been all downhill because he wants to coordinate by proxy and he's not that good at it.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I think too often those who say, "Who are you going to get to replace him" fail to bring into the equation that sometimes even a good coach loses the room. It happened to Reid in Philly and they actually had much more success there than Tomlin has had here. Sometimes you just need to move on because people that are there to create the prohibitive reasons as to why you aren't getting over the hump very rarely are the ones to identify and fix those reasons.

Tomlin is a good motivator. I do feel like he can get young men to buy in and can assist them with becoming adults, but as we saw in the Killer B era - he has a hard time holding stars accountable. He needs coordinators like he had when he first got into the league though. Once those solid coordinators left, it has been all downhill because he wants to coordinate by proxy and he's not that good at it.

I feel pretty strongly that if at some point Tomlin was held accountable and feared for his job, he’d actually be the coach he’s purported to be.

He may have been coaching elsewhere, but he’d be a much better coach than he is now… one who had to face real consequences and thus grow from those experiences.

AR2 has essentially babied him and the media because of that have helped to artificially grow his ego and now it’s clear he thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room, and hires cronies he can control.

When a coach ends 10 of his last 12 seasons without a playoff win, it’s hard to craft a logical argument he’s been successful.

 

[Peat]

I think too often those who say, "Who are you going to get to replace him" fail to bring into the equation that sometimes even a good coach loses the room. It happened to Reid in Philly and they actually had much more success there than Tomlin has had here. Sometimes you just need to move on because people that are there to create the prohibitive reasons as to why you aren't getting over the hump very rarely are the ones to identify and fix those reasons.

Tbf, he very clearly hasn't lost the room.

I don't have all the history of being a Steelers fan so I'm happy to judge Tomlin on how he's doing the task in front of him - turn Pickett into a winner and compete a rebuild.

To which the answer is he seems to be on track but there's a conservatism to the method that leaves me a little worried. I'm all for going slow in putting on the load but there's a real chance that not asking him to do enough stunts his growth. Right now, I don't know whether they believe in pushing Pickett to be a QB who can beat teams with his mind and arm, or whether in their heart of hearts they think they can win with him as the game manager with an elite running and defence game and will therefore avoid asking him to be that gamewinning guy.

Seems a little rough to believe that's the winning way.

 

[JTG]

Tbf, he very clearly hasn't lost the room.

I don't have all the history of being a Steelers fan so I'm happy to judge Tomlin on how he's doing the task in front of him - turn Pickett into a winner and compete a rebuild.

To which the answer is he seems to be on track but there's a conservatism to the method that leaves me a little worried. I'm all for going slow in putting on the load but there's a real chance that not asking him to do enough stunts his growth. Right now, I don't know whether they believe in pushing Pickett to be a QB who can beat teams with his mind and arm, or whether in their heart of hearts they think they can win with him as the game manager with an elite running and defence game and will therefore avoid asking him to be that gamewinning guy.

Seems a little rough to believe that's the winning way.

Guys are leaving the organization and the pastures are greener. Almost every guy that has left has both made money and been more successful. It wasn't that way. Guys may leave, but usually the money they gained, the had to take a hit in terms of winning and atmosphere.

I don't hate Tomlin like some, but I do think we have lost our way here. This standard he speaks of isn't to the standard of teams past. This team needs to win a playoff game next year or he should be fired.

 

[Peat]

Guys are leaving the organization and the pastures are greener. Almost every guy that has left has both made money and been more successful. It wasn't that way. Guys may leave, but usually the money they gained, the had to take a hit in terms of winning and atmosphere.

I don't hate Tomlin like some, but I do think we have lost our way here. This standard he speaks of isn't to the standard of teams past. This team needs to win a playoff game next year or he should be fired.

Right now I do not think that the 53 players who'll start the season will look like a roster that should win a playoff game. Scrape into the playoffs and get bounced by a genuinely good team sounds more likely. I think Khan will have to have one hell of an offseason to make it look different.

And I don't like the idea of tying any coach's fate to that when I'm not really sure any coach would make me feel different. Maybe I'd have more belief in another coach to develop these players quicker.

Maybe Tomlin shouldn't be here. As said, I wasn't there, I didn't know. But just in terms of what should happen to him based off next season... I dunno. Guess we'll see how Khan does. But my expectations are those of any rebuilding team, not the six times superbowl winners.

 

[JTG]

Right now I do not think that the 53 players who'll start the season will look like a roster that should win a playoff game. Scrape into the playoffs and get bounced by a genuinely good team sounds more likely. I think Khan will have to have one hell of an offseason to make it look different.

And I don't like the idea of tying any coach's fate to that when I'm not really sure any coach would make me feel different. Maybe I'd have more belief in another coach to develop these players quicker.

Maybe Tomlin shouldn't be here. As said, I wasn't there, I didn't know. But just in terms of what should happen to him based off next season... I dunno. Guess we'll see how Khan does. But my expectations are those of any rebuilding team, not the six times superbowl winners.

This isn't a rebuilding team though. This defense SHOULD be really, really good. The offensive line came together. They still could use an upgrade, but I think they are going to get one in the draft. Pickett should be better just by having 1st team reps from the hop. Hopefully Najee can be healthy again, we get Austin back, and Pickens continues to grow into his role. This team next year should compete. To think otherwise, IMO, is giving them way too much grace. Playoffs or new coach is where I'm at.

 

[Peat]

This isn't a rebuilding team though. This defense SHOULD be really, really good. The offensive line came together. They still could use an upgrade, but I think they are going to get one in the draft. Pickett should be better just by having 1st team reps from the hop. Hopefully Najee can be healthy again, we get Austin back, and Pickens continues to grow into his role. This team next year should compete. To think otherwise, IMO, is giving them way too much grace. Playoffs or new coach is where I'm at.

You've got a rosier view than me. The defence has big potential because of its stars but its got some big holes to plug this offseason to keep things going around them. DL, ILB, and CB all got issues.

Offence... I'm not sure I trust the OL to keep doing it. There's a lot of guys who have been inconsistent or not that good. But the big one is Pickett.

I dunno. Maybe if Pickett keeps taking strides like we hope I'll change my mind. Maybe the aim for the reason is to turn Pickett into the guy. But... guess I don't know enough about QB development to know what to expect.

But this team look like a rebuilding business to me. Hopefully close but still there.

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

I feel pretty strongly that if at some point Tomlin was held accountable and feared for his job, he’d actually be the coach he’s purported to be.

He may have been coaching elsewhere, but he’d be a much better coach than he is now… one who had to face real consequences and thus grow from those experiences.

AR2 has essentially babied him and the media because of that have helped to artificially grow his ego and now it’s clear he thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room, and hires cronies he can control.

When a coach ends 10 of his last 12 seasons without a playoff win, it’s hard to craft a logical argument he’s been successful.

We just needed better players for those 10 years...

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Imo if they significantly invest in the offense they can make some noise and more importantly help Pickett develop properly. If not, a couple injuries could derail the offense.

I would draft 2 OL, one in the first 3 picks. Id also bring in a cheap vet like Lewan on top of that. The line won’t be healthy like 2022 again.

Bring in WR talent. DJ was incredibly unreliable, and Pickens has only one year. Nothing behind them and Pat whatsoever. Some good players in FA that aren’t bad. Pascal would be an interesting as a reliable, blocking “big slot” and maybe wouldn’t be super expensive. Chark is interesting but could be pricey. Maybe add in the draft but hard for year 1 wide outs to make an impact.

The RB by committee late in the year was great and hope they continue that.

I think you have to look at the teams in the final 4 and SB— no holes anywhere on offense. Great lines (pre Bengals injuries), depth of reliable quality pass catchers at WR and TE, and 2-3 quality RBs. On top of stud QBs outside of Purdy.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Pat Freiermuth Admits Steelers Didn't Have Hot Routes Built Into Offense

To get an idea of how simplified the Pittsburgh Steelers’ offense was in its first year without QB Ben Roethlisberger, the offense didn’t even have hot routes. And that’s not hyperbole. It’s what TE Pat Freiermuth revealed during last week’s live show of Ben Roethlisberger’s Footbahlin’ podcast...

steelersdepot.com

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Pat Freiermuth: It took Kenny Pickett a bit to get going, but he showed he's the real deal

Steelers tight end Pat Freiermuth played with quarterback Ben Roethlisberger during his rookie season in the NFL and there was no question about who the leader of the offense was when Roethlisberger was in the huddle.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

You've got a rosier view than me. The defence has big potential because of its stars but its got some big holes to plug this offseason to keep things going around them. DL, ILB, and CB all got issues.

Offence... I'm not sure I trust the OL to keep doing it. There's a lot of guys who have been inconsistent or not that good. But the big one is Pickett.

I dunno. Maybe if Pickett keeps taking strides like we hope I'll change my mind. Maybe the aim for the reason is to turn Pickett into the guy. But... guess I don't know enough about QB development to know what to expect.

But this team look like a rebuilding business to me. Hopefully close but still there.

There really isn’t a way to know exactly like we did with the young Crosby/Malkin era when it was obvious they would win a cup or two.

Look at the three best teams left standing:

No one really expected the Chiefs to become a powerhouse with Mahomes. He was a controversial pick that sat out his rookie year then exploded his second year.

With the Bengals people had up and down opinions on Burrow after he was drafted. His rookie year he had some big games, but there was never enough evidence he was going to take them to the SB the next season… and this was a franchise that had not won a playoff game in 30 years, so their SB run was pretty surprising.

Eagles were 4-11-1 and 9-8 the last two seasons with rumblings last off-season Hurts was just a future mediocre QB, now they are in the SB.

The biggest key was the QBs leapfrogging into the upper echelon out of nowhere really.

I think a big draft and finding the right guys in FA could help this team take a giant leap fwd next year, but the elephant in the room is coaching, so…

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Is Germaine Pratt going to make more or less money than Tremaine Edmunds?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

One thing that was striking to me about yesterday was that four TD's were scored on drives where teams converted a 4th down. Of all the stuff that Tomlin does good and bad, other than his hiring of assistant coaches, his extreme conservatism on going for it on 4th down is probably the most frustrating to me. I doubt he'd have gone for any of the ones that were converted yesterday - just puts so much pressure on the defense.

"We don't live in our fears"

Except he certainly coaches like it

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Is Germaine Pratt going to make more or less money than Tremaine Edmunds?

I think Edmunds gets more because he is 2 years younger. Edmunds will be 25 next season while Pratt will be 27. A team can sign Edmunds to a 5 year contract and he won't even be 30 by the time it is up.

 

[Josey Wales]

The Pittsburgh Stabilitys.

“I don't really evaluate Mike on anything other than I’m glad he’s our coach." -Art Rooney II

About as telling a quote as you'll see.

Gerry Dulac: Mike Tomlin's job looks safe — and another extension could be coming

Most franchises that haven’t won a playoff game in six years and are one of 18 teams that haven’t even been to the Super Bowl in a dozen years...

www.post-gazette.com

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I feel pretty strongly that if at some point Tomlin was held accountable and feared for his job, he’d actually be the coach he’s purported to be.

He may have been coaching elsewhere, but he’d be a much better coach than he is now… one who had to face real consequences and thus grow from those experiences.

AR2 has essentially babied him and the media because of that have helped to artificially grow his ego and now it’s clear he thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room, and hires cronies he can control.

When a coach ends 10 of his last 12 seasons without a playoff win, it’s hard to craft a logical argument he’s been successful.

You can also say the same thing about Ben and Tomlin's relationship.
I think we can all agree that Ben was a physical freak and was a flat out great football player. But his lack of preparation and workout regimen was lacking. Ben could have gone down as 1 of the greatest QB's of all time if he did those things- I truly believe that.

Cowher certainly didn't baby Ben and he had a SB win and a AFCCG appearance to show for it in his few years with the QB. Remember that Rooney sent a clear shot across Cowher's bow ~1999 where he publically stated that Cowher needs to start delivering success or his job is in jeopardy. Not surprising, soon after that the Steelers start becoming 1 of the most successful teams of the decade.

Along comes Tomlin and his "player's coach" mantra. His lack of accountability with not only Ben, but others who let the lockerroom run amok with their clownish behavior: AB, Bell, Blount, Harrison, etc.

With Tomlin not being held accountable, he in turn prefers to turn a blind eye to shortcomings. It just goes to show you, much like family dysfunction, sports dysfunction is indeed learned.

 

[Pens1566]

Cam is a fill in for the pro bowl ... not that it matters much.

 

[xlm34]

Cam is a fill in for the pro bowl ... not that it matters much.

This confirms my suspicions that Cam may be as good of a player as Tyler Huntley.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Cam is a fill in for the pro bowl ... not that it matters much.

I last watched the Pro Bowl in like 2000 or something like that. It was when that RB from NE nearly lost his leg from twisting it on the beach. Think his name was Troy - something

 

[Andy99]

The pro bowl is even worse a game than the NHL all star game lol, if that’s possible…both leagues should do away with these games