OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 2022 Handball season has arrived!

[Flying Dego]

*watches highlights*

He spins out of that first tackle after the reception a lot. Part of me wonders whether NFL CBs are going to let him do that but there's definitely some freaky talent there.

I doubt he's there at 17 but...he just feels like a good shot at being one of those absolute game breakers. If he was, he'd immediately thrust us into the conversation alongside Pickens...

That is to say that KP continues improving with the group which I don't see how he wouldn't.

Hard to tell who'll be available but I'm sure they'll have a shot at someone high end. I'm very open to even nabbing Mayer (TE) if he fell. Create the old Pats 2 TEs and gash teams with mismatches.

 

[Peat]

I doubt he's there at 17 but...he just feels like a good shot at being one of those absolute game breakers. If he was, he'd immediately thrust us into the conversation alongside Pickens...

That is to say that KP continues improving with the group which I don't see how he wouldn't.

I can't imagine him being there. You'd have to trade up to get him. No way a 6'4" WR who can move is lasting that long in a WR slim draft. But yeah, it'd be real nice to have him as a compliment to Pickens. I think Pickens can be great and post great numbers, and even distort defences due to fear of what he can do, but he can't do everything. I'd agree with you that Johnston possibly can.

Which is, of course, why he's not at 17.

 

[Pens1566]

I can't imagine him being there. You'd have to trade up to get him. No way a 6'4" WR who can move is lasting that long in a WR slim draft. But yeah, it'd be real nice to have him as a compliment to Pickens. I think Pickens can be great and post great numbers, and even distort defences due to fear of what he can do, but he can't do everything. I'd agree with you that Johnston possibly can.

Which is, of course, why he's not at 17.

Agree. It's possible he's there, but doubtful. Would require more than a few teams to prefer Addison, etc. along with possibly a few reaches ahead of us as well. Stranger things have happened though.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I think everyone agrees with that.

It invites the question of how do you get Pickett there. Usage and weapons will have as much to do with his development as Pickett's ability, so you ask questions about them.

Are the WRs and TE not good enough, good enough, absolutely lethal and a huge benefit, or what?

I like the guys they have but it seems to just be good enough for me in terms of his top 3 targets, and missing another guy to offer another option and step in if there's injuries.

They want to get Pickett to that top 10 spot sooner rather than later, it's an area to look at.

Here's the thing though. Let's wave a magic wand and say we have Pickens, Muth, and an upgrade of DJ at the other receiver.
Tomlin will not all of a sudden embrace a willingness to start throwing the ball down the field. We saw this during the Killer B's era. The offense gained chunk plays off the backs of individual performances, not design. Whether that was AB getting YAC or Bell dancing around defenders for big plays.

Tomlin's priority is to "protect the defense". And he has a misguided notion that scoring too soon is detrimental to the defense. His perfect drive would be 13 plays that consume 9 minutes of clock.

His approach was fine in 2008 but NFL offenses have evolved. The longer your drive, the more you open up the possibility of a missed assignment, a penalty, etc that stall your progress.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Here's the thing though. Let's wave a magic wand and say we have Pickens, Muth, and an upgrade of DJ at the other receiver.
Tomlin will not all of a sudden embrace a willingness to start throwing the ball down the field. We saw this during the Killer B's era. The offense gained chunk plays off the backs of individual performances, not design. Whether that was AB getting YAC or Bell dancing around defenders for big plays.

Tomlin's priority is to "protect the defense". And he has a misguided notion that scoring too soon is detrimental to the defense. His perfect drive would be 13 plays that consume 9 minutes of clock.

His approach was fine in 2008 but NFL offenses have evolved. The longer your drive, the more you open up the possibility of a missed assignment, a penalty, etc that stall your progress.

Lol. He didn’t play protect the defense when he had a prime Ben. Ben was literally talking about the fans wanting to fire randy after they scored 26 a game in 2020 because they didn’t run it enough. Ben had a career year in 2018

Here's the thing though. Let's wave a magic wand and say we have Pickens, Muth, and an upgrade of DJ at the other receiver.
Tomlin will not all of a sudden embrace a willingness to start throwing the ball down the field. We saw this during the Killer B's era. The offense gained chunk plays off the backs of individual performances, not design. Whether that was AB getting YAC or Bell dancing around defenders for big plays.

Tomlin's priority is to "protect the defense". And he has a misguided notion that scoring too soon is detrimental to the defense. His perfect drive would be 13 plays that consume 9 minutes of clock.

His approach was fine in 2008 but NFL offenses have evolved. The longer your drive, the more you open up the possibility of a missed assignment, a penalty, etc that stall your progress.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Yeah, with WRs now getting bonkers money, teams are seeking out and trading up to get players like Johnston. Look at last years draft. Zero chance he is there at 17. Most if not all Mock drafts have him going in the top 10, or at least by pick 12.

My thought is the trade up spot is the Eagles at pick 10. If Johnston falls that far, someone will trade up to that spot to take him.

From a "Who will be available perspective", it is a guarantee these players will not be available at 17:

Bryce Young
Will Levis
CJ Stroud
Jalen Carter
Will Andersen
Myles Murphy
Quentin Johnston

Most if not all Mock Drafts have these players selected before 17: (But they are potential candidates to get close or slip)

Bryan Bresee
Paris Johnson Jr
Peter Skoronski
Tyree Wilson


Thus that is 11 players that basically are a consensus by the experts for the players that will be gone before 17.

Then you have the players that revolve around the 17th pick:

Michael Mayer
Jordan Addison
Jaxson Smith-Njigba
Cam Smith
Broderick Jones
Anton Harrison
Bryan Branch
Kelee Ringo
Christian Gonzalez
Joey Porter Jr
Trent Simpson
Devon Weatherspoon
O'Cyrus Torrence

Then we have the true wild cards that could shake up the draft above 17:

Anthony Richardson
Tanner McKee
Bijan Robinson
Jalin Hyatt

 

[Flying Dego]

Yeah, with WRs now getting bonkers money, teams are seeking out and trading up to get players like Johnston. Look at last years draft. Zero chance he is there at 17. Most if not all Mock drafts have him going in the top 10, or at least by pick 12.

My thought is the trade up spot is the Eagles at pick 10. If Johnston falls that far, someone will trade up to that spot to take him.

From a "Who will be available perspective", it is a guarantee these players will not be available at 17:

Bryce Young
Will Levis
CJ Stroud
Jalen Carter
Will Andersen
Myles Murphy
Quentin Johnston

Most if not all Mock Drafts have these players selected before 17: (But they are potential candidates to get close or slip)

Bryan Bresee
Paris Johnson Jr
Peter Skoronski
Tyree Wilson


Thus that is 11 players that basically are a consensus by the experts for the players that will be gone before 17.

Then you have the players that revolve around the 17th pick:

Michael Mayer
Jordan Addison
Jaxson Smith-Njigba
Cam Smith
Broderick Jones
Anton Harrison
Bryan Branch
Kelee Ringo
Christian Gonzalez
Joey Porter Jr
Trent Simpson
Devon Weatherspoon
O'Cyrus Torrence

Then we have the true wild cards that could shake up the draft above 17:

Anthony Richardson
Tanner McKee
Bijan Robinson
Jalin Hyatt

I like the idea of the TE Mayer if he falls to us. It actually would fit the Tomlin conservative run approach.

It'd give Pickett two mismatch TEs and we run power sets with both out there. Would make us eat minutes and give KP easy targets especially towards the Redzone where we stink.

 

[Pens1566]

I like the idea of the TE Mayer if he falls to us. It actually would fit the Tomlin conservative run approach.

It'd give Pickett two mismatch TEs and we run power sets with both out there. Would make us eat minutes and give KP easy targets especially towards the Redzone where we stink.

I expect this theory will pick up more discussion along the way. It does fit.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I like the idea of the TE Mayer if he falls to us. It actually would fit the Tomlin conservative run approach.

It'd give Pickett two mismatch TEs and we run power sets with both out there. Would make us eat minutes and give KP easy targets especially towards the Redzone where we stink.

I think Muth and Heyward pretty much seal the deal they won’t take a TE in round 1.

Basically QB, TE and RB seem to be the only positions it’s almost an iron clad guarantee they don’t take in round one.

I highly suspect we are looking at LT, CB and DL in order of what position they are most likely to grab round 1.

 

[Josey Wales]

Pittsburgh Steelers

@Steelers
·
1m
We have signed RB Anthony McFarland Jr., LB Chapelle Russell and DT Renell Wren to Reserve/Future contracts.

 

[JTG]

That’s actually a good point on Addison. I’d be down for them to take him because I think he could be a really solid slot receiver for the team, but he’s not all that different from Johnson.

Like you said, he’s a phenomenal route runner but has drop issues. He’s also not particularly fast for his size.

I don't get wrapped up with speed because AB wasn't "fast." But he was so good at getting separation that he looked like he was blowing guys away.

The issue I have with Addison are the drops. They were my issue with him at Pitt. Wayyy too many concentration drops.

I have to see his route tree expand a lot more before I feel that way, but we'll see. He also doesn't seem dangerous after the catch. Those are my two main concerns about wondering if he can be a true #1.

That's why I say it may be a good idea if we are trading Johnson to trade him to Arizona for Hopkins. Pickens could learn a thing or two from him and he's still an outstanding receiver. It'd probably take Johnson and 32.

 

[Peat]

I have to see his route tree expand a lot more before I feel that way, but we'll see. He also doesn't seem dangerous after the catch. Those are my two main concerns about wondering if he can be a true #1.

Would you consider him a true #1 if he gets the full route tree but never develops after the catch?

 

[wheelz87]

So what are the odds Lamar is fine but he isn’t playing because he hasn’t been paid yet?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Would you consider him a true #1 if he gets the full route tree but never develops after the catch?

If he can run a full tree and be a go to guy in every situation I’d be ok if he’s not a YAC monster.

It may also be his route running that is an issue with the YAC as well. Ie cleaner releases/breaks and developing his tree will give him much better opportunities to run with the ball.

So what are the odds Lamar is fine but he isn’t playing because he hasn’t been paid yet?

I’m starting to suspect that but am not sure if it’s fair or not to him.

 

[WickedWrister]

Yeah, with WRs now getting bonkers money, teams are seeking out and trading up to get players like Johnston. Look at last years draft. Zero chance he is there at 17. Most if not all Mock drafts have him going in the top 10, or at least by pick 12.

My thought is the trade up spot is the Eagles at pick 10. If Johnston falls that far, someone will trade up to that spot to take him.

From a "Who will be available perspective", it is a guarantee these players will not be available at 17:

Bryce Young
Will Levis
CJ Stroud
Jalen Carter
Will Andersen
Myles Murphy
Quentin Johnston

Most if not all Mock Drafts have these players selected before 17: (But they are potential candidates to get close or slip)

Bryan Bresee
Paris Johnson Jr
Peter Skoronski
Tyree Wilson


Thus that is 11 players that basically are a consensus by the experts for the players that will be gone before 17.

Then you have the players that revolve around the 17th pick:

Michael Mayer
Jordan Addison
Jaxson Smith-Njigba
Cam Smith
Broderick Jones
Anton Harrison
Bryan Branch
Kelee Ringo
Christian Gonzalez
Joey Porter Jr
Trent Simpson
Devon Weatherspoon
O'Cyrus Torrence

Then we have the true wild cards that could shake up the draft above 17:

Anthony Richardson
Tanner McKee
Bijan Robinson
Jalin Hyatt

I've been seeing a ton of Joey Porter Jr. mocked to the Steelers. Obvious family connections and Tomlin has sought comfort in having more intel on local guys. Didn't we have like 4 sets of brothers at one point? Plus the KP8 connection.

I'm cool with any of these CB's/OL with pick #17, and then grabbing the other position with the Bears Pick #32. PFF Mock simulator is pretty broken right now but this would be the dream. Mauch for the meme's but I like his position flexibility and athleticism. I just basically want a road grading LT that can get Dan Moore Jr. out of the starting 5.

Don't want to to even think about a skill position player until the 3rd, and the value on the board would probably be RB which we don't need.

 

[JTG]

I think Pickens after the catch is going to be awesome. He's a bully. Give him an offseason and a training camp with Kenny.

 

[WickedWrister]

I think Pickens after the catch is going to be awesome. He's a bully. Give him an offseason and a training camp with Kenny.

Wasn't really his game in college and I didn't see a whole lot in his rookie year that makes me think he's some YAC God. Which is fine, but I think he profiles as more of a downfield receiver like AJ Green

 

[Empoleon8771]

I've been looking at PFF's mock draft tool and I think they have some extremely bizarre rankings for some of their players. I think there is extremely small chance that Porter lasts until pick #32, and that's where they have him as his average spot.

Like I posted yesterday, I hope they trade up with picks #32 and #80 to pick #22 and land either Johnson Jr or Skoronski at #17 and Porter Jr at #22 or Porter Jr at #17 and Jones at #22.

 

[JTG]

I've been looking at PFF's mock draft tool and I think they have some extremely bizarre rankings for some of their players. I think there is extremely small chance that Porter lasts until pick #32, and that's where they have him as his average spot.

Like I posted yesterday, I hope they trade up with picks #32 and #80 to pick #22 and land either Johnson Jr or Skoronski at #17 and Porter Jr at #22 or Porter Jr at #17 and Jones at #22.

This time of year those rankings drastically change almost daily.

Wasn't really his game in college and I didn't see a whole lot in his rookie year that makes me think he's some YAC God. Which is fine, but I think he profiles as more of a downfield receiver like AJ Green

I don't think he's going to be a YAC God, but I would worry about him with the ball in his hands either.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This time of year those rankings drastically change almost daily.

Yeah I've been using the consensus draft board I found on another website, which basically just averages out the rankings of the hundreds of mock drafts being thrown out right now.

2023 Consensus Big Board | NFL Mock Draft Database

The 2023 Consensus NFL Big Board from NFL Mock Draft Database. We've compiled all featured big boards into a single board.

www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com

In terms of players that interest the Steelers, this consensus big board has Johnson Jr at 10, Gonzalez at 13, Skoronski at 14, Smith at 15, Porter Jr at 17, Jones at 22 and Phillips III at 25. I think it's entirely reasonable to think that you can get a LT and CB from that group if you have picks #17 and #22. My realistic hope is Porter Jr at 17 and Jones at 22.

 

[JTG]

A guy I think would fit in really well here is Andrei Iosivas-WR-Princeton. He was on Bruce Feldman's Freaks List, I believe. 6'4, 200 pounds. Track star with crazy measurables.

The Draft Network

TDN

thedraftnetwork.com

 

[Peat]

I've been looking at PFF's mock draft tool and I think they have some extremely bizarre rankings for some of their players. I think there is extremely small chance that Porter lasts until pick #32, and that's where they have him as his average spot.

Like I posted yesterday, I hope they trade up with picks #32 and #80 to pick #22 and land either Johnson Jr or Skoronski at #17 and Porter Jr at #22 or Porter Jr at #17 and Jones at #22.

'
Tbf, it's more sane than the mock draft simulator I did when Jalen Carter fell from 2nd on the board to 17OA. Low bar I know.

Suffice to say I don't think you can use any of the mock draft simulators for a good idea of who we might be getting. Using lots of mocks and seeking a consensus is a bit shaky, but compared to the simulators, it's like hacking the databases of all 32 teams...


Also on a bunch of other stuff

Re Pickens and YAC - You watch his college highlights and you can't see it. You read his draft profiles and they don't really mention it. I think he can be better than he's shown because I believe every component of the offence can do better but I doubt he's ever going to be more than his opportunities.

Re Two TEs - I'm with Jiggy that with the talent on the team, it doesn't make a whole ton of sense. Sure, Gentry and Heyward aren't Mayer - maybe Mayer split between two guys - but it's pretty good and there's a bunch of other impact players going to be available. Not unless there's a spectacular fall.

Also how likely is it that Jackson on a restructured contract is part of the CB group next season?

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I would say Smith-Njigba *maybe* fills that type of role the best in this class. Deebo and AJ aren't in this draft. And the more I think about it, the more I'm just not a fan of Addison here either. I get the connection with Kenny, he'd be coming into a good situation here, and I'm sure the coaches are comfortable with him, but we may as well keep DJ if we want Addison. He gets separation with the best of them, but drops balls and gets pushed around.

If we are trading DJ, we need to trade for a WR, IMO, so it's not really worth trading DJ as much as I would like them to.

agree on DJ v. Addison

I like JSN too but I think Boutte from LSU, Washington from PSU fit that player type I’m looking for well.

 

[JTG]

agree on DJ v. Addison

I like JSN too but I think Boutte from LSU, Washington from PSU fit that player type I’m looking for well.

Yeah, Washington is a lot like those guys. Washington is a sophomore though. I keep forgetting about Boutte.

 

[JTG]

A guy I don't think we talk enough about is Trent Simpson-ILB Clemson. He's a lot like Troy was...he's all over. He's uber-talented. I know preseason a lot outlets had him in their top 5. I think Robinson is going to be a good run stuffing LB, but we could use that coverage guy. I think Simpson would fit in well.