OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 2022 Handball season has arrived!

[xlm34]

Thinking about things since April until now…

I was terrified Tomlin was going to be stupid and take Willis over KP.

It’s the first time I had any emotion on draft night since Roth was taken. I was actually pacing the floor during the commercial before Harris came out.

I thought for sure I was going to have to suffer watching Willis pretend to be a QB when the guy I wanted was right there.

Then Harris announced KP and it was the first time I truly felt hope for this team in years.

It was nice to finally feel that emotional investment once again in my favorite sports team.

Tomlin then made the rough call to play KP, and stuck with him during his struggles because he recognized his growth was the future of this team.

So while I have severe doubts about Tomlin going fwd, I just wanted to give him props for the KP pick and showing his belief in him all season.

This was the first season in years I didn’t think “glad that shits finally over” at the end.

The only thing I think he didn’t handle well with the transition from Ben was not giving Pickett more meaningful reps during camp and the preseason games.

It could have made a difference since it was pretty clear there were some chemistry issues early on with Pickett.

 

[edog37]

Thinking about things since April until now…

I was terrified Tomlin was going to be stupid and take Willis over KP.

It’s the first time I had any emotion on draft night since Roth was taken. I was actually pacing the floor during the commercial before Harris came out.

I thought for sure I was going to have to suffer watching Willis pretend to be a QB when the guy I wanted was right there.

Then Harris announced KP and it was the first time I truly felt hope for this team in years.

It was nice to finally feel that emotional investment once again in my favorite sports team.

Tomlin then made the rough call to play KP, and stuck with him during his struggles because he recognized his growth was the future of this team.

So while I have severe doubts about Tomlin going fwd, I just wanted to give him props for the KP pick and showing his belief in him all season.

This was the first season in years I didn’t think “glad that shits finally over” at the end.

KP gives us hope, but they will stunt his growth if they keep that garbage OC Canada.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Count me in as a guy who's intrigued as to what Calvin Austin could offer. Gets hard for him to carve anything out if we draft a WR high to go with Pickens and Johnson. Not a reason to not do it, but a little wrinkle to add.

My thought is they see him as the jet sweep/slot/wide receiver screen guy. I think he can certainly carve out a place if he shows he can make plays. The offense desperately needs a guy who can turn a small play into a big play.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

KP gives us hope, but they will stunt his growth if they keep that garbage OC Canada.

I agree, but I was trying to make it a positive post about Tomlin.

He got the guy I was begging for and stuck with him when he was shitting the bed hard.

So didn’t want to bring any negative vibes.

The only thing I think he didn’t handle well with the transition from Ben was not giving Pickett more meaningful reps during camp and the preseason games.

It could have made a difference since it was pretty clear there were some chemistry issues early on with Pickett.

I thought about that but it would have been nitpicking to a degree.

Again just wanted to put my appreciation out there for Tomlin getting the guy I wanted, sticking with him, and making it a fun season for me to watch.

Actually bummed it’s over and haven’t felt that way in way too long.

 

[OnMyOwn]

Looking at some of these bum playoff teams while we are on the outside is a shame. I wanted to see KP in a playoff game for some experience. Definitely a fun season overall.

Can’t stand Canadas offense and hope that changes, though.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Tomlin fans are comical and so desperate like the poster you addressed, they can’t wait to beat their chests about another “winning season” even when they miss the playoffs.

Those of us living in reality see a guy who just posted another single digit win season. He’s now failed to reach double digit wins in 4 of the last 5 years.

He also just extended his playoff winless streak to six years. Which once again is a shameful modern franchise record of futility.

I bet not a single person around here could name the last Steelers coach to hold that woeful record.

Funny how different owners have different expectations.

This was in an article mentioning BB will be returning as HC

Belichick said that will include a standard-operating-procedure meeting with owner Robert Kraft, who in March had said he wasn't happy that the franchise hadn't won a playoff game since Super Bowl LIII over the Los Angeles Rams on Feb. 3, 2019.

I think they should, but I’m just not convinced that the Steelers want to replace Moore. At least not enough to trade up for his replacement.

Again, "good enough" is a terrible approach to football and ANY business.
This offense is a LT away to getting to the next tier. Sure it won't be a KC or Buffalo, but no shame right now in being in a tier below that while KP develops.

Besides, they could easily move Moore inside.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

We all have our own beliefs. You do you.

Beliefs should be rooted in facts, but I realize that cognitive dissonance is a thing

My thought is they see him as the jet sweep/slot/wide receiver screen guy. I think he can certainly carve out a place if he shows he can make plays. The offense desperately needs a guy who can turn a small play into a big play.

Yea I don't see Austin as being a #1 or #2 guy. He will likely be the 3rd/slot/sweep person. Sims performed fine enough in that role, but you assume Austin can be an improvement?

 

[Gurglesons]

Beliefs should be rooted in facts, but I realize that cognitive dissonance is a thing

I think the facts are out there, have been discussed and are pretty much proven in the case of why people might be happy to root for the Steelers now that Ben is gone.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I think the facts are out there, have been discussed and are pretty much proven in the case of why people might be happy to root for the Steelers now that Ben is gone.

Facts that are ~15 years old? I want to ensure we're talking about the same stuff.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I'm on the exact same page here. I am mostly floored by all the fans that are still big believers in him as the go to guy.

I look at the big 3. KC, Bills, Cin. You've got Kelce, Diggs, Chase. All monster game breakers. Ya they have other talents but those 3 are key to their game plan. DJ doesn't even attract a fraction of that fear.

He attracts fear and still the only wr that csn get open. The hope is GP our chase

 

[Empoleon8771]

Here's the final grades

Daniels 67.31 (5 penalties, 0 sacks)
Dotson 65.9 (11 penalties, 4 sacks)
Cole 65.7 (1 penalty, 2 sacks)
Moore; 63.61 (10 penalties, 6 sacks)
Okorafor: 61.4 (4 penalties, 3 sacks)

I dunno what an after the bye composite would look like. I do know they visibly looked better.

Any case... they look closely clustered. A lot of all right, nothing elite. You could get upgrades everywhere, although the tackles are clearly calling for it most - although boy do I not like Dotson's 11 penalties.

Getting a LT and either looking at Moore as a swing tackle to compete with Okorafor, or move inside to compete with Dotson, is a no brainer. Fully agreed.

But if our second half schedule was sufficiently soft that the no brainer replacement boosted his PFF grade a lot through that stretch, then I'm not really trusting what it says about anyone.

Which is why I struggle with moving up for a LT. Is it a very obvious need and use of our resources? Yeah. But there's a lot of positions the team really needs to upgrade at and therefore I struggle with moving up. But we need it and it's there, so I struggle with not moving up...

Thanks for providing these. Are those the updated numbers after the Browns game? PFF is showing slightly different numbers,

You're right that they mostly look alright, but I think it's also worth pointing out that their "alright" group was ranked middle of the pack by the end of the year in OL rankings. The most recent weeks are still locked for subscribers, but week 15's rankings had the Steelers at 18th with being 8th in pass blocking. And in the last 4 games after that ranking, the Steelers only gave up 4 sacks (1 to Carolina, 0 to LV, 2 to Baltimore and 1 to Cleveland) and the team averaged over 150 rushing yards per game (156 against Carolina, 106 against LV, 198 against Baltimore and 148 against Cleveland). I bet their ranking to finish the year will be around 13-15.

Get a franchise LT and I think the OL is sitting in a solid spot. You're right that it's a bunch of all right, but I think an OL with 1 franchise guy and 4 alright guys will still yield a top-10 OL. Look at the Packers OL, they have Jenkins (72.3), Tom (68.3), Myers (60.5), Runyan (63.1) and Nijman (63.1) and were ranked #2 in that week 15 list I referenced.

Facts that are ~15 years old? I want to ensure we're talking about the same stuff.

I mean, Ben had a radio show where he would publicly roast his teammates and cause drama.

Dude wasn't exactly a saint of a person when in Pittsburgh. Pickett is super likable, Ben....was a really good QB, and that's the politest way I can say it.

 

[BusinessGoose]

I see all these press releases from other teams firing coaching personnel

And nothing from steelers

Doesn't much matter who or where they draft

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I mean, Ben had a radio show where he would publicly roast his teammates and cause drama.

Dude wasn't exactly a saint of a person when in Pittsburgh. Pickett is super likable, Ben....was a really good QB, and that's the politest way I can say it.

Are you talking about when Ben called AB out for not doing something on his route? Believe it was against Denver?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Are you talking about when Ben called AB out for not doing something on his route? Believe it was against Denver?

Whether or not it was justified to call him out doesn't change the fact that airing grievances on radio about your teammates is superbly unprofessional and causes drama.

 

[Gurglesons]

Facts that are ~15 years old? I want to ensure we're talking about the same stuff.

Sure. Not sure why we have to continue to talk about it. If you don’t understand why people may not root for a team that employees Ben move on. You have your own thoughts and so can others.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't like Canada, but the team went 7-2 in their last 9 to end the year with him. In those 9 games, they averaged about 200 passing yards and 150 rushing yards per game and showed absolutely astronomical improvement with moving the ball and converting on 3rd downs.

There are clearly things that need to improve, especially in the passing game and capitalizing with TDs on these long drives. But I also feel like there were some pretty massive signs of progress during the year, to the point where I think Canada earned another chance for next year.

Going into the off-season, I think they need to do all of these things to take the offense to a contending level:

1. Improve the OL to have a more consistent running game. The offense is carried by the run game and it averaging 150 yards per game down the stretch, they need to get that kind of production consistently going forward. You have a good RB tandem, now you need to beef up your OL and improve their run blocking.
2. Improve the OC play calling to incorporate Pickens in the offense more, especially in the red zone. The failure to convert red zone opportunities into TDs is the biggest reason why this team isn't in the playoffs right now.
3. Have Pickett improve his vision so he's able to make plays on the schemes Canada is calling. I remember he missed a golden opportunity to hit Simms for a walk-in TD, he needs to see those opportunities when they arise.

I think the OC playcalling needs to improve, but I'm mostly indifferent to whether they fire Canada and replace him or just give Canada one more chance to improve. The Pickens thing is obvious to me:

 

[Peat]

Thanks for providing these. Are those the updated numbers after the Browns game? PFF is showing slightly different numbers,

You're right that they mostly look alright, but I think it's also worth pointing out that their "alright" group was ranked middle of the pack by the end of the year in OL rankings. The most recent weeks are still locked for subscribers, but week 15's rankings had the Steelers at 18th with being 8th in pass blocking. And in the last 4 games after that ranking, the Steelers only gave up 4 sacks (1 to Carolina, 0 to LV, 2 to Baltimore and 1 to Cleveland) and the team averaged over 150 rushing yards per game (156 against Carolina, 106 against LV, 198 against Baltimore and 148 against Cleveland). I bet their ranking to finish the year will be around 13-15.

Get a franchise LT and I think the OL is sitting in a solid spot. You're right that it's a bunch of all right, but I think an OL with 1 franchise guy and 4 alright guys will still yield a top-10 OL. Look at the Packers OL, they have Jenkins (72.3), Tom (68.3), Myers (60.5), Runyan (63.1) and Nijman (63.1) and were ranked #2 in that week 15 list I referenced.

Dunno how to date they were. I got them as I typed it, but I don't know at what point PFF updates.

And make no mistake. My point isn't the unit is fine and there's no priority picks there. My point is after the bye we played weak as hell teams and that's distorting things, with the OL being a good example of that. And evaluating stuff based on those 9 games is gonna be hard and I'd rather err on the side of "not as good as they seemed" for pretty much everything.

Also while I'm nitpicking the idea of moving up in the aim of a franchise LT - it feels like there isn't a plug and play guy of that calibre in the draft. Johnson and Jones are raw guys with the potential to be it but who might need a season or two to get there. Skoronski is more polished but might end up guard. That's literally me just parroting what I see written up, and maybe that's still worth going for, but in terms of next season it might be worth tempering expectations. I am spitballing with little idea of my sanity at this point, but maybe that's a situation where you get your OT help in FA and aim to get positional help in the positions the draft is loaded i.e. CB, DL. But then FA is meant to be loaded at DL too.

I dunno. Whatever they do, however they do it, I want to see a new starter at OT and unless they really really believe in Kenyon Green, I think they should invest a later pick towards a G/C prospect, particularly given we're a year away from all of Dotson, Cole, and Daniels being up. When it comes to the OL, that should be a minimum.

 

[Beauner]

I see all these press releases from other teams firing coaching personnel

And nothing from steelers

Doesn't much matter who or where they draft

The teams that are currently firing people are complete dumpster fires. As much as some people think the Steelers fit into that bucket, they don’t

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Whether or not it was justified to call him out doesn't change the fact that airing grievances on radio about your teammates is superbly unprofessional and causes drama.

That didn't come out right. I was asking if that was the specific instance or if there were multiple occasions where Ben did this.
I do agree that is not the time/place to do that.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I don't like Canada, but the team went 7-2 in their last 9 to end the year with him. In those 9 games, they averaged about 200 passing yards and 150 rushing yards per game and showed absolutely astronomical improvement with moving the ball and converting on 3rd downs.

There are clearly things that need to improve, especially in the passing game and capitalizing with TDs on these long drives. But I also feel like there were some pretty massive signs of progress during the year, to the point where I think Canada earned another chance for next year.

Going into the off-season, I think they need to do all of these things to take the offense to a contending level:

1. Improve the OL to have a more consistent running game. The offense is carried by the run game and it averaging 150 yards per game down the stretch, they need to get that kind of production consistently going forward. You have a good RB tandem, now you need to beef up your OL and improve their run blocking.
2. Improve the OC play calling to incorporate Pickens in the offense more, especially in the red zone. The failure to convert red zone opportunities into TDs is the biggest reason why this team isn't in the playoffs right now.
3. Have Pickett improve his vision so he's able to make plays on the schemes Canada is calling. I remember he missed a golden opportunity to hit Simms for a walk-in TD, he needs to see those opportunities when they arise.

I think the OC playcalling needs to improve, but I'm mostly indifferent to whether they fire Canada and replace him or just give Canada one more chance to improve. The Pickens thing is obvious to me:

People pointing to the offensive improvement need to recognize the Quality of Competition. Steelers' schedule at the first half was much more difficult vs the tail end.

So they aren't as bad as they were to start and they probably aren't as good as they were to finish. So take that average and they are still a poor offense in the bottom 1/3 of the league. I'm adamant that improving the Oline (specifically LT) can move them to that middle tier

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I see all these press releases from other teams firing coaching personnel

And nothing from steelers

Doesn't much matter who or where they draft

You probably will not hear anything before Friday. Tomlin always does exit interviews with players before gets to coaching

I see all these press releases from other teams firing coaching personnel

And nothing from steelers

Doesn't much matter who or where they draft

People pointing to the offensive improvement need to recognize the Quality of Competition. Steelers' schedule at the first half was much more difficult vs the tail end.

So they aren't as bad as they were to start and they probably aren't as good as they were to finish. So take that average and they are still a poor offense in the bottom 1/3 of the league. I'm adamant that improving the Oline (specifically LT) can move them to that middle tier

In reality theres 5 elite offenses and a bunch of middle class offenses

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

https://www.lineups.com/nfl-team-rankings

Easy to read charts on where our offense and defense ranks- overall and breakouts for each category with stack rank. Way more than 5 good offenses.

Also, you can rank OFF/DEF of teams we played, like Buddy and Emp said...

Tons of room for OFF improvement in pretty much every category- run, pass, etc.
Defense needs big improvement on Passing TD/Red Zone Pass scheme, etc.

 

[Flying Dego]

He attracts fear and still the only wr that csn get open. The hope is GP our chase

We need to make him the focal point and make DJ take the back seat. We cannot Center our offense around a guy so allergic to big plays.

Our issue though? DJ has been quite vocal on getting his looks. He clearly views himself as an AB prototype. Imagine the turmoil when GP gets the ball more. DJ is gonna be whining. Book it.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

We need to make him the focal point and make DJ take the back seat. We cannot Center our offense around a guy so allergic to big plays.

Our issue though? DJ has been quite vocal on getting his looks. He clearly views himself as an AB prototype. Imagine the turmoil when GP gets the ball more. DJ is gonna be whining. Book it.

All Wr want targets if they take 22 targets from DJ and split them with GP and muth
Could easily see all 3 guys get 100 targets next year and Austin fill the 50 left from Claypool

 

[PensPlz]

The teams that are currently firing people are complete dumpster fires. As much as some people think the Steelers fit into that bucket, they don’t

Steelers haven't won a playoff game in 2,185 days. That's 6 seasons.

Pittsburgh Steelers Playoff History | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Pittsburgh Steelers Playoff History

www.pro-football-reference.com

That's the longest span of time the Steelers have gone without a playoff win since 1972.

By definition this makes the current stretch of Steeler's football the worst era in 50 years.

What excuses are being made to justify this that haven't been overcome time and time again over the last 50 years and lead to playoff wins?

If there aren't drastic changes being made, firings from the top down, then this is the new standard. Being their lowest in 50 years is what they are o-k with. It's what you, the loyal consumer, is o-k with. The Steelers organization no longer prides themselves on the post-season or being the city of champions.... They care about meaningless individual accolades like a mediocre coach without a losing season. Big f***in d.