OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 2022 Handball season has arrived!

[Flying Dego]

I was a big DJ proponent when he was drafted and defended him his first couple yrs, I thought he could be their X and take Brown’s role.

However, I was wrong about the guy. No point in beating around the bush about the negative effect he has on KP and the offense.

He had three drops yesterday and that was actually a positive sadly, because it should have been two drops and a fumble.

AFC is basically an arms race with Cincy, Buf and KC. Add in Jax in the future if Lawrence takes another leap next season.

Sending KP into battle agt those guys with DJ as his top weapon would be like handing him a broken spitball gun.

I'm on the exact same page here. I am mostly floored by all the fans that are still big believers in him as the go to guy.

I look at the big 3. KC, Bills, Cin. You've got Kelce, Diggs, Chase. All monster game breakers. Ya they have other talents but those 3 are key to their game plan. DJ doesn't even attract a fraction of that fear.

 

[Peat]

I know mocks aren't a fantastic guide but fwiw, I've got six mock drafts up (draftwire, bleacher, pff, draftnetwork, si.com, profootballnetwork) and:

Paris Johnson has a range of 8 to 16, with 4 of them placing him at 11-13.

Peter Skoronski has a range of 10 to 18, with 4 of them placing him at 11-13.

We can feel fairly sure at this point the Steelers can't get either of those guys by staying still. There's a considerable degree of uncertainty about getting either if we only move up to 13. If the team wants a first round OT and isn't happy about moving up to 8-10, the question seems to be how you feel about Broderick Jones, albeit two of the mocks have him in the top 10 so who knows how that plays out.

Quentin Johnston has a range of 11th to 17th, with 5 of them putting him at 11th or 12th

Jordan Addison has a range of 8th to 23rd, with 3 putting him at 12th to 16th

Jaxon Smith-Njigba has a range of 15th to 31st, with 4 of them putting him at 20-23rd

So you're probably not getting Johnston without moving up, you might get Addison, and you probably have Smith-Njigba as a target or as an option for moving back into the 1st.


Assuming things play out by consensus, arguably the best hope for the Steelers is to sit tight and hope for a faller with the first pick, trade back into the 1st with pick 32 if the targets are there, and think you get Broderick Jones and Smith-Njigba (or a more developmental WR if he's gone and you just decide to see what's there at 32) at worst but maybe you get a bit lucky and do better. I kinda doubt it though. Everyone will be targeting those positions and they're thin.

Again fwiw, at a quick look it looks like you're pretty much guaranteed to have one of the top tranche of CBs in Porter/Witherspoon/Ringo/Gonzalez/Cam Smith at 17OA and maybe even dropping to 32; also the top ILB at Trenton Simpson (who may drop to 32 but probably not); and for DL, some mocks have Bryan Bresee available at 17OA and some have him going 6OA

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

We are because everyone is focused on outcome based results. Tomlin gets another non-losing season, yet there's a ton of inattention to detail that gets swept under the rug.

The enemy of the great is "good enough" and Tomlin has everyone showering him with praise. But really the same stuff that plagued this team during the Killer B's era and most of MT's career still persists.

But please, don't deep throat Mikey T too hard or you'll damage your tonsils.

Tomlin fans are comical and so desperate like the poster you addressed, they can’t wait to beat their chests about another “winning season” even when they miss the playoffs.

Those of us living in reality see a guy who just posted another single digit win season. He’s now failed to reach double digit wins in 4 of the last 5 years.

He also just extended his playoff winless streak to six years. Which once again is a shameful modern franchise record of futility.

I bet not a single person around here could name the last Steelers coach to hold that woeful record.

I'm on the exact same page here. I am mostly floored by all the fans that are still big believers in him as the go to guy.

I look at the big 3. KC, Bills, Cin. You've got Kelce, Diggs, Chase. All monster game breakers. Ya they have other talents but those 3 are key to their game plan. DJ doesn't even attract a fraction of that fear.

DJ attracts more fear in Steeler fans than opponent’s fans, and that’s not even hyperbole.

 

[Pens1566]

There are four of them. I think at least one of them will be available. If not , then there will one hell of player available.



If they lose Sutton, unless they sign a legitimate replacement eg a Bradberry or Dean, they have to go CB because no way they can go into next season with Wallace and Witherspoon or Maulet or Pierre as the CBs.



What do you mean by value? This draft is very deep in CBs and that is a need and there will be a good one available at 17.
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Just in general, I agree with JTG. Too often people look at mocks and think that one of 30 players won't be available when the Steelers choose 17th. There will be busts and mediocre players chosen above the Steelers. It's way more important to choose the right player than it is to choose a player ranked high on a mock draft board.

There's 3 OT that are worth it (Skoronski, Johnson, Jones). Anything past those is going to be a reach and you can get similar value in 2nd/3rd.

For the CBs maybe Porter Jr/Ringo is there, and maybe worth it, but I don't like it at 17 because I'm a BPA guy. Like you said it's deep, can still get value later.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah I think I agree with the take that the Steelers would have to move their 1st and 2nd to move into a position to definitely get a LT in the draft. A 1st and 3rd puts them in range to get a LT, but it's not a guarantee they'd pull one off at 13 versus 8 or 9.

I think this team needs a LT so badly that I'd definitely pay a 1st and 2nd to make sure I get one of the big name ones in this draft. Even though I think Watt looked pedestrian, the defense was downright dominant after he got back and they only gave up 20 points once in the remaining 9 games. You do need a CB and DL help, but I think that's much less of an issue than Moore at LT.

 

[Peat]

I'm on the exact same page here. I am mostly floored by all the fans that are still big believers in him as the go to guy.

I look at the big 3. KC, Bills, Cin. You've got Kelce, Diggs, Chase. All monster game breakers. Ya they have other talents but those 3 are key to their game plan. DJ doesn't even attract a fraction of that fear.

If the aim is to give Pickett a target on their level - and I sure like it - then I think we've got to be thinking trade. I don't know if there's any top WRs whose team might be ready to move on for whatever reason, but the Claypool trade gives us the ammo needed to make that Hill/Diggs/Brown/Adams level trade fairly painlessly if there is one available. And it's a surer thing than anything in the draft.

Also a scenario where trading Johnson to recoup a pick makes sense for everyone, although I don't know how the salaries shake out there.

 

[xlm34]

I think they should, but I’m just not convinced that the Steelers want to replace Moore. At least not enough to trade up for his replacement.

 

[Peat]

Yeah I think I agree with the take that the Steelers would have to move their 1st and 2nd to move into a position to definitely get a LT in the draft. A 1st and 3rd puts them in range to get a LT, but it's not a guarantee they'd pull one off at 13 versus 8 or 9.

I think this team needs a LT so badly that I'd definitely pay a 1st and 2nd to make sure I get one of the big name ones in this draft. Even though I think Watt looked pedestrian, the defense was downright dominant after he got back and they only gave up 20 points once in the remaining 9 games. You do need a CB and DL help, but I think that's much less of an issue than Moore at LT.

Problem is most of the teams we played after the bye wouldn't score 20 points in an empty field so I dunno how much I trust that. I mean the offensive line looked like a team strength in that period and I think we all know better than to trust that either!

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

OL and CB are my hoped-for priorities. History says that won't happen, but we do have new folks on the decision-making team.

There's a lot of "people think DJ is great and should be the #1" chatter in here and it's BS. As a member of the keep-DJ-around club, I just think the depth at those other positions is worse. Besides, folks are all about Austin III, who is apparently guaranteed to be better than DJ anyway even though he's never played a down of regular-season NFL football. And with DJ being so poor, surely we can draft his replacement in Round 3.

Has the O-line improved? Sure. That misses that there was pretty much nowhere to go but up. CB has some gamers but no one who's really good except Sutton.

That's just my reasoning, juxtaposed against some reasonings I can't get on board with.

I agree ILB and DL are areas of need also, but you only have so many high picks in the draft. Of course, all of this is subject to change based on what happens in the first 16 picks of the draft.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Problem is most of the teams we played after the bye wouldn't score 20 points in an empty field so I dunno how much I trust that. I mean the offensive line looked like a team strength in that period and I think we all know better than to trust that either!

I actually think 4 of the 5 spots on the OL are fine and just desperately needs an upgrade at LT.

I like Daniels and Dotson as guards and I'm fine with Cole at C and Okorafor at RT. Moore at LT is the absolute biggest liability and it's the main spot that's hurting the OL.

This is from way earlier in the year when the team was struggling, but these were their OL grades halfway through the year:

Ranking the Steelers starting offensive line halfway through the season

The Steelers offensive line has been improving in recent weeks.

steelerswire.usatoday.com

 

[Empoleon8771]

 

[Peat]

I actually think 4 of the 5 spots on the OL are fine and just desperately needs an upgrade at LT.

I like Daniels and Dotson as guards and I'm fine with Cole at C and Okorafor at RT. Moore at LT is the absolute biggest liability and it's the main spot that's hurting the OL.

This is from way earlier in the year when the team was struggling, but these were their OL grades halfway through the year:

Ranking the Steelers starting offensive line halfway through the season

The Steelers offensive line has been improving in recent weeks.

steelerswire.usatoday.com

Here's the final grades

Daniels 67.31 (5 penalties, 0 sacks)
Dotson 65.9 (11 penalties, 4 sacks)
Cole 65.7 (1 penalty, 2 sacks)
Moore; 63.61 (10 penalties, 6 sacks)
Okorafor: 61.4 (4 penalties, 3 sacks)

I dunno what an after the bye composite would look like. I do know they visibly looked better.

Any case... they look closely clustered. A lot of all right, nothing elite. You could get upgrades everywhere, although the tackles are clearly calling for it most - although boy do I not like Dotson's 11 penalties.

Getting a LT and either looking at Moore as a swing tackle to compete with Okorafor, or move inside to compete with Dotson, is a no brainer. Fully agreed.

But if our second half schedule was sufficiently soft that the no brainer replacement boosted his PFF grade a lot through that stretch, then I'm not really trusting what it says about anyone.

Which is why I struggle with moving up for a LT. Is it a very obvious need and use of our resources? Yeah. But there's a lot of positions the team really needs to upgrade at and therefore I struggle with moving up. But we need it and it's there, so I struggle with not moving up...

 

[Power Surge]

I would have preferred putting Bylsma on this but Sully is starting to sound like a Tomlin press conference.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

OL and CB are my hoped-for priorities. History says that won't happen, but we do have new folks on the decision-making team.

There's a lot of "people think DJ is great and should be the #1" chatter in here and it's BS. As a member of the keep-DJ-around club, I just think the depth at those other positions is worse. Besides, folks are all about Austin III, who is apparently guaranteed to be better than DJ anyway even though he's never played a down of regular-season NFL football. And with DJ being so poor, surely we can draft his replacement in Round 3.

Has the O-line improved? Sure. That misses that there was pretty much nowhere to go but up. CB has some gamers but no one who's really good except Sutton.

That's just my reasoning, juxtaposed against some reasonings I can't get on board with.

I agree ILB and DL are areas of need also, but you only have so many high picks in the draft. Of course, all of this is subject to change based on what happens in the first 16 picks of the draft.

The Austin 3 stuff is a little bizarre when I literally just brought his name up the other day as a guy to remember could be in the mix next year.

So not sure where anyone was saying he was better than DJ when it seems like most ppl here have forgotten he exists.

If A3 could run fwd and not drop the ball almost every game, that will certainly help in that direction though.

That’s great news.

Was afraid he blew his knee out.

 

[xlm34]

Pretty much a nothing answer from Tomlin about Canada but it leaves at least a tiny sliver of hope that he didn’t commit to him.

Still fully expecting him to be the OC next year though.

 

[MrBrightside]

I think the fact that Tomlin didn't commit to Canada being back is a good sign. But I guess we'll see.

 

[edog37]

The run at the end of the season saved Canada's bacon, I think.

a properly run team would've fired Canada during the bye week, or better yet, never would have hired him in the first place.

Pretty much a nothing answer from Tomlin about Canada but it leaves at least a tiny sliver of hope that he didn’t commit to him.

Still fully expecting him to be the OC next year though.

sad, but probably true.

 

[Peat]

Count me in as a guy who's intrigued as to what Calvin Austin could offer. Gets hard for him to carve anything out if we draft a WR high to go with Pickens and Johnson. Not a reason to not do it, but a little wrinkle to add.

 

[edog37]

Easy to have a more likable team when Ben retires lol

Ben wasn't the problem & never was

 

[Gurglesons]

Ben wasn't the problem & never was

We all have our own beliefs. You do you.

 

[edog37]

We all have our own beliefs. You do you.

Another typical yinzer response. You probably were typing that with your AB jersey on....

 

[Gurglesons]

Another typical yinzer response. You probably were typing that with your AB jersey on....

I’m an Eagles fan

 

[edog37]

I’m an Eagles fan

how shocking...

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Thinking about things since April until now…

I was terrified Tomlin was going to be stupid and take Willis over KP.

It’s the first time I had any emotion on draft night since Roth was taken. I was actually pacing the floor during the commercial before Harris came out.

I thought for sure I was going to have to suffer watching Willis pretend to be a QB when the guy I wanted was right there.

Then Harris announced KP and it was the first time I truly felt hope for this team in years.

It was nice to finally feel that emotional investment once again in my favorite sports team.

Tomlin then made the rough call to play KP, and stuck with him during his struggles because he recognized his growth was the future of this team.

So while I have severe doubts about Tomlin going fwd, I just wanted to give him props for the KP pick and showing his belief in him all season.

This was the first season in years I didn’t think “glad that shits finally over” at the end.

 

[edog37]

I was a big DJ proponent when he was drafted and defended him his first couple yrs, I thought he could be their X and take Brown’s role.

However, I was wrong about the guy. No point in beating around the bush about the negative effect he has on KP and the offense.

He had three drops yesterday and that was actually a positive sadly, because it should have been two drops and a fumble.

AFC is basically an arms race with Cincy, Buf and KC. Add in Jax in the future if Lawrence takes another leap next season.

Sending KP into battle agt those guys with DJ as his top weapon would be like handing him a broken spitball gun.

100%.