OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 2022 Handball season has arrived!

[DanielPlainview]

You're missing my point.
I agree DJ isn't elite, but less than Elite WR's have fetched 1st rounders. Again, that is the MARKET.

If you're unfamiliar with economics, I suggest this book:

Amazon.com

Tommy Maddox and Doug Flutie come to mind for me lol

You're missing my point.
I agree DJ isn't elite, but less than Elite WR's have fetched 1st rounders. Again, that is the MARKET.

If you're unfamiliar with economics, I suggest this book:

Amazon.com

Tommy Maddox and Doug Flutie come to mind for me lol

If you’re unfamiliar with common sense, well there’s nothing to be done for you I’m afraid. There is nothing about the market last year or this year that dictates DJ is worth a first round pick. This is completely wishful thinking

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I don't know if it's the same context but I'm thinking exaples on the other side of the coin when the Steelers gave up on Johnny Unitas

Or Tampa Bay giving up on Vinny Testeverte, Steve Young and Trent Dilfer. All three had success elsewhere.

Or Atlanta giving up Favre.

And all those examples were eons ago. The most recent of those being Dilfer, who is not even in the same class as what you listed.

During that time teams had limited tape of a player. The access was just different. I can pull up college (and sometimes HS highlights) of any backup QB in the league right now. There are no secrets in this league.

Every pass that gets thrown is scrutinized and scrubbed, even in practice. Everyone knows who you are bc the QB is a the most precious resource in the NFL.

 

[Power Surge]

Claypool getting a 2nd I get. Cost controlled 24 yr old that has unique athletic abilities teams covet.

Cost control, good Recievers is what teams can find with their own 1st and 2nd round picks. People act like Claypool and DJ are special when they are actually dime a dozen Recievers.

Chicago already regrets it because at the time of the trade Fields was playing well and they thought they were gonna go on a run.

And all those examples were eons ago. The most recent of those being Dilfer, who is not even in the same class as what you listed.

During that time teams had limited tape of a player. The access was just different. I can pull up college (and sometimes HS highlights) of any backup QB in the league right now. There are no secrets in this league.

Every pass that gets thrown is scrutinized and scrubbed, even in practice. Everyone knows who you are bc the QB is a the most precious resource in the NFL.

I agree on Dilfer not being in the same class but my point is, I'm saying he had a half decent career and had success elsewhere.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

If you’re unfamiliar with common sense, well there’s nothing to be done for you I’m afraid. There is nothing about the market last year or this year that dictates DJ is worth a first round pick. This is completely wishful thinking

Explain how Hollywood Brown fetched a 1st in the offseason? DJ's production is comparable (and in some categories, better)

Marquise Brown Career Stats | NFL.com

www.nfl.com

Diontae Johnson Career Stats | NFL.com

www.nfl.com

So yes if this was this past offseason there's no evidence to suggest he wouldn't garner a 1st.
I guess common sense on your side doesn't include data to support your assertions. Because you have shown no evidence to back your claim.

 

[DanielPlainview]

I’ll never understand the mindset of people who think a single trade dictates future value ad infinitum. That is not how markets work. If you’re an idiot and give a guy too much money for a shitty used car, that doesn’t inflate the market for everyone else

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Unitas was what, like 70 years ago, totally different era. Testaverde and Dilfer were very meh. Young is the only one I can think of that went on to have consistently good/great play.

Doug Williams would be another that won a Super Bowl. Wasn't he a TB guy as well, lol. But he didn't really have a shining career. And I don't count Favre. He didn't really play and show what he was before being traded.

They way I look at it is, a guy that was drafted in the first round and played for multiple seasons for a team and that player showed they were mediocre at best and that team let them go and they became something. Aka Mayfield, who will now be dropped by two teams.

It's Tannehill and that is it in the last 20 years.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I’ll never understand the mindset of people who think a single trade dictates future value ad infinitum. That is not how markets work. If you’re an idiot and give a guy too much money for a shitty used car, that doesn’t inflate the market for everyone else

So you are saying you have no evidence to back up your hypothesis, just a general trope?

 

[Power Surge]

Explain how Hollywood Brown fetched a 1st in the offseason? DJ's production is comparable (and in some categories, better)

Marquise Brown Career Stats | NFL.com

www.nfl.com

Diontae Johnson Career Stats | NFL.com

www.nfl.com

So yes if this was this past offseason there's no evidence to suggest he wouldn't garner a 1st.
I guess common sense on your side doesn't include data to support your assertions. Because you have shown no evidence to back your claim.

This is a poor example if you are trying to prove a point: Brown has roughly the same yardage in 50 percent less games than DJ this year. And a 3 more TDs to boot.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I don't 100% know that DJ will garner a 1st, but we should find out.

I think generally he is a low-end #1 WR and got paid accordingly last offseason. That deal becomes a bargain for a team to trade for him because the Steelers eat the signing bonus.
The issue with Diontae here is he makes huge gaffes (fumbles, drops, running backwards) at the worst times. These are back-breaking issues to this team and the mindset of this offense. I'm betting, however, that some other teams will overlook the timing of his gaffes and focus on the 95% of plays where he's good and often open, as a superlative route-runner.
I could also see us keeping him, though at this point I think he is regarded as a loser within that locker room. He needs a fresh start.

 

[DanielPlainview]

So you are saying you have no evidence to back up your hypothesis, just a general trope?

I’m explaining how the market doesn’t work. Your malinformed opinion isn’t worth anything here whether or not you play data man or not

Of the teams who may be in the market for someone like DJ, the Giants may be the one dumb enough to overpay but I wouldn’t count on it

This is a poor example if you are trying to prove a point: Brown has roughly the same yardage in 50 percent less games than DJ this year. And a 3 more TDs to boot.

Hollywood also doesn’t have a reputation for dropping passes or failing in the clutch. If a team is giving away their first round pick, they’re certainly going to pass on a guy who doesn’t play up in the big moments

 

[Power Surge]

Unitas was what, like 70 years ago, totally different era. Testaverde and Dilfer were very meh. Young is the only one I can think of that went on to have consistently good/great play.

Doug Williams would be another that won a Super Bowl. Wasn't he a TB guy as well, lol. But he didn't really have a shining career. And I don't count Favre. He didn't really play and show what he was before being traded.

They way I look at it is, a guy that was drafted in the first round and played for multiple seasons for a team and that player showed they were mediocre at best and that team let them go and they became something. Aka Mayfield, who will now be dropped by two teams.

It's Tannehill and that is it in the last 20 years.

Yes Forgot Williams. Took TB to the NFC championship game in 79, then moved.on to the Redskins.

 

[Pengwins]

If our coaches had a brain, that was Tyson A’s last game played. He was dominated

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I’m explaining how the market doesn’t work. Your malinformed opinion isn’t worth anything here whether or not you play data man or not

Of the teams who may be in the market for someone like DJ, the Giants may be the one dumb enough to overpay but I wouldn’t count on it


Hollywood also doesn’t have a reputation for dropping passes or failing in the clutch. If a team is giving away their first round pick, they’re certainly going to pass on a guy who doesn’t play up in the big moments

The giants gave 18 million for Kenny Goliday. DJ doesn’t have a reputation of dropping passes he is targeted so much it seems he drops more but has 4 this year and and 6 last season

I’m explaining how the market doesn’t work. Your malinformed opinion isn’t worth anything here whether or not you play data man or not

Of the teams who may be in the market for someone like DJ, the Giants may be the one dumb enough to overpay but I wouldn’t count on it


Hollywood also doesn’t have a reputation for dropping passes or failing in the clutch. If a team is giving away their first round pick, they’re certainly going to pass on a guy who doesn’t play up in the big moments

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I don't know if it's the same context but I'm thinking exaples on the other side of the coin when the Steelers gave up on Johnny Unitas

Or Tampa Bay giving up on Vinny Testeverte, Steve Young and Trent Dilfer. All three had success elsewhere.

Or Atlanta giving up Favre.

Steelers gave up on Len Dawson to.

But I’m talking about the last 20 yrs or so.

Teams never give up on a guy now a days unless they are sure he’s going to bust out.

Just way too hard to find good QBs, so teams will stick with them unless they see red flags.

 

[DanielPlainview]

The giants gave 18 million for Kenny Goliday. DJ doesn’t have a reputation of dropping passes he is targeted so much it seems he drops more but has 4 this year and and 6 last season

Blup blup blup

 

[ChaosAgent]

If our coaches had a brain, that was Tyson A’s last game played. He was dominated

We talk a lot about LT, CB etc. but I really hope we address DL soon. Leal hasn't played at all this year and Heyward is no spring chicken (tbh, he's another trade candidate in the offseason). Adams is fine but not an impact guy.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I’m explaining how the market doesn’t work. Your malinformed opinion isn’t worth anything here whether or not you play data man or not

Of the teams who may be in the market for someone like DJ, the Giants may be the one dumb enough to overpay but I wouldn’t count on it


Hollywood also doesn’t have a reputation for dropping passes or failing in the clutch. If a team is giving away their first round pick, they’re certainly going to pass on a guy who doesn’t play up in the big moments

That's the funny thing about opinions- they don't mean anything unless you have data. You don't have evidence, and that's getting to you, so you're dropping ad hominems. It's cool, keep on dropping nonsense if it makes you feel important!

Btw- here are the league leaders in dropped passes. DJ doesn't even "lead" his team in that department

NFL

Find all the latest NFL news, live coverage, videos, highlights, stats, predictions, and results right here on NBC Sports.

scores.nbcsports.com

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

We talk a lot about LT, CB etc. but I really hope we address DL soon. Leal hasn't played at all this year and Heyward is no spring chicken (tbh, he's another trade candidate in the offseason). Adams is fine but not an impact guy.

Yea big concerns along the Dline for sure: Leal and Loudermilk have made minimal contributions this year.

I still rank needs (whether FA or draft as follows):

LT - getting an elite LT can suddenly make this line above average
EDGE - Watt gets nicked a ton, Reed has been invisible and Highsmith's contract status is in limbo
DL - see above
CB - Levi Wallace is solid, but the other corner is a weakness
WR - unsure what Austin III brings next year.

 

[xlm34]

We talk a lot about LT, CB etc. but I really hope we address DL soon. Leal hasn't played at all this year and Heyward is no spring chicken (tbh, he's another trade candidate in the offseason). Adams is fine but not an impact guy.

I wouldn’t mind seeing them bring back Hargrave in free agency and re-signing Ogunjobi. That would buy a little bit of time to rebuild the group.

 

[Power Surge]

That's the funny thing about opinions- they don't mean anything unless you have data. You don't have evidence, and that's getting to you, so you're dropping ad hominems. It's cool, keep on dropping nonsense if it makes you feel important!

Btw- here are the league leaders in dropped passes. DJ doesn't even "lead" his team in that department

NFL

Find all the latest NFL news, live coverage, videos, highlights, stats, predictions, and results right here on NBC Sports.

scores.nbcsports.com

I wonder how many #2 receivers of the other 31 teams have 0 TD catches this year.

Granted that we have to look at circumstance like Canada and a Rookie QB but still....

Who is paying a first for that?

 

[xlm34]

Yea big concerns along the Dline for sure: Leal and Loudermilk have made minimal contributions this year.

I still rank needs (whether FA or draft as follows):

LT - getting an elite LT can suddenly make this line above average
EDGE - Watt gets nicked a ton, Reed has been invisible and Highsmith's contract status is in limbo
DL - see above
CB - Levi Wallace is solid, but the other corner is a weakness
WR - unsure what Austin III brings next year.

If I had to put them in tiers right now:

Tier 1 would be LT and CB.
Tier 2 would be the rest of the positions you mentioned. I’d probably add LG because I’m not totally sold on Dotson.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I wonder how many #2 receivers of the other 31 teams have 0 TD catches this year.

Granted that we have to look at circumstance like Canada and a Rookie QB but still....

Who is paying a first for that?

Well since we are still the only team in the league that’s hasn’t gotten 2 td passes in one game from any of our QBs teams will over look that.
Teams will say we have a Qb and a system he will flourish

If I had to put them in tiers right now:

Tier 1 would be LT and CB.
Tier 2 would be the rest of the positions you mentioned. I’d probably add LG because I’m not totally sold on Dotson.

People are going to be upset because they are not moving off Moore

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I wouldn’t mind seeing them bring back Hargrave in free agency and re-signing Ogunjobi. That would buy a little bit of time to rebuild the group.

I think it’s one or the other? I think they will have 8 million Aav for a dl I like Payne in DC he is only 25. Larry will hope for a 3/40 deal he got from Chicago before his injury hargrave isn’t great against the run and going to be 30

 

[Goalie_Bob]

I like Moore for being a 4th round pick. I don't think they get enough credit for how well he has performed for where he was picked. But I think at best he is a solid backup at Tackle. I also wonder if he could be moved to LG.

And I like Ogunjobi, he has done well here. If they had a stoudt guy in the middle they would look better as a line. And I believe they will take a DL with one of the 2nds.

 

[Power Surge]

Off topic. Meant to mention it Thursday, Patriots should go back to their original logo. I think it looks sharper now today than their new one.

Even if they stick with the Blue Jersey instead of the Red which went with that logo years ago, that would look sharp. Blue Jersey, White helmet, that logo.