OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 2022 Handball season has arrived!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
34,436
19,483
Obviously a lot of Steelers talk occurs when the family is together for Thanksgiving, and we all kind of came to the conclusion that Kenny will get a good 3-4 years to figure things out, and if he can't do it, he will turn into a Charlie Batch type backup here.

I wasn't a huge Pickett fan at Pitt. I wasn't for drafting Pickett in the 1st round. I can't pin this on him. As I have said before, Pickett isn't Rodgers or Mahomes or Burrow. He's not going to be a guy who makes the guys around him necessarily look better. He's a guy who needs to be surrounded by talent, and if he is, he can work at a high level in that offense.

The Steelers should look to flip Johnson at the draft because he and Pickett are just not on the same page.

Ya there’s no doubt he’s getting a minimum of 3 years to prove himself.

Even if he can’t figure it out and they have more shitty seasons, it’s not like the last five years were any better watching them either miss the playoffs or get blown out each time.

Lots of people bring up the “he needs to be surrounded with a good team to win” argument around me, but it just seems like common sense.

Mahomes could carry his team on his shoulders with a bad team, but ultimately it would catch up to the Chiefs come playoff time.

I think it goes without saying that the Steelers need to build a good team WITH good coaching, no matter what KP becomes.

Even if he hits that second tier of QBs and becomes like a top ten guy, they aren’t winning anything if the team lacks talent and has the same incompetent coaching as it does now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Night Shift

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
34,436
19,483
Matt Canada is absolute trash, no doubt. But Kenny has been disappointing overall. The whole Pitt connection makes so many people overlook his poor play. Maybe he improves by the end of the season, but I don’t know how anyone feels great about him as our starter as of today. Now, you guys are basically saying you don’t need a good quarterback to win. We are lowering the bar for Kenny already.

They have to trade Johnson - there’s absolutely nothing there between he and Pickett.

We aren’t saying that you don’t need a good QB to win, how the hell did you get that take?

The point is you don’t need an elite franchise QB, because there are only 3-4 of them in the league.

Those teams don’t always win though. Rams just won with a good QB, one who was mostly a playoff bust up until last year.

Stafford was never considered an elite franchise guy.

Rams just built a really good team, plugged in Stafford, and went on a magical run.

Guys like Mahomes, Allen and Hebert had to watch the SB at home.
 

Pens x

Registered User
Oct 8, 2016
16,352
8,121
Do teams really give mediocre QBs 3-4 years to develop these days?

If a qb is still crap after two years, it seems most teams try someone else, but didn’t Miami try to upgrade him this summer? Hurts is in year three, and a second rounder. So maybe there is hope?
 
Last edited:

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
34,436
19,483
Do teams really give mediocre QBs 3-4 years to develop these days?

If a qb is still crap after two years, it seems most teams try someone else, but didn’t Miami try to upgrade him this summer? Hurts is in year three, and a second rounder. So maybe there is hope?

You don’t know who is a mediocre QB in his rookie year or a franchise guy like Allen would be playing for another team.

Hurts as well. Double that on Tua.

How did you think this was going to go exactly?

Did you honestly think a rookie QB and Canada together would have any type of success?

It’s basic common sense what was going to transpire.

This wasn’t Roth falling into an ideal situation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Night Shift

JTG

Registered User
Sep 30, 2007
50,861
5,986
Ya there’s no doubt he’s getting a minimum of 3 years to prove himself.

Even if he can’t figure it out and they have more shitty seasons, it’s not like the last five years were any better watching them either miss the playoffs or get blown out each time.

Lots of people bring up the “he needs to be surrounded with a good team to win” argument around me, but it just seems like common sense.

Mahomes could carry his team on his shoulders with a bad team, but ultimately it would catch up to the Chiefs come playoff time.

I think it goes without saying that the Steelers need to build a good team WITH good coaching, no matter what KP becomes.

Even if he hits that second tier of QBs and becomes like a top ten guy, they aren’t winning anything if the team lacks talent and has the same incompetent coaching as it does now.

I think Pickett either makes it here as the starter or he sticks around as a backup. They are going to give him a really fair shot to do well, and if he can't do it here, I think they then compensate him enough to give up being a starter and he's basically the modern day Charlie Batch. By time they give up on him, he's going to be damn near 30. The thing with Pickett is starting QB or not, he's great for the team. He's a leader. No matter how bad he is as a starter, I can't take away the intangibles he has from him.

And when Mahomes got to KC, I remember them having a good OL, Hunt, Hill, Kelce. Not taking anything away from him...he's is sort of what I'm talking about. His presence took them to the next level.

Do teams really give mediocre QBs 3-4 years to develop these days?

If a qb is still crap after two years, it seems most teams try someone else, but didn’t Miami try to upgrade him this summer? Hurts is in year three, and a second rounder. So maybe there is hope?
Bad teams don't.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
34,436
19,483
I think Pickett either makes it here as the starter or he sticks around as a backup. They are going to give him a really fair shot to do well, and if he can't do it here, I think they then compensate him enough to give up being a starter and he's basically the modern day Charlie Batch. By time they give up on him, he's going to be damn near 30. The thing with Pickett is starting QB or not, he's great for the team. He's a leader. No matter how bad he is as a starter, I can't take away the intangibles he has from him.

And when Mahomes got to KC, I remember them having a good OL, Hunt, Hill, Kelce. Not taking anything away from him...he's is sort of what I'm talking about. His presence took them to the next level.


Bad teams don't.

Pretty much agree,

On Mahomes, he not only had a lot of talent around him, most importantly he had Reid so that was massive.

He's a freak, but all timers usually end up in a great spot that maximizes their talent.

KP's basically going to become a good QB or fail based on the next OC they bring in and the talent they can accumulate next couple of years.

He's never going to be in that top tier and I'm ok with that when the reality is those guys are almost impossible to find. The freak franchise guys don't always win the SB every year. Sometimes just a good QB comes in and does it - so that's all we can hope for.

As I said after the draft, just a playoff win at this point would be an upgrade... sadly.
 
Last edited:

Pens x

Registered User
Oct 8, 2016
16,352
8,121
I think Pickett either makes it here as the starter or he sticks around as a backup. They are going to give him a really fair shot to do well, and if he can't do it here, I think they then compensate him enough to give up being a starter and he's basically the modern day Charlie Batch. By time they give up on him, he's going to be damn near 30. The thing with Pickett is starting QB or not, he's great for the team. He's a leader. No matter how bad he is as a starter, I can't take away the intangibles he has from him.
Toews 2.0
 

TimmyD

Registered User
Nov 11, 2013
4,982
3,001
Greensburg, PA
Do teams really give mediocre QBs 3-4 years to develop these days?

If a qb is still crap after two years, it seems most teams try someone else, but didn’t Miami try to upgrade him this summer? Hurts is in year three, and a second rounder. So maybe there is hope?
Miami tried to replace Tua…but it was with Watson and Brady… so they only tried to replace him because they saw guys who were clearly on another tier then him available. Most teams will give guys time unless an absolute stud/elite talent is available
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
85,386
85,871
Redmond, WA
I don't want what I said to be taken that way - that's not what I'm saying. There are QBs that are part of the machine and there are QBs that make the machine run. Kenny is a QB that isn't going to will a team to victory like Ben. We all knew that when he was drafted. He's not skilled in that way. Though I hate the comparison, he's very much like a Kirk Cousins in that way...good team around him, the team is awesome. Poor team around him, the team is average.

The things that are going wrong for Kenny right now are not upsetting me very much because I expect it to happen from a rookie QB. When they put him in the game, I mentally prepared for him to do things like he's doing. He just got dropped in the fire and he's figuring it out. We were spoiled.

Ben didn’t even really “will” the team to victory either. He was pretty massively carried by a terrific team around him in both of his Super Bowl wins.

I agree with you on Pickett though. He’s going to be Tannehill 2.0 if he pans out, which isn’t a bad thing.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
85,386
85,871
Redmond, WA
Miami tried to replace Tua…but it was with Watson and Brady… so they only tried to replace him because they saw guys who were clearly on another tier then him available. Most teams will give guys time unless an absolute stud/elite talent is available

And in their case, they’ve benefitted from being patient with Tua. He’s not this amazing franchise QB, but he’s an extremely efficient passer who is having a terrific year this year. He’s 7-1 on the year with a 71% completion rating and leading the league in QBR. He’s a great example of how being patient with a question mark at QB can pay off.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Night Shift

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
34,436
19,483
Ben didn’t even really “will” the team to victory either. He was pretty massively carried by a terrific team around him in both of his Super Bowl wins.

I agree with you on Pickett though. He’s going to be Tannehill 2.0 if he pans out, which isn’t a bad thing.

Roth was only carried in his first SB, but balled out agt Cincy, Indy and Den… including saving Bettis’ ass in Indy, a massive play in Steeler lore that he never gets credit for.

Second run he saved the D with an all-time legendary drive.

As far as Tannenhill, he and KP are kind of different players, but I wouldn’t be happy with KP being a guy who can’t get it done in the playoffs like Tannehill.

That’s ultimately going to decide if KP is a bust or not. He will be a guy that can win enough in regular season and make fantasy geeks happy I suspect, but will he be clutch in the playoffs?

That’s the one thing I am concerned about, but we shall see.
 

Jaded-Fan

Registered User
Mar 18, 2004
53,013
14,852
Pittsburgh
My real concern is whether we really learned anything from Pickett being played most of this year. The year is winding down and I have not seen enough to judge much more than what I thought going into the year.

It is pretty much a given that Canada is a joke who is bringing the entire offense down and making everyone harder to judge.

Najee Harris does not blow as a running back. Not as badly as he has seemed to this year. But when your playbook has two pages in it and every team knows that the plays will 95 % of the time be within a couple of yards of scrimmage and move the entire team into the box it becomes a challenge for him and the entire team.

The same with Pickett. When most of your throws over five yards are on third and long the percentages will be challenging. That does not excuse the worst interception rate in the league completely. I get that rookies need to grow, teams who were patient with quarterbacks who had bad beginnings get paid off at times. But even when challenged you still want to see more than we have seen so far. It was more of a mixed bag than I had hoped.

Which leaves me completely baffled and feeling like the year to watch him was almost a waste. And wondering whether they should nab a top quarterback if they are there. I am no closer to an answer now than I was before KP's first game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Peat

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
34,436
19,483
My real concern is whether we really learned anything from Pickett being played most of this year. The year is winding down and I have not seen enough to judge much more than what I thought going into the year.

It is pretty much a given that Canada is a joke who is bringing the entire offense down and making everyone harder to judge.

Najee Harris does not blow as a running back. Not as badly as he has seemed to this year. But when your playbook has two pages in it and every team knows that the plays will 95 % of the time be within a couple of yards of scrimmage and move the entire team into the box it becomes a challenge for him and the entire team.

The same with Pickett. When most of your throws over five yards are on third and long the percentages will be challenging. That does not excuse the worst interception rate in the league completely. I get that rookies need to grow, teams who were patient with quarterbacks who had bad beginnings get paid off at times. But even when challenged you still want to see more than we have seen so far. It was more of a mixed bag than I had hoped.

Which leaves me completely baffled and feeling like the year to watch him was almost a waste. And wondering whether they should nab a top quarterback if they are there. I am no closer to an answer now than I was before KP's first game.

I think most people around here haven’t watched a rookie QB develop game to game since prob Roth.

Allen was a huge mixed bag, for instance.

KP started out playing hero ball and realized that wasn’t going to work.

Now when you watch the all22 you see him making smart decisions to throw the ball away.

That’s something I wanted to see and am pleased with.

I wanted to see him start hitting those downfield throws and he has had four on the money throws the last two weeks. Unfortunately Pickens dropped a perfectly placed dart, but KP did everything right on that.

He also had two perfect throws dropped by Muth and Harris that hurt them.

He’s building chemistry with his top two guys, which is important for now and next season.

He needs to anticipate better before his guys come out of their cuts, but that takes chemistry and a lot of experience to develop. That is another reason why this isn’t a wasted season at all.

I’d like to see the worm burners stop… he had 4-5 of them and those are strictly on KP.

Also put together and entire good game and not one half.

I’d also like to see him deliver a clutch drive at the end of the game and show he can make big plays in big moments and stay cool.

He should be able to show us some clutch drives by the end of the season and a little better anticipation on their intermediate timing routes, and I’ll be pleased.

Assuming he doesn’t resort back to hero ball.
 

bigdaddyk88

Registered User
Apr 21, 2019
4,526
885

Factorial

Registered User
Oct 7, 2019
1,968
1,730
But few seem to understand the gravity of the Steelers’ situation.

:laugh:

You'd think that he was discussing the implications of the Russia/Ukraine war spreading or something else of significance and not a football team's state of affairs.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
34,436
19,483
:laugh:

You'd think that he was discussing the implications of the Russia/Ukraine war spreading or something else of significance and not a football team's state of affairs.

Madden’s biggest shtick is to rile up Steeler fans and get them angry. Does it all the time and it’s pretty funny.

He knows hockey pretty well, but it’s hard not to laugh when he tries to talk beyond the basics of football.

It’a still fun to see how mad they get at him though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Night Shift

Night Shift

Registered User
Nov 3, 2014
10,033
4,672
Florida
Madden’s biggest shtick is to rile up Steeler fans and get them angry. Does it all the time and it’s pretty funny.

He knows hockey pretty well, but it’s hard not to laugh when he tries to talk beyond the basics of football.

It’a still fun to see how mad they get at him though.

They're fuming now that he criticized their precious (Tomlin).
 

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
34,436
19,483
They're fuming now that he criticized their precious (Tomlin).

He goes back and forth on the Tomlin stuff. Whichever way the wind is blowing that day I suppose and he feels will rile up the Yinzers.

If he says Tomlin needs fired one day it’s the greatest idea, if someone calls in the next week and says the same thing he will spew insults and call the person stupid.

Like I said, it’s kind of funny, but I don’t take him seriously with football.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Night Shift

JTG

Registered User
Sep 30, 2007
50,861
5,986
Pretty much agree,

On Mahomes, he not only had a lot of talent around him, most importantly he had Reid so that was massive.

He's a freak, but all timers usually end up in a great spot that maximizes their talent.

KP's basically going to become a good QB or fail based on the next OC they bring in and the talent they can accumulate next couple of years.

He's never going to be in that top tier and I'm ok with that when the reality is those guys are almost impossible to find. The freak franchise guys don't always win the SB every year. Sometimes just a good QB comes in and does it - so that's all we can hope for.

As I said after the draft, just a playoff win at this point would be an upgrade... sadly.

I think Pickett has what it takes to win a Super Bowl. I wasn't a fan of him at Pitt early on, but I think if they can be patient with him, he will be a really good starter.

Ben didn’t even really “will” the team to victory either. He was pretty massively carried by a terrific team around him in both of his Super Bowl wins.

I agree with you on Pickett though. He’s going to be Tannehill 2.0 if he pans out, which isn’t a bad thing.

He could though. How many late drives did he lead the team down the field on?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Night Shift

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
34,436
19,483
I think Pickett has what it takes to win a Super Bowl. I wasn't a fan of him at Pitt early on, but I think if they can be patient with him, he will be a really good starter.



He could though. How many late drives did he lead the team down the field on?

If developed properly I agree, but unfortunately the elephant in the room is Tomlin and his ego.

I give Tomlin credit for drafting KP and now sticking with him as he so far seems to understand KP’s development is what matters this season.

However, whatever KP’s potential is, he has zero chance of ever winning a SB if Rooney doesn’t put his foot down this off-season.

Tomlin needs to be surrounded by bright minds on offense and defense, coordinators who are not only legit, but they can also do their own thing without his meddling.

The new OC, whom Rooney must hand pick, will be the most important hire for this org since Cowher retired.

If Rooney f***s it up, KP is very likely going to be just a miserable footnote in Steelers lore.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Night Shift

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
34,436
19,483
Sadly agree with Madden here




Now I know Warner is only a HOF QB, and that pales in comparison to Madden, who I heard once played dek hockey, but Warner sees improvement as well.

Also, be warned if you play a drinking game every time Warner says “bad play design”, you will likely end up in an alcoholic coma.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Night Shift

bigdaddyk88

Registered User
Apr 21, 2019
4,526
885


Now I know Warner is only a HOF QB, and that pales in comparison to Madden, who I heard once played dek hockey, but Warner sees improvement as well.

Also, be warned if you play a drinking game every time Warner says “bad play design”, you will likely end up in an alcoholic coma.

He also said many or most Oc still call the same plays. He just has his preference from his playing days


Now I know Warner is only a HOF QB, and that pales in comparison to Madden, who I heard once played dek hockey, but Warner sees improvement as well.

Also, be warned if you play a drinking game every time Warner says “bad play design”, you will likely end up in an alcoholic coma.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad