OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 2022 Handball season has arrived!

[xlm34]

Fun question and I'm too lazy to view actually W/L....but what's the Steelers record against the Raiders in the Tomlin era? I think it's atrocious and the 1 game I'm most confident we lose this year.


With what Fields is doing the man is gonna get paid A LOT. He's pretty close to a lock to be a Lamar type QB.

I mean the dude set the rushing record last week and followed it up with. 147 yd rushing game and 2 TD passes. Sign me up for that.

Fields is turning into a hell of a player and he’s doing it with a pretty bad supporting cast. Their line is pretty garbage, their receivers are whatever, and their defense is atrocious right now.

I’m definitely rooting for him to succeed.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Cousins has always been in that “good but not good enough” category plus I think he had a rep going back to college for being a douche, which probably didnt help public and media perception. Jefferson helps him quite a bit. He had one of those Kellen Winslow dragging himself off the field type days yesterday. Plus getting rid of Mike Zimmer who was stuck in the Woody Hayes era of football also probably helps. Hope they continue to do well.

Ya, maybe he doesn’t have that ‘it’ factor of being a ‘special player that makes special plays on special days’, but he could go on a Stafford run this season it looks like.

 

[LOGiK]

I missed the game.
Are they doing better or what.
I saw the win and wondered if I can still watch for the laughs...

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I missed the game.
Are they doing better or what.
I saw the win and wondered if I can still watch for the laughs...

I was in Michigan for a hockey tournament and decided to watch the replay when I got home.

If I wasn’t interested in seeing a rookie QB’s development, and didn’t have the luxury of ffwd, I’d say it was a waste of time.

Nothing about the game will make you do anything but shrug and think “guess this was a positive step, maybe.. I guess”.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Ya that’s not really true. KP has a four year deal and they can always go the Was/Cousins route and go on a year to year basis with his contract.

He won’t even be able to renegotiate his rookie deal until the end of year three unless you know about some new rule I’m unaware of.

And look at some of the bigger QB names this year:

Allen didn’t emerge until year three.

Tua and Hurts are only emerging now in their third years.

Yeah and that’s how you over pay for the QB position like Dak and the Cowboys or Minnesota and Cousins
Maholmes and Allen extension was after year 3 Tua and hurts are getting there’s this off season it keeps you from having to cough up 200 million on a Murray Lamar

 

[JTG]

It probably helped that they got Jonathan Taylor back yesterday and Matt Ryan didn’t shit the bed. But that Raiders team needs an enema too.

Adding Taylor to any team would give them a shot in the arm. They have an outstanding line and runningback. Ryan should be throwing 20 times a game when they absolutely have to.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yeah and that’s how you over pay for the QB position like Dak and the Cowboys or Minnesota and Cousins
Maholmes and Allen extension was after year 3 Tua and hurts are getting there’s this off season it keeps you from having to cough up 200 million on a Murray Lamar

I don't get your logic.

It takes about three years to know what you have in a QB.

KP can't, by NFL rules, redo his deal until after year three.

Where is the disconnection here?

So if KP isn't on his way to becoming a good starter in this league by then, they have plenty of options to move on and not commit big, long term money to him.

Ravens picked up LJ's fifth year option and he's making what? 23m or so for this season? Thats peanuts for a good starting QB.

Long story short, not sure why you think any long term money will be committed to KP after next season.

By the time they have to commit any type of significant money to KP, they will have a pretty good idea of who he is after the 2024 season.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I don't get your logic.

It takes about three years to know what you have in a QB.

KP can't, by NFL rules, redo his deal until after year three.

Where is the disconnection here?

So if KP isn't on his way to becoming a good starter in this league by then, they have plenty of options to move on and not commit big, long term money to him.

Ravens picked up LJ's fifth year option and he's making what? 23m or so for this season? Thats peanuts for a good starting QB.

Long story short, not sure why you think any long term money will be committed to KP after next season.

By the time they have to commit any type of significant money to KP, they will have a pretty good idea of who he is after the 2024 season.

It’s not about long term money next year. It’s about knowing that you have your guy and want to pay him by the end of year 2 so you can start negotiating for year 3.
Lamar will get the tag at 35 million and negotiating on up

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Kenny's contract is a given for the first 5 years. It can't be renegotiated for year 3.

And Lamar is easily worth 35 mil. What is your point?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It’s not about long term money next year. It’s about knowing that you have your guy and want to pay him by the end of year 2 so you can start negotiating for year 3.
Lamar will get the tag at 35 million and negotiating on up

I still don’t get your logic.

Mahomes signed his big deal July 2020, seven months after his third season.

Allen, was signed 8 months after his third season to his mega deal.

Again, where is the concern that there isn’t enough time to negotiate?

If you are still unsure and he’s kind of good, but gets the Kirk Cousins award after year three, you simply don’t negotiate a long term deal and go on a year to year basis to remove risk.

That’s exactly what Wash did with Cousins and kept him for six years without ever handing him a long term mega deal.

LJ is now in year five and making QB peanuts with a fifth year option and no long term deal yet.

Keeping LJ even on a one year 40m deal next season is a bargain with no long term risk… it’s again the Wash/Cousins route.

They can take LJ into year six without ever fully committing to him.

How are the Ravens risking anything really?

So yet again I gotta ask, where is this concern about teams only being able to evaluate a QB for two years?

 

[Night Shift]

Ya, maybe he doesn’t have that ‘it’ factor of being a ‘special player that makes special plays on special days’, but he could go on a Stafford run this season it looks like.

If Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer can win a SB, so can Cousins. At least Cousins has weapons.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I still don’t get your logic.

Mahomes signed his big deal July 2020, seven months after his third season.

Allen, was signed 8 months after his third season to his mega deal.

Again, where is the concern that there isn’t enough time to negotiate?

If you are still unsure and he’s kind of good, but gets the Kirk Cousins award after year three, you simply don’t negotiate a long term deal and go on a year to year basis to remove risk.

That’s exactly what Wash did with Cousins and kept him for six years without ever handing him a long term mega deal.

LJ is now in year five and making QB peanuts with a fifth year option and no long term deal yet.

Keeping LJ even on a one year 40m deal next season is a bargain with no long term risk… it’s again the Wash/Cousins route.

They can take LJ into year six without ever fully committing to him.

How are the Ravens risking anything really?

So yet again I gotta ask, where is this concern about teams only being able to evaluate a QB for two years?

If you take the most pro ready Qb in the draft whose 24 you don’t have 3 years to find out if he is the guy.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The impatience Steelers fans have with Pickett is just dumb to me. I don't know whether Pickett truly is "the guy", but rushing to replace him after a year or two is just going to result in the Steelers throwing another QB in the same mess that Pickett is in right now.

Arizona drafted Rosen 10th overall in 2018, rushed him into a starter's role and threw him aside for a 5th round pick after 1 year to draft Murray. The Cardinals are 25-29-1 with Murray as starter, so what did that even accomplish? It turns out Rosen doesn't have it, but the Cardinals are still a comically flawed team that is miles away from contention.

You are substantially better off building your team for 3 years and then deciding to move on from Pickett than trying to cut the cord with him before your team is even remotely competent enough to support a rookie QB.

 

[Flying Dego]

If you take the most pro ready Qb in the draft whose 24 you don’t have 3 years to find out if he is the guy.

I've read some funny takes but this is a high bar. Kudos

 

[bigdaddyk88]

The impatience Steelers fans have with Pickett is just dumb to me. I don't know whether Pickett truly is "the guy", but rushing to replace him after a year or two is just going to result in the Steelers throwing another QB in the same mess that Pickett is in right now.

Arizona drafted Rosen 10th overall in 2018, rushed him into a starter's role and threw him aside for a 5th round pick after 1 year to draft Murray. The Cardinals are 25-29-1 with Murray as starter, so what did that even accomplish? It turns out Rosen doesn't have it, but the Cardinals are still a comically flawed team that is miles away from contention.

You are substantially better off building your team for 3 years and then deciding to move on from Pickett than trying to cut the cord with him before your team is even remotely competent enough to support a rookie QB.

Except Pickett is 24 already Josh just turned 25. He is not even proven to better than Mason whose numbers were better in college and in 2019. Carson turned 24 his rookie year you are seeing any improvement since he took over

The impatience Steelers fans have with Pickett is just dumb to me. I don't know whether Pickett truly is "the guy", but rushing to replace him after a year or two is just going to result in the Steelers throwing another QB in the same mess that Pickett is in right now.

Arizona drafted Rosen 10th overall in 2018, rushed him into a starter's role and threw him aside for a 5th round pick after 1 year to draft Murray. The Cardinals are 25-29-1 with Murray as starter, so what did that even accomplish? It turns out Rosen doesn't have it, but the Cardinals are still a comically flawed team that is miles away from contention.

You are substantially better off building your team for 3 years and then deciding to move on from Pickett than trying to cut the cord with him before your team is even remotely competent enough to support a rookie QB.

I've read some funny takes but this is a high bar. Kudos

Why should they give him 3 years when he is worse than Rudolph and Duck in 2019

 

[xlm34]

The impatience Steelers fans have with Pickett is just dumb to me. I don't know whether Pickett truly is "the guy", but rushing to replace him after a year or two is just going to result in the Steelers throwing another QB in the same mess that Pickett is in right now.

Arizona drafted Rosen 10th overall in 2018, rushed him into a starter's role and threw him aside for a 5th round pick after 1 year to draft Murray. The Cardinals are 25-29-1 with Murray as starter, so what did that even accomplish? It turns out Rosen doesn't have it, but the Cardinals are still a comically flawed team that is miles away from contention.

You are substantially better off building your team for 3 years and then deciding to move on from Pickett than trying to cut the cord with him before your team is even remotely competent enough to support a rookie QB.

If there’s one thing sports fans are known for its patience. Plus Pickett should be qualifying for AARP any day now. Or something.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Except Pickett is 24 already Josh just turned 25. He is not even proven to better than Mason whose numbers were better in college and in 2019. Carson turned 24 his rookie year you are seeing any improvement since he took over

That has literally no relevance to what I posted.

Could Pickett not be it? Yeah, of course. Is it smart to immediately draft a replacement QB and hope that the replacement QB can suddenly work with a broken supporting cast? Absolutely not.

 

[Pens1566]

The impatience Steelers fans have with Pickett is just dumb to me. I don't know whether Pickett truly is "the guy", but rushing to replace him after a year or two is just going to result in the Steelers throwing another QB in the same mess that Pickett is in right now.

Arizona drafted Rosen 10th overall in 2018, rushed him into a starter's role and threw him aside for a 5th round pick after 1 year to draft Murray. The Cardinals are 25-29-1 with Murray as starter, so what did that even accomplish? It turns out Rosen doesn't have it, but the Cardinals are still a comically flawed team that is miles away from contention.

You are substantially better off building your team for 3 years and then deciding to move on from Pickett than trying to cut the cord with him before your team is even remotely competent enough to support a rookie QB.

The difference being that KP will be ~28 if they wait for 3 years. They should have a short fuse with him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The difference being that KP will be ~28 if they wait for 3 years. They should have a short fuse with him.

I don't see what Pickett's age has anything to do with what I said. I'm saying they shouldn't look elsewhere for a Pickett replacement in the short term because they need to build their team to support a new rookie QB. This is irrelevant of whether Pickett is "the guy" or not, it's saying that rushing to replace Pickett with another rookie who will almost definitely not be able to carry a very flawed team is a mistake.

Not only that, but why are we acting like 28 is old for QBs? I'm not even going to bring up guys like Brady as proof that QBs can play long, but even Pickett's pro comparables have played well into their 30s. Guys like Cousins (34), Smith (at his best from age 29-33), and Tannehill (34) are/were playing good starting caliber football well into their 30s.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

If you take the most pro ready Qb in the draft whose 24 you don’t have 3 years to find out if he is the guy.

Does he have some disease that will kill him at 26?

Was that in his scouting report or where did you hear about this devastating condition?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The difference being that KP will be ~28 if they wait for 3 years. They should have a short fuse with him.

I don’t see how him being 23 or 24 matters here.

If he blows, he’s a bad 27 year old QB heading into his fourth season and you move on.

If he doesn’t blow, he’s a good 27 year old Qb heading into his fourth season and you keep him.

That gives you another 9 full seasons before he hits 35, which is when QBs used to be considered old, even though it’s around 37-39 now.

Not seeing how this extra year makes any difference - people are f***ing weird man.

Someone tell Rodgers his career doesn’t count because he didn’t start a single game until he was 25!

Don’t even get me started on Staubach and Steve Young…

 

[Pens1566]

I don't see what Pickett's age has anything to do with what I said. I'm saying they shouldn't look elsewhere for a Pickett replacement in the short term because they need to build their team to support a new rookie QB. This is irrelevant of whether Pickett is "the guy" or not, it's saying that rushing to replace Pickett with another rookie who will almost definitely not be able to carry a very flawed team is a mistake.

Not only that, but why are we acting like 28 is old for QBs? I'm not even going to bring up guys like Brady as proof that QBs can play long, but even Pickett's pro comparables have played well into their 30s. Guys like Cousins (34), Smith (at his best from age 29-33), and Tannehill (34) are/were playing good starting caliber football well into their 30s.

1) Yes, they have other spots they can/should focus on as this is is a deeply flawed roster (another reason they shouldn't have taken the "most ready" QB in a terrible draft).

2) And it's not that he'd be "old", it's that if he hasn't developed any in 3 years he's probably not going to get any better. Holding up 3 questionable examples of career long mediocrity isn't exactly what I'd hope for out of a 1st round QB. Especially considering point #1.

 

[Empoleon8771]

1) Yes, they have other spots they can/should focus on as this is is a deeply flawed roster (another reason they shouldn't have taken the "most ready" QB in a terrible draft).

2) And it's not that he'd be "old", it's that if he hasn't developed any in 3 years he's probably not going to get any better. Holding up 3 questionable examples of career long mediocrity isn't exactly what I'd hope for out of a 1st round QB. Especially considering point #1.

But it's what you get a huge amount of the time when you're drafting a QB even in the 1st round, and it was the upside Pickett was always projected to have. Smith was taken #1 overall in 2005 and Tannehill was taken #8 overall in 2012.

If he hasn't developed at all in 3 years, yeah it's fine to move on from him. But keeping him for 3 years is much more about having a strong supporting cast than giving Pickett 3 years to show what he can do. Going through a rotating cast of young QBs because the new guy doesn't immediately impress is the exact thing the Browns did from like 2010-2018, when they drafted 6 QBs with picks in rounds 1-3 (McCoy in R3, Weeden in R1, Manziel in R1, Kessler in R3, Kizer in R2 and Mayfield in R1)

 

[Night Shift]

Someone tell Rodgers his career doesn’t count because he didn’t start a single game until he was 25!

I was just going to say that! Rodgers rode the Pine for a few years till Favre was done.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Does he have some disease that will kill him at 26?

Was that in his scouting report or where did you hear about this devastating condition?

Yeah it’s called maxed out most pro ready Qb who had one good season as a super senior