The Paul Maurice Pitchfork Thread (MOD Warning Post #1)

[Dr Beinfest]

Out:
Huberdeau
Duclair
Marchment
Tippett/Giroux
Hornqvist

In:
Tkachuk
White
Cousins
E. Staal
Smith

Despite tkachuk’s contributions, that seems like a fairly large difference on offense and Marc staal for Weegar is a pretty big difference in our top-4 D.

Half the offense are 4th line quality: smith, staal, Lomberg, cousins, white (and Lundell until he wakes up). We had 3 killer lines last year and a pretty damn good 4th too. We have like 1.5 good lines right now

I don’t care for Maurice, but I also don’t think he should be getting 95% of the blame. Adin hill had a 0.950 save % to bob’s like 0.906, the breakaways, barkov and Ekblad, the guys have to take responsibility too

Ok so the purpose of my post was to simplify things a bit. It’s disingenuous to include Giroux in this conversation. Florida was already a first place team with Tippett. It’s also disingenuous to say Hornqvist is a deduction this season. The team was garbage through Hornqvist’s 22 games. It’s also disingenuous to mention Smith. He’s been here for 3 games. These players have nothing to do with roster turnover that might cause a first place team to become a lottery team.

You can’t say “despite Tkachuck’s contributions” - if he’s lateral, he’s lateral. We gave up a 100 point guy, we got a 100 point guy. You can criticize his two way game if you want. You can suggest he is less flexible than huberdeu if you want. You can make virtually any argument you want about how Tkachuck-Huberdeau was not a lateral move and it hurt the Panthers and I’m willing to listen. But just saying “he’s here and even though he’s fine they’re worse” doesn’t work add up to why they’re worse.

But you’re going back to the point I am sticking with. Lundell needs to “wake up” as you say. Barkov owns blame. Ekblad owns blame. Bob owns the blame. This is like a politician being elected and then blaming all of his subordinates for his failed administration.

This doesn’t even have to be about Maurice being a bad coach. I think he is, but let’s ignore that for now. Maybe this is all because chemistry was ruined and the strip club bois were so dominant becuase they were best friends (this makes the case for “you should have kept Yandle even though he sucks”). Even if Maurice owned no blame, then this scenario falls on Zito. It’s so flipping hard to buy into any notion that each individual part is coincidentally failing at the same time independently. That’s just not how an engineered system works.

 

[FrolikFan67]

Ok so the purpose of my post was to simplify things a bit. It’s disingenuous to include Giroux in this conversation. Florida was already a first place team with Tippett. It’s also disingenuous to say Hornqvist is a deduction this season. The team was garbage through Hornqvist’s 22 games. It’s also disingenuous to mention Smith. He’s been here for 3 games. These players have nothing to do with roster turnover that might cause a first place team to become a lottery team.

You can’t say “despite Tkachuck’s contributions” - if he’s lateral, he’s lateral. We gave up a 100 point guy, we got a 100 point guy. You can criticize his two way game if you want. You can suggest he is less flexible than huberdeu if you want. You can make virtually any argument you want about how Tkachuck-Huberdeau was not a lateral move and it hurt the Panthers and I’m willing to listen. But just saying “he’s here and even though he’s fine they’re worse” doesn’t work add up to why they’re worse.

But you’re going back to the point I am sticking with. Lundell needs to “wake up” as you say. Barkov owns blame. Ekblad owns blame. Bob owns the blame. This is like a politician being elected and then blaming all of his subordinates for his failed administration.

This doesn’t even have to be about Maurice being a bad coach. I think he is, but let’s ignore that for now. Maybe this is all because chemistry was ruined and the strip club bois were so dominant becuase they were best friends (this makes the case for “you should have kept Yandle even though he sucks”). Even if Maurice owned no blame, then this scenario falls on Zito. It’s so flipping hard to buy into any notion that each individual part is coincidentally failing at the same time independently. That’s just not how an engineered system works.

Whether it’s smith or Dalpe or hepo or the list goes on. He’s irrelevant, the point was Hornqvist was the 12th guy last year this year it’s one of those guys.

Yes we were still in first before giroux so fine ignore him and let’s just go with Tippett then.

I’m a huge proponent of the tkachuk trade. I’ll take him any day over Huberdeau. That swap is the least of our worries. The other third of the offense turn over is the issue.

I’m not saying we’re losing because of Barkov and Ekblad not playing up to par. My point is we’re not a great team as is, certainly not the same team as last years, we’re just even worse when the guys we really are relying on aren’t delivering. It’s just a compounded issue

 

[Dr Beinfest]

Whether it’s smith or Dalpe or hepo or the list goes on. He’s irrelevant, the point was Hornqvist was the 12th guy last year this year it’s one of those guys.

Yes we were still in first before giroux so fine ignore him and let’s just go with Tippett then.

I’m a huge proponent of the tkachuk trade. I’ll take him any day over Huberdeau. That swap is the least of our worries. The other third of the offense turn over is the issue.

I’m not saying we’re losing because of Barkov and Ekblad not playing up to par. My point is we’re not a great team as is, certainly not the same team as last years, we’re just even worse when the guys we really are relying on aren’t delivering. It’s just a compounded issue

Well I think we’ve come to an agreement in some sense about the roster. I’m definitely with you that there was a serious drop off. This year’s roster shouldn’t sniff close to a president’s trophy. But it also shouldn’t be out of the playoffs… well, at least not being on the outside looking in relying upon other teams to lose to catch up. This team is so similar to our team 2-3 years ago. It should look better offensively (in this NHL), and it should be an utter shock if it loses enough to be outside the playoffs looking in.

Idk if you remember the “oh brother…” feeling right before the pandemic where this team was in a landslide and only made the fake playoff round in. That team required a landslide just to bring it to where it finished just barely outside the “real” playoffs. This current team hasn’t had a landslide and is pretty far away from that team, and that’s kinda sad.

 

[Vilam]

Ya imagine finally getting a team past the first round for the first time in 25 years. Get that guy outta here. No chance he could learn from it like every other good coach in nhl history. Absolutely nonsensical

All he did was maintain Q's system. When that stopped working, he had zero solutions. Not bad solutions, zero solutions. The guy offered nothing.

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

I think Bruno wasn't really ready to be an NHL head coach. I suspect that during his exit interview, he didn't present a plan that made management confident that he was ready for the job. It honestly seemed to me like he lost the handle on the room during the playoffs, especially during that Tampa series, and there had to be concern about that.

You also have to remember that Bruno went from being an assistant coach, and a guy who was apparently tight with the players, to the head cheese. That can be a really hard step to take within the same room. You're redefining your role to guys who have already seen you intimately in a different one. It's an old truth that a leader who is close and friendly with his subordinates can't just distance himself from them with ease. It's much easier for an aloof leader to become more personable.

With all of this said, it's clear that Maurice has lost the handle on the room, and is also just a bad coach running bad special teams and sucking the creativity out of the skaters. All of the concerns that the Panthers had about Brunette apply to Paul Maurice, except for the lack of experience part.

But here, I think Brunette's lack of experience is actually very appealing when compared against Paul Maurice. Paul Maurice has a massive resume, the most experience of anyone that could have been hired, and yet it's mostly pretty negative. Because he is a bad coach. With Brunette, we would have had the upside that he was learning on the job, acquiring experience, and becoming better.

Paul Maurice is a finished product, and the product sucks.

 

[iam76]

Well that's not our fault.

Sounds like another strike against Zito.

this exactly. we are fans and can disagree. this is not black and white. Although Bobby's and my opinion differ. he reminded us that our original take could backfire like it has. if I could I would go back. I wouldn't have traded for Chucky. I would have signed our boys. then navigated the cap mess. but I am not gm.

At the end of the day we all just want to win. sudden negative change is hard when you get a taste of winning.

 

[vendetta]

All he did was maintain Q's system. When that stopped working, he had zero solutions. Not bad solutions, zero solutions. The guy offered nothing.

This is an irrelevant argument. He lost one series. And wasn’t given a chance to adjust. Everyone wants to say didn’t adjust but most have no clue what they’re talking about and wouldn’t be able to explain anything about a system if their life depended on it. It’s an echo chamber stemmed out of anger and irrationalities. Every coach gets their system from somewhere. Barkov completely withered. The team tightened up in playoffs and it’s clear as day. Sorry but I’m not gonna take a 4 game sample against a 2 time defending champ where the play was almost dead even outside of pp, when in the bigger sample the team won a playoff round and a presidents trophy and had basically most successful season in franchise history. And then completely write that coach off as if he had no chance to improve or no business coming back? That’s honestly just pathetic drivel stemmed from anger of losing in playoffs.

 

[Vilam]

This is an irrelevant argument. He lost one series. And wasn’t given a chance to adjust. Everyone wants to say didn’t adjust but most have no clue what they’re talking about and wouldn’t be able to explain anything about a system if their life depended on it. It’s an echo chamber stemmed out of anger and irrationalities. Every coach gets their system from somewhere. Barkov completely withered. The team tightened up in playoffs and it’s clear as day. Sorry but I’m not gonna take a 4 game sample against a 2 time defending champ where the play was almost dead even outside of pp, when in the bigger sample the team won a playoff round and a presidents trophy and had basically most successful season in franchise history. And then completely write that coach off as if he had no chance to improve or no business coming back? That’s honestly just pathetic drivel stemmed from anger of losing in playoffs.

You wouldn't have even seen that four game sample had Verhaeghe not played out of his mind in round 1.. They were solidly out coached and ill prepared there as well, and were well on their way to losing that series.

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

You wouldn't have even seen that four game sample had Verhaeghe not played out if his mind in round 1.. They were solidly out coached and ill prepared there as well, and were well on their way to losing that series.

This is also true. The team really did not look good in the playoffs. Washington was beat up and then lost Tom Wilson immediately, by far the weakest team in that playoff field.

The special teams were so bad it's beyond belief.

 

[Felidae]

Ya imagine finally getting a team past the first round for the first time in 25 years. Get that guy outta here. No chance he could learn from it like every other good coach in nhl history. Absolutely nonsensical

The thing is he actually acknowledged his mistakes after the Tampa Bay Loss in a post-game presser or interview. Was it way too late? Of course, but at the very least he seemed like he could have learned from them as a very fresh headcoach.

I don't remember 100% supporting bringing him back just because I wasn't sure at the time if we were the right team for him to use as a learning experience but I wasn't completely opposed to it either.

That being said, I would rather have an inexperienced head coach than one that hasn't accomplished much at all (putting it midly in Maurice's case tbh) in their long career and likely stuck in their ways. Not saying coaches of any experience level can't change, just less likely with the longer tenured ones.

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

It's very fair to say that PoMo is stuck in his ways. If there was ever a game to give Marc Staal the night off and see what the new call-up can do, it was last night against a bad Vancouver team after Staal had been utterly putrid in the previous game. Staal was so bad in the previous game that even the Panthers beat reporters asked about how bad he was.

Perfect opportunity to use his age as an excuse and give him a 'night off' for 'maintenance.' The fact that Fitzgerald didn't get a sniff in that situation is a good indication that Paul Maurice is stubborn to the point of uselessness and isn't ever going to change.

 

[pantherbot]

It's very fair to say that PoMo is stuck in his ways. If there was ever a game to give Marc Staal the night off and see what the new call-up can do, it was last night against a bad Vancouver team after Staal had been utterly putrid in the previous game. Staal was so bad in the previous game that even the Panthers beat reporters asked about how bad he was.

Perfect opportunity to use his age as an excuse and give him a 'night off' for 'maintenance.' The fact that Fitzgerald didn't get a sniff in that situation is a good indication that Paul Maurice is stubborn to the point of uselessness and isn't ever going to change.

The thing I don't get is that M. Staal is actually serviceable when fresh. He was actually not bad to start the year and could work well as a 6/7 dman. But if he's playing middle pair minutes night in and night out...he isn't going to be effective for long. It's like, yeah it would be "unfair" to put in Fitzon his off side (although I think Montour could switch to accommodate), but it's also "unfair" to ask Staal to play like this every night.

Maurice is so weird because you can see early in the season, the team actually played ok and had some good structure. It's not like he's completely incompetent. But then the bad personnel decisions continue and the team just isn't responding to him at all.

Again, I think this roster has a whole bunch of issues and don't think the coach is the only reason for this shitty season, probably equal blame to go all around, but it's a lot easier to replace Maurice.

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

Completely agree. Staal is sinking fast, he's worse every night. How is it that you can talk about managing the ice time for Hornqvist, Ekblad, Barkov, etc.... but not for the Staal brothers, who are at the very end of their careers?

And yeah, he lost the room. Guys checked out. When the camera pans over to the bench, Tkachuk and Bennett look pissed off, Barkov is on another planet, and Sam Reinhart looks like he's daydreaming about a hole in one.

Last time I saw a bench that looked like that, TOM ROWE was the coach.

 

[Cats2TheCup]

Someone somewhere on these boards said when Maurice was coaching the Jets, he never saw him talking to any of the players. Now I cannot unsee this. He just stands there while we collapse and doesn’t talk anyone. Doesn’t inspire any players. Is he an NPC?

 

[StrangeVision]

It's very fair to say that PoMo is stuck in his ways. If there was ever a game to give Marc Staal the night off and see what the new call-up can do, it was last night against a bad Vancouver team after Staal had been utterly putrid in the previous game. Staal was so bad in the previous game that even the Panthers beat reporters asked about how bad he was.

Perfect opportunity to use his age as an excuse and give him a 'night off' for 'maintenance.' The fact that Fitzgerald didn't get a sniff in that situation is a good indication that Paul Maurice is stubborn to the point of uselessness and isn't ever going to change.

The problem is PoMo doesn't recognize that there is a problem. He's blind to his own deficiencies and he likely thinks his way of doing things is in fact the most prudent way. He's good at knowing the mechanics of hockey in general (and expressing his knowledge verbally), but he's bad at applying his knowledge and managing players effectively. He won't change because he likely isn't capable of doing so, he just doesn't have that ability or potential.

I would really like to know what the process was for hiring him, it just seems like they did no actual due diligence. Anyone who takes a cursory glance at his career and see these things, it's not difficult, it's right out there in the open.

 

[Cats2TheCup]

Is it really surprising that a coach with a long history of losing would have his team playing in a way that is conducive to losing? I just don't see the big revelation here, this is Occam's razor 101 stuff.

That story he told about how he was watching the Cats in the offseason and was thinking how much potential this team had. Was he just plotting their destruction the entire time?

Watching Barkov and the boys dump the puck in just to lose possession over and over again is making me think his thoughts are like, “oh yah that guy Barkov, he should not have the puck on his stick. That’s a playoff winning hockey recipe.”

 

[StrangeVision]

That story he told about how he was watching the Cats in the offseason and was thinking how much potential this team had. Was he just plotting their destruction the entire time?

Watching Barkov and the boys dump the puck in just to lose possession over and over again is making me think his thoughts are like, “oh yah that guy Barkov, he should not have the puck on his stick. That’s a playoff winning hockey recipe.”

I can see it now, a small dark room lit only by a dingy fireplace, PoMo sits hunched in his wingback chair, fingers furiously tapping against each other as he watches us flame out in the playoffs, planning the destruction of our team.

 

[austropanther]

I can see it now, a small dark room lit only by a dingy fireplace, PoMo sits hunched in his wingback chair, fingers furiously tapping against each other as he watches us flame out in the playoffs, planning the destruction of our team.

Almost. Petting a cat on his lap and already telling it that it will be able to turn real Panthers into house cats soon, followed by an evil laughter

 

[Michael Morbid]

Is this real???

 

[Mogo]

Out:
Huberdeau
Duclair
Marchment
Tippett/Giroux
Hornqvist

In:
Tkachuk
White
Cousins
E. Staal
Smith

Despite tkachuk’s contributions, that seems like a fairly large difference on offense and Marc staal for Weegar is a pretty big difference in our top-4 D.

Half the offense are 4th line quality: smith, staal, Lomberg, cousins, white (and Lundell until he wakes up). We had 3 killer lines last year and a pretty damn good 4th too. We have like 1.5 good lines right now

I don’t care for Maurice, but I also don’t think he should be getting 95% of the blame. Adin hill had a 0.950 save % to bob’s like 0.906, the breakaways, barkov and Ekblad, the guys have to take responsibility too

Missed Acciari. Sure was injured a lot but i'd take him over our 4th liners. You could also add Vatrano as he was only dealt because we were so deep on forward depth

 

[vendetta]

Is this real???

I’m guessing gudas is dealt soon

 

[BigZ65]

Is this real???

Jets fan checking in....Maurice has a bad habit of letting guys rot in the press box. One of the worst cases here as a 7D was Paul Postma. Had him in the press box for like 30 games straight, finally someone gets dinged and he gets tossed in to play a game in Tampa, plays like 23 minutes cause another D goes down and Postma gets injured late in the game and is out for the season. I'm sure conditioning and the fact he hadn't played a game in 3 months had nothing to do with it...

He's also hypersensitive on the LHD vs RHD thing. Will not play a guy on his off-side unless he's a vet. Of course we draft a guy like Heinola who's a lefty but always plays RHD his whole life.

 

[BabyBennettov]

Completely agree. Staal is sinking fast, he's worse every night. How is it that you can talk about managing the ice time for Hornqvist, Ekblad, Barkov, etc.... but not for the Staal brothers, who are at the very end of their careers?

And yeah, he lost the room. Guys checked out. When the camera pans over to the bench, Tkachuk and Bennett look pissed off, Barkov is on another planet, and Sam Reinhart looks like he's daydreaming about a hole in one.

Last time I saw a bench that looked like that, TOM ROWE was the coach.

You ain’t watching this team or this bench…

Just in the last week, our captain has praised the coach’s systems like they were the favorites in his career, and how he liked playing in that system.

Tkachuk also said a couple of weeks ago how Maurice is the best coach he has had and the best motivator in his career, that also find ways to keep it fun while being serious.

Once again in those threads, a whole lot of hyperboles from fans who don’t really watch and just go by the easy narrative.

« Oh ! Everybody says it’s blue, so I’ll say it’s blue and even bluer while throwing shit on the wall and see if it sticks ! »

Nothing personal WFTC, you just ended up being the one with the comment I liked the least and thought was so untrue !

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

They've been better the last couple of nights, but for the entire month of December and the first week of January they looked completely checked out. The bench looked like a funeral party.

The PK has looked better also, and I credit the coach for adjusting. They look much more active and aggressive, excellent change. That needs to be kept up, rather than discarded as a bad experiment because Toronto's great PP got a couple of power play goals on their seven chances.

What remains my #1 concern with Maurice is the bizarre love affair with Marc Staal. M. Staal is clearly in awful shape out there, has no legs, can't keep his head above water, and he's getting important minutes in huge spots. Saw it again vs Toronto, he kept getting put on the ice with under 3 minutes left in a tie game.

I don't like that one bit.

 

[BabyBennettov]

They've been better the last couple of nights, but for the entire month of December and the first week of January they looked completely checked out. The bench looked like a funeral party.

The PK has looked better also, and I credit the coach for adjusting. They look much more active and aggressive, excellent change. That needs to be kept up, rather than discarded as a bad experiment because Toronto's great PP got a couple of power play goals on their seven chances.

What remains my #1 concern with Maurice is the bizarre love affair with Marc Staal. M. Staal is clearly in awful shape out there, has no legs, can't keep his head above water, and he's getting important minutes in huge spots. Saw it again vs Toronto, he kept getting put on the ice with under 3 minutes left in a tie game.

I don't like that one bit.

Being disgusted by his man-crush for M.Staal is one thing, saying the other players have checked out on him is another…

Tkachuk just said a couple of weeks ago that he likes his interactions with Maurice, even in-game, and I remember Paul being in his players ears regularly.

I hate his love affair with the Staals too… Atleast Eric has been good lately after finding his rhythm.

But what do you want him to do with this roster ? Mahura-Gudas has been kind of gold, and there is no point in not having Forsling-Ekblad together… We also have to play Montour a lot, which leave Marc pretty exposed.

But I don’t really see how he could do it differently… I would try Montour on left-side with Fitzgerald that would be the only other option, but then you can mess with Brandon’s explosion… Soooooooo…