The Paul Maurice Pitchfork Thread (MOD Warning Post #1)

[zeroG]

No they purposely do it and u can tell because that’s where the player support is. They keep chipping it up the boards and that’s where they support. It’s 100% the mo and basically was worked in all training camp and emphasized

trying to understand what you're referring to.

first, we're talking about a DZ breakout after getting the puck back. right? I.e., not a controlled breakout where the forecheckers have backed off (on a dump and change for example) and the Dman is behind the net with the puck under no pressure.

in those situations, you usually have your wingers move to the half-wall for basic puck support. the center has the middle and always aims to be moving up ice just beneath the wings to accept a short pass and skate out of the zone. is this the type of quick chips to the middle you are referring to and we saw some of against the avs?

sometimes the Dman (or a winger down low) has a lane to pass right to the center. maybe this is what you mean?

i just don't see how we're in dramatically different support positions. i mean, many teams overload so you may not have a weak-side winger on the wall for support right away but aside from that, i'm struggling to understand how "the mo" is so different.

 

[zeroG]

I would say “fan” (singular) but I guess there could be more here… I’m not saying what you’re blaming “fans” about above.

I can sense that you don’t agree with *my* assessment either, so I guess we’ll just disagree. We’ve both watched and played hockey for a long while so we have different ways of looking at it… this honestly looks like a coaching failure to me. I was for Maurice initially but it isn’t working out.

i just think it hasn't worked out *yet*.

i will try to meet you halfway - maurice has to accept some responsibility. surely he would agree privately that there was something he could've said or done differently in hindsight to help prevent the team from cratering as it has.

ultimately though, the team is not nearly as good as it was last year and, additionally, is trying to find a new identity playing new systems. there was a good chance this wasn't going to be an easy season.

i just refuse to accept that maurice is an idiot who has no clue what he's doing. i don't think he's going to be fired and i think, when the team turns it around, whether this year or next, some fans are going to have to ponder what happened. did he suddenly figure it out? or were there other confounding factors at work? you know where i stand.

 

[KW]

i just think it hasn't worked out *yet*.

i will try to meet you halfway - maurice has to accept some responsibility. surely he would agree privately that there was something he could've said or done differently in hindsight to help prevent the team from cratering as it has.

ultimately though, the team is not nearly as good as it was last year and, additionally, is trying to find a new identity playing new systems. there was a good chance this wasn't going to be an easy season.

i just refuse to accept that maurice is an idiot who has no clue what he's doing. i don't think he's going to be fired and i think, when the team turns it around, whether this year or next, some fans are going to have to ponder what happened. did he suddenly figure it out? or were there other confounding factors at work? you know where i stand.

Ok fair enough, and I’ll meet you half way by saying that I hope you’re right and I’m wrong…

 

[vendetta]

trying to understand what you're referring to.

first, we're talking about a DZ breakout after getting the puck back. right? I.e., not a controlled breakout where the forecheckers have backed off (on a dump and change for example) and the Dman is behind the net with the puck under no pressure.

in those situations, you usually have your wingers move to the half-wall for basic puck support. the center has the middle and always aims to be moving up ice just beneath the wings to accept a short pass and skate out of the zone. is this the type of quick chips to the middle you are referring to and we saw some of against the avs?

sometimes the Dman (or a winger down low) has a lane to pass right to the center. maybe this is what you mean?

i just don't see how we're in dramatically different support positions. i mean, many teams overload so you may not have a weak-side winger on the wall for support right away but aside from that, i'm struggling to understand how "the mo" is so different.

Yes this is what I’m talking about. Instead of support coming from underneath and making a play with speed the support is overtop along the boards stationary. Safer play. But limits neutral zone speed. Too much board play imo for this roster. Maurice stated this in preseason about preseason

 

[Dr Beinfest]

ultimately though, the team is not nearly as good as it was last year

I’m still stuck with this point. How? If we agree Huberdeau and Tkachuck were lateral, and the loss of Weegar was not replaced… then what? Marchment?
Removal of Marchment and Weegar should not make a lottery team out of the best team in the league. It should just make them no longer the best team in the league.

 

[StrangeVision]

Is it really surprising that a coach with a long history of losing would have his team playing in a way that is conducive to losing? I just don't see the big revelation here, this is Occam's razor 101 stuff.

 

[Ghoste]

I’m still stuck with this point. How? If we agree Huberdeau and Tkachuck were lateral, and the loss of Weegar was not replaced… then what? Marchment?
Removal of Marchment and Weegar should not make a lottery team out of the best team in the league. It should just make them no longer the best team in the league.

No Duke factors in also.

-ghoste

 

[Dr Beinfest]

No Duke factors in also.

-ghoste

Sure but it’s not like last season didn’t come with injuries. Marchment missed 30 games. Ekbkad, Lundell, Hornqvist all missed about 20 games. It factors in, sure, but I still want to know if anyone believes that’s enough to take a president’s Trophy team and turn it into a lottery team?

 

[pantherbot]

Sure but it’s not like last season didn’t come with injuries. Marchment missed 30 games. Ekbkad, Lundell, Hornqvist all missed about 20 games. It factors in, sure, but I still want to know if anyone believes that’s enough to take a president’s Trophy team and turn it into a lottery team?

I'm pretty much done defending anything with this team this season, so this isn't me trying to defend anything, but I do want to point out some pretty significant roster changes.

Weegar, Marchment, Duke would be the main ones. Losing Tippet and Vatrano, who are real NHLers for some of the AHLers we're icing. There's also worst goaltending, Ekblad's early-season which means his games this season are worst than last year's because he's playing through injury, Barkov's whatever it is that he's dealing with this season (pneumonia, knee injury, personal issues) that also came in early season, playing with 20 man roster early so we were down one or even two guys like at least 5-6 games.

So again, I'm not excusing what we're seeing, because the effort sucks. Just saying I could see them pointing to all the excuses.

 

[Dr Beinfest]

The only case I’m willing to accept is that Bob has been that much worse.

Where I think that argument falls apart though is we have seen him be this bad. Even then, we were a playoff team.

Consider this my way of saying that no matter what, this team should be a playoff team (and STILL I expect them to make it in, even to be swept).

 

[pantherbot]

The only case I’m willing to accept is that Bob has been that much worse.

Where I think that argument falls apart though is we have seen him be this bad. Even then, we were a playoff team.

Consider this my way of saying that no matter what, this team should be a playoff team (and STILL I expect them to make it in, even to be swept).

Also don't forget our record was a bit inflated by SO/OT wins. Based on regulation wins we were really only 7th in the league. So make those changes to the roster and theoretically we're already back into the middle of the pack before any of the other random shit that happens through a season.

 

[iam76]

time to fire him.. the game has passed him by..

 

[FinlandPanther]

What does this loser do well? Choke leads? YUP. Play boring uninspired hockey? YUP. Are they good offensively? Nope. Defensively? LOL. This guy might be the most under average coach of all time. Gonna be another fun year next year with this f***ing goof too. f*** you Maurice. Go f***ing quit again you dumb f***.

 

[Dr Beinfest]

Also don't forget our record was a bit inflated by SO/OT wins. Based on regulation wins we were really only 7th in the league. So make those changes to the roster and theoretically we're already back into the middle of the pack before any of the other random shit that happens through a season.

Nah man, what?

A win is a win is a win. The better team wins the game. Period. Luck. Is. Not. Real. If you want to make a point about the shootout not really being hockey, fine. But the Panthers were bottom 10 in the league in the shootout last year and took only 3 bonus points. But this argument gets really reductive really fast when you can make the statement “they had the least regulation losses.”

It’s not like the team was this year’s Minnesota Vikings - obvious pretenders, second in the league in wins with a negative score differential. The Panthers were the dominant team, differentially.

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

This team is now well past the point that it's out of playoff contention. I think if they were going to fire him during the season, they would have already pulled the trigger. Hopefully, someone upstairs has a brain capable of basic pattern recognition and doesn't let this shit carry over into next season.

I really don't care what happens from here on out, even if the Panthers have a completely insane turnaround and somehow squeak into the playoffs. Maurice's decision to keep throwing Marc Staal on the ice late in a close game even after he was getting completely stunted on to the tune of two consecutive breakaways is all I will ever need to see.

This guy is a stupid f***ing idiot clown who is utterly incapable of making basic assessments of ongoing situations and responding to them on the fly. I don't care if he's a 'good guy' who 'knows hockey.' If this guy had been leading Easy Company on D-Day, the Germans might still be entrenched in Brecourt Manor firing flak shells down on Normandy Beach.

This season's a wash? Fine, I don't care. Let Zito save face. But this guy's fired first thing in the morning after game 82, or this team is f***ED.

 

[FinlandPanther]

This team is now well past the point that it's out of playoff contention. I think if they were going to fire him during the season, they would have already pulled the trigger. Hopefully, someone upstairs has a brain capable of basic pattern recognition and doesn't let this shit carry over into next season.

I really don't care what happens from here on out, even if the Panthers have a completely insane turnaround and somehow squeak into the playoffs. Maurice's decision to keep throwing Marc Staal on the ice late in a close game even after he was getting completely stunted on to the tune of two consecutive breakaways is all I will ever need to see.

This guy is a stupid f***ing idiot clown who is utterly incapable of making basic assessments of ongoing situations and responding to them on the fly. I don't care if he's a 'good guy' who 'knows hockey.' If this guy had been leading Easy Company on D-Day, the Germans might still be entrenched in Brecourt Manor firing flak shells down on Normandy Beach.

This season's a wash? Fine, I don't care. Let Zito save face. But this guy's fired first thing in the morning after game 82, or this team is f***ED.

I honestly think Zito is like my f***ing god what have I done but his ego isn’t letting him fire him.

 

[scholl]

This team is now well past the point that it's out of playoff contention. I think if they were going to fire him during the season, they would have already pulled the trigger. Hopefully, someone upstairs has a brain capable of basic pattern recognition and doesn't let this shit carry over into next season.

I really don't care what happens from here on out, even if the Panthers have a completely insane turnaround and somehow squeak into the playoffs. Maurice's decision to keep throwing Marc Staal on the ice late in a close game even after he was getting completely stunted on to the tune of two consecutive breakaways is all I will ever need to see.

This guy is a stupid f***ing idiot clown who is utterly incapable of making basic assessments of ongoing situations and responding to them on the fly. I don't care if he's a 'good guy' who 'knows hockey.' If this guy had been leading Easy Company on D-Day, the Germans might still be entrenched in Brecourt Manor firing flak shells down on Normandy Beach.

This season's a wash? Fine, I don't care. Let Zito save face. But this guy's fired first thing in the morning after game 82, or this team is f***ED.

Maybe the whole point is that Zito gets humiliated. He had such high self-confidence that he thought he can make a very good team excellent by random moves. Now owners want to show him that you pay price for your mistakes. When that Chiarot 1st ends up winning the lottery, it'll be statement big time.

 

[letsgrowcactus]

Also don't forget our record was a bit inflated by SO/OT wins. Based on regulation wins we were really only 7th in the league. So make those changes to the roster and theoretically we're already back into the middle of the pack before any of the other random shit that happens through a season.

And if we were on pace for 95ish points, I might accept these excuses. Pre-season, 90 points was my "worst-case scenario prediction" (and I was rather low on Maurice to start with).

We're currently on pace for 80 points. 80 points, and that's with a decent start - we went 10-7-3 in the first 20 games (0.65 point% pace, playing mostly against crappy teams). Since then, we're 9-12-2; that's 0.435 point pace. In the past 23 games, we have 1 (!) win over a team currently in a playoff position (December 21, 4-2 win against NJD when they were on a losing streak, if anyone's interested).
If we continue with the point pace of the past 23 games and not as we started, we will finish the season with 76 points - the worst finish since 2013/14; worse even than the Rowe catastrophe.

We'd need 48 points in 39 games to get to even 90 points. That's 0.615 win% from now on - theoretically, quite achievable, and really not a high bar. If Maurice can't get us to at least that, he has to go, and I don't care how Zito explains it to the owners.

 

[austropanther]

Anybody trying to have a serious conversation about the coaching situation involving PoMo discredits himself. There is just nothing left to be said... except for this: For the love of god, please finally fire this huge sack of sh*t.

 

[BB88]

During Winnipeg days fans were constantly complaining about their core players and how everyone of them should be basically traded.

Now enter Maurice to Florida and the same thing is happening while Winnipeg is 180 from their past view.

I have a tough time believing all the core players from the past just suddenly forgot how to play hockey.
We have years of evidence of high to elite level of play from them.

Said it the day he was hired there were way too many red flags around him.
”But the Jets had a bad roster” yeah right

& the injury excuse is the most pathetic excuse there is for Maurice

 

[Last Rat Standing]

I've been tuned out for most of the season to the point of I didn't even know who the assistant coaches are if PM gets let go. I never heard of any of them with the exception of Ruuto and that's because I know him as a former player. I assume the rest of the staff were assistants or hand picked by PM. Who would even from that staff would even be barely capable in an interim fashion?

 

[Great8Cam]

This team is now well past the point that it's out of playoff contention. I think if they were going to fire him during the season, they would have already pulled the trigger. Hopefully, someone upstairs has a brain capable of basic pattern recognition and doesn't let this shit carry over into next season.

I really don't care what happens from here on out, even if the Panthers have a completely insane turnaround and somehow squeak into the playoffs. Maurice's decision to keep throwing Marc Staal on the ice late in a close game even after he was getting completely stunted on to the tune of two consecutive breakaways is all I will ever need to see.

This guy is a stupid f***ing idiot clown who is utterly incapable of making basic assessments of ongoing situations and responding to them on the fly. I don't care if he's a 'good guy' who 'knows hockey.' If this guy had been leading Easy Company on D-Day, the Germans might still be entrenched in Brecourt Manor firing flak shells down on Normandy Beach.

This season's a wash? Fine, I don't care. Let Zito save face. But this guy's fired first thing in the morning after game 82, or this team is f***ED.

I like the Captain Winters/Band of Brothers reference. However, being a retired Field Artillery Officer in the Army I have to correct you. The Howitzers at Brecourt Manor would have been firing high explosive point detonating shells onto the beach. Not Flak shells. Flak is a term used for exploding anti-aircraft artillery rounds for shooting at planes above. The guns at Brecourt were not 88s. 88 Flak guns were air defense artillery cannon. Flugabwerhkanone also know as Flak.

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

I like the Captain Winters/Band of Brothers reference. However, being a retired Field Artillery Officer in the Army I have to correct you. The Howitzers at Brecourt Manor would have been firing high explosive point detonating shells onto the beach. Not Flak shells. Flak is a term used for exploding anti-aircraft artillery rounds for shooting at planes above. The guns at Brecourt were not 88s. 88 Flak guns were air defense artillery cannon. Flugabwerhkanone also know as Flak.

You're right, they were 105s. My mistake. They did use 88s as field guns quite often, but yeah, not there.

My grandpa was in the Navy, those field guns are all the same to me.

Now, my dad's uncle was in the infantry. Made it through Italy, France and Germany, decorated multiple times, but couldn't make it through his marriage. Oh!

 

[Great8Cam]

You're right, they were 105s. My mistake.

My grandpa was in the Navy, those field guns are all the same to me.

Now, my dad's uncle was in the infantry. Made it through Italy, France and Germany, decorated multiple times, but couldn't make it through his marriage. Oh!

Cheers to your grand father and your dad‘s uncle! There’s a high divorce rate in the combat arms.
I was in the 1st Armored Divison and we had 155 SPs. They would f shit up with HE rounds with point detonating fuses, delayed PD fuses for underground targets and bunker busting, time fuses and VT fuses for air bursts, tank killing copperhead rounds, white phosphorus, and my guns were nuclear and chemical capable.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

I've been tuned out for most of the season to the point of I didn't even know who the assistant coaches are if PM gets let go. I never heard of any of them with the exception of Ruuto and that's because I know him as a former player. I assume the rest of the staff were assistants or hand picked by PM. Who would even from that staff would even be barely capable in an interim fashion?

I mean the season is over, there's absolutely no point firing him now. The concern is that he won't be fired in the off-season. I really believe he'll be back next year.

It's such a tough position because I can't stand him back next year but I can't stand losing and giving Montreal an even better pick.