The Paul Maurice Pitchfork Thread (MOD Warning Post #1)

[WaitingForThatCab]

Someone else mentioned that he heard Barkov has pneumonia. If he does indeed have walking pneumonia, it makes sense in context of him being ill for a while but feeling better and being able to play a game. Sucks, because that could linger for a while.

 

[Panteras]

cassidy was the guy you target. we didnt target

I bet Cassidy would have loved to coach in Florida.

The team was pretty much set and ready to contend for multiple years.

It’s on Zito for taking so long to make the decision.
No one else

As I mentioned before in this thread, we also cannot discount the fact that teams like Vegas got a head start in searching for a coach as they didn’t make the playoffs. I can’t fathom Zito was picking up the phones after finishing the season with the President’s trophy, then after the Caps series he might’ve had some concerns but hey we pulled through for our first round victory in like 25 years.
Then after getting swept by Tampa he must’ve thought ok I really need to consider firing him. By this point I’m sure Cassidy was already talking with Vegas.

Also, one inescapable fact is that Cassidy is getting paid more by Vegas than PoMo is…who knows how much ownership capped Zito on that. Plus Nevada is also tax free state. So monetarily speaking, no brained for Cassidy.

 

[BB88]

As I mentioned before in this thread, we also cannot discount the fact that teams like Vegas got a head start in searching for a coach as they didn’t make the playoffs. I can’t fathom Zito was picking up the phones after finishing the season with the President’s trophy, then after the Caps series he might’ve had some concerns but hey we pulled through for our first round victory in like 25 years.
Then after getting swept by Tampa he must’ve thought ok I really need to consider firing him. By this point I’m sure Cassidy was already talking with Vegas.

Also, one inescapable fact is that Cassidy is getting paid more by Vegas than PoMo is…who knows how much ownership capped Zito on that. Plus Nevada is also tax free state. So monetarily speaking, no brained for Cassidy.

But Boston made the playoffs as well so Cassidy wasn’t made available earlier.

The money question I can’t answer. Don’t know how the owners view that

 

[Panteras]

But Boston made the playoffs as well so Cassidy wasn’t made available earlier.

The money question I can’t answer. Don’t know how the owners view that

That is true about Cassidy. Although they bowed out before us going against Tampa so you could say that there was a slight head start. I say that also trying to get into Zito’s mind at this particular point. Again, I don’t think Zito is thinking about letting Brunnette go yet or that he feels he needs to line up a coach just yet. Maybe just maybe he might’ve talked to some guys but absolutely nothing about even starting any sort of negotiations. Again, by this point Brunnette had finished with a President’s Trophy and gotten us out of the first round for the first time in ages. So I don’t think Zito had the urgency of needing to replace the coach. Heck we lose 4-3 or 4-2 to Tampa with a valiant effort and effective power play and Brunnette might still be here…it’s not after getting swept that the ball starts rolling. Any talk of Zito should’ve started negotiations with someone before then is just hindsight talk

 

[BB88]

That is true about Cassidy. Although they bowed out before us going against Tampa so you could say that there was a slight head start. I say that also trying to get into Zito’s mind at this particular point. Again, I don’t think Zito is thinking about letting Brunnette go yet or that he feels he needs to line up a coach just yet. Maybe just maybe he might’ve talked to some guys but absolutely nothing about even starting any sort of negotiations. Again, by this point Brunnette had finished with a President’s Trophy and gotten us out of the first round for the first time in ages. So I don’t think Zito had the urgency of needing to replace the coach. Heck we lose 4-3 or 4-2 to Tampa with a valiant effort and effective power play and Brunnette might still be here…it’s not after getting swept that the ball starts rolling. Any talk of Zito should’ve started negotiations with someone before then is just hindsight talk

Hiring coaches is on Zito.

He deserves a ton of credit for turning around the Panthers and how they are seen around the league.

Yet it does not mean we can’t call him out for his last 12 months, he’s been close to as bad the last 12 months as he was great the 1st.

I never liked their Maurice hiring and nothing has changed so far.
Underachiever in Winnipeg with a loaded roster and same thing keeps happening in Florida.



& this answers is absolutely pathetic.

A) Florida don’t get the injury excuse here
B) They just lost a 3 goal lead in the 3rd to lose at home
C) They won the Presidenths trophy last year. So good on for Maurice to being able to look ”competitive” in games.

Columbus was missing half their lineup literally and beat Florida. They had a injury excuse.
Boston missed McAvoy, Marchand& Grzelcyk to start the year and were the best team in the league. Toronto is missing half their defense.
Colorado is missing their Captain.

 

[pantherbot]

Hiring coaches is on Zito.

He deserves a ton of credit for turning around the Panthers and how they are seen around the league.

Yet it does not mean we can’t call him out for his last 12 months, he’s been close to as bad the last 12 months as he was great the 1st.

I never liked their Maurice hiring and nothing has changed so far.
Underachiever in Winnipeg with a loaded roster and same thing keeps happening in Florida.



& this answers is absolutely pathetic.

A) Florida don’t get the injury excuse here
B) They just lost a 3 goal lead in the 3rd to lose at home
C) They won the Presidenths trophy last year. So good on for Maurice to being able to look ”competitive” in games.

Columbus was missing half their lineup literally and beat Florida. They had a injury excuse.
Boston missed McAvoy, Marchand& Grzelcyk to start the year and were the best team in the league. Toronto is missing half their defense.
Colorado is missing their Captain.

You're seriously reaching here. Maurice isn't the problem, it's goaltending. I don't know why this discussion is continuing when there is no coach anywhere that is going to win anything with this dogshit goaltending we've been having. Knight's been better than Bob, but he's also been inconsistent. It's like every game Bob plays we're playing with a -1 goal handicap, and this isn't even an exaggeration since Bob's xGSV/60 is -0.77, which is only worse than Peterson who was just waived by the Kings. And Knight is better, but he's young and we get good/bad/good/bad - why did we lose a 3 goal lead to the Blues? Because he was bad in the 3rd, those first two goals sparking the comeback should not have gone in.

There is no coach that's going to overcome that, and especially not with this roster. True that Colorado last year was able to win with shitty goaltending, but they also had one of the most amazingly stacked and talented teams we've seen in the last 20 years along with an easy path to the cup finals.

Florida does have an injury excuse when one of the world's top-10 players is either sick or busy dealing with personal issues, Barkov's clearly not playing up to his standard. We're also without a No.1 defenseman with Ekblad either hurt or playing like he can't skate anymore. Plus we're stuck with a 20-man roster this season which is also not ideal. We've already played like 3-4 games down a man.

Why did we lose to Columbus? Because Bob played like crap and that's not even debatable. Why is Boston still one of the best teams? Because they have a great team and are getting good goaltending - interesting side note, if Cassidy is so amazing, how are the Bruins still able to function well without him? Maybe it's because they actually have a good team? Montgomery may be a good coach, but he's not some god-level coach. Bergeron, Marchand, Pasta, Krejci are better than anything we can ice. Colorado may be missing their captain, but he's not their best player and they have two elite guys in Mack and Makar who are better than Barkov - again, they have two players that are better than Barkov who we have been missing. So yeah, they're going to be fine without Landeskog.

I get that it's the cool thing to dump on Maurice, just like everybody else seems to do because the guy's been around forever and hasn't actually won a cup. I also think he's made some weird personnel choices that I don't like, and people tend to dislike coaches that stick to veteran players. But I also can't pin our recent problems on Maurice and says he's being given a fair evaluation given our bottom-5 goaltending and handicapped roster.

I think winning the President's trophy last season, mainly on the back of OT/3v3 coin flips, has overinflated expectations of this team. We were never as good as last year's regular season record indicated. We were good, but not historic good. This year we have a weaker roster (even when fully healthy), worse goaltending, and some key early-season injuries. Don't see any coach would have made a difference.

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

Hiring coaches is on Zito.

He deserves a ton of credit for turning around the Panthers and how they are seen around the league.

Yet it does not mean we can’t call him out for his last 12 months, he’s been close to as bad the last 12 months as he was great the 1st.

I never liked their Maurice hiring and nothing has changed so far.
Underachiever in Winnipeg with a loaded roster and same thing keeps happening in Florida.



& this answers is absolutely pathetic.

A) Florida don’t get the injury excuse here
B) They just lost a 3 goal lead in the 3rd to lose at home
C) They won the Presidenths trophy last year. So good on for Maurice to being able to look ”competitive” in games.

Columbus was missing half their lineup literally and beat Florida. They had a injury excuse.
Boston missed McAvoy, Marchand& Grzelcyk to start the year and were the best team in the league. Toronto is missing half their defense.
Colorado is missing their Captain.

I didn't see that quote from Maurice. That's brutal. Don't care what happens from here on out, if Paul Maurice seriously believes winning 1/7 games is OK because Barkov was out, he is a bigger loser than I thought.

 

[Panthers Propaganda]

If Maurice's entire strategy is to let Barkov hard carry the entire team into the playoffs I could also coach them team.

 

[pantherbot]

And btw, those complaining about how we're playing so differently vs. last year, there's no way this year's roster would be able to play how we did last year. It's just not built for that.

Weegar, despite his defensive lapses, was great for the transition game. Huby created a lot of offense on the rush because of his passing, think he was one of the better rush finishers last year. Duke's speed was a big part of the rush offense whichever line he was on. Tip and Vatrano are missing too, and they were important for the bottom-6 to keep that tempo up. Then you also had the depth to roll all four lines, so guys can rest and keep the tempo up.

There's no way we were going to keep playing that style this year, it would have been a disaster with this roster.

 

[Panteras]

Hiring coaches is on Zito.

He deserves a ton of credit for turning around the Panthers and how they are seen around the league.

Yet it does not mean we can’t call him out for his last 12 months, he’s been close to as bad the last 12 months as he was great the 1st.

I never liked their Maurice hiring and nothing has changed so far.
Underachiever in Winnipeg with a loaded roster and same thing keeps happening in Florida.



& this answers is absolutely pathetic.

A) Florida don’t get the injury excuse here
B) They just lost a 3 goal lead in the 3rd to lose at home
C) They won the Presidenths trophy last year. So good on for Maurice to being able to look ”competitive” in games.

Columbus was missing half their lineup literally and beat Florida. They had a injury excuse.
Boston missed McAvoy, Marchand& Grzelcyk to start the year and were the best team in the league. Toronto is missing half their defense.
Colorado is missing their Captain.

Okay, that’s cool and all, but don’t see how any of this directly answers what I posted. I understand that Zito hires coaches, yes…and I understand that you hate Maurice, that’s fine. Still doesn’t directly address my comments that assessing the given time frame and events, Zito didn’t have much choices and guys like Cassidy weren’t available.

 

[pantherbot]

I didn't see that quote from Maurice. That's brutal. Don't care what happens from here on out, if Paul Maurice seriously believes winning 1/7 games is OK because Barkov was out, he is a bigger loser than I thought.

People read way too much into quotes and comments from coaches and players. What else you want him to say? Ream out the team and say the goalies have played like shit? Pretty standard commentary from a coach here.

 

[BB88]

You're seriously reaching here. Maurice isn't the problem, it's goaltending. I don't know why this discussion is continuing when there is no coach anywhere that is going to win anything with this dogshit goaltending we've been having. Knight's been better than Bob, but he's also been inconsistent. It's like every game Bob plays we're playing with a -1 goal handicap, and this isn't even an exaggeration since Bob's xGSV/60 is -0.77, which is only worse than Peterson who was just waived by the Kings. And Knight is better, but he's young and we get good/bad/good/bad - why did we lose a 3 goal lead to the Blues? Because he was bad in the 3rd, those first two goals sparking the comeback should not have gone in.

There is no coach that's going to overcome that, and especially not with this roster. True that Colorado last year was able to win with shitty goaltending, but they also had one of the most amazingly stacked and talented teams we've seen in the last 20 years along with an easy path to the cup finals.

Florida does have an injury excuse when one of the world's top-10 players is either sick or busy dealing with personal issues, Barkov's clearly not playing up to his standard. We're also without a No.1 defenseman with Ekblad either hurt or playing like he can't skate anymore. Plus we're stuck with a 20-man roster this season which is also not ideal. We've already played like 3-4 games down a man.

Why did we lose to Columbus? Because Bob played like crap and that's not even debatable. Why is Boston still one of the best teams? Because they have a great team and are getting good goaltending - interesting side note, if Cassidy is so amazing, how are the Bruins still able to function well without him? Maybe it's because they actually have a good team? Montgomery may be a good coach, but he's not some god-level coach. Bergeron, Marchand, Pasta, Krejci are better than anything we can ice. Colorado may be missing their captain, but he's not their best player and they have two elite guys in Mack and Makar who are better than Barkov - again, they have two players that are better than Barkov who we have been missing. So yeah, they're going to be fine without Landeskog.

I get that it's the cool thing to dump on Maurice, just like everybody else seems to do because the guy's been around forever and hasn't actually won a cup. I also think he's made some weird personnel choices that I don't like, and people tend to dislike coaches that stick to veteran players. But I also can't pin our recent problems on Maurice and says he's being given a fair evaluation given our bottom-5 goaltending and handicapped roster.

I think winning the President's trophy last season, mainly on the back of OT/3v3 coin flips, has overinflated expectations of this team. We were never as good as last year's regular season record indicated. We were good, but not historic good. This year we have a weaker roster (even when fully healthy), worse goaltending, and some key early-season injuries. Don't see any coach would have made a difference.

Blaming just the goalies is just weak.
Absolutely they are an issue but they aren’t the only issue.

Goalies aren’t playing Eric Staal 10-18 mins per game.
Goalies aren’t playing Staal with Ekblad.

Goalies aren’t the reason pp is at 19%.

They don’t make the lineup decisions, don’t decide when to take time outs or who to play in special teams, ot and so on.

Look at Winnipeg last year vs now and look at Florida last year and now.
What connects the 2 teams?


Again the goalies play is an absolute issue but Maurice has also done a terrible job this year.
This roster is way too talented to miss but I just don’t see Maurice being the right coach

 

[KW]

What else you want him to say? Ream out the team and say the goalies have played like shit?

That would be a good start

 

[pantherbot]

Blaming just the goalies is just weak.
Absolutely they are an issue but they aren’t the only issue.

Goalies aren’t playing Eric Staal 10-18 mins per game.
Goalies aren’t playing Staal with Ekblad.

Goalies aren’t the reason pp is at 19%.

They don’t make the lineup decisions, don’t decide when to take time outs or who to play in special teams, ot and so on.

Look at Winnipeg last year vs now and look at Florida last year and now.
What connects the 2 teams?


Again the goalies play is an absolute issue but Maurice has also done a terrible job this year.
This roster is way too talented to miss but I just don’t see Maurice being the right coach

Again, you're reaching here.

E. Staal usually only plays 10-12 minutes a game. There was ONE game he played 18 minutes and that's because there was a lot of PK time during that game and he played about 5 of the 8 PK minutes, which resulted in him having more minutes than normal. And he's actually been effective on the PK, with us giving up less goals when Staal is on the ice than any other PK'er.

Our 19% PP has actually trended better after an atrocious start where we were shooting at an unsustainably low percentage. BTW, the league average is 22%, so 19% is pretty much middle of the pack. There's really not much separating ~20% pp% plus/minus luck and bounces. You're just splitting hairs at that point.

Half the Jets wins this season are from the extra time coin flip and Hellebuyck is playing like an elite goalie again. Just like how our OT/SO wins inflated our points totals vs. actual perfornace, same goes for the Jets. All metrics show they are an average team.

I'm not saying Maurice has been amazing, but the amount of hate he gets here is way more than it should be considering the goalie and roster situation. So much nitpicky stuff that makes no sense. And yes goalies have absolutely been the main issue, plus Barkov playing poorly and getting sick/injured, and having no number 1 dman anymore. Focusing on nitpicky things about Maurice is missing out on the actual issues.

That would be a good start

And that does what exactly? When was the last time you saw a coach do that and it actually had any positive effect? Interviews are for the fans, not the players.

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

People read way too much into quotes and comments from coaches and players. What else you want him to say? Ream out the team and say the goalies have played like shit? Pretty standard commentary from a coach here.

From my point of view, he just completely trashed the entire team by directly implying that they can't win a game without Barkov. I don't care for it.

This is where a real leader would shoulder some blame himself, rather than saying his subordinates just suck.

 

[pantherbot]

From my point of view, he just completely trashed the entire team by directly implying that they can't win a game without Barkov. I don't care for it.

This is where a real leader would shoulder some blame himself, rather than saying his subordinates just suck.

just reading way too much into this. the guys know barkov's their best player and the team is lesser with him out, that's a fact. and if this team is so mentally fragile that they're affected by a throwaway comment during some press conference that they probably don't even pay attention to...then this team is doom regardless of who coaches them

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

Totally disagree. People pay attention to stuff, and people particularly pay attention to what their 'leadership' is saying about them to the press. Have known enough pro athletes in various NA sports in my lifetime to be confident in saying that.

 

[pantherbot]

Also for the record, I don't even care for Maurice, or really any coach. I feel like only the really elite coaches like Q can move the needle on a team. It's up to the players to execute and play well. The coaches always get the flak because they go in front of the cameras and microphones after every game, but unless he's an absolutely awful human being and/or bad coach (i.e. Rowe), they aren't going to make much of a difference one way or another. The roster make-up and player execution will matter way way more.

Focusing on Maurice is really missing out on the actual issues with this team, which is that our goalies are playing poorly again, a couple top players aren't playing well anymore (one because of personal issues and the other because of injuries), and we have no cap space.

Totally disagree. People pay attention to stuff, and people particularly pay attention to what their 'leadership' is saying about them to the press. Have known enough pro athletes in various NA sports in my lifetime to be confident in saying that.

All he said is that they've been playing right up there with playoff teams even without barkov. There's nothing controversial in what he said. Nothing about what he said implies the team sucks without barkov.

 

[Dr Beinfest]

You're seriously reaching here.

Leading off with a comment like this is discrediting to anything else you said thereafter.

 

[NewEraGM]

Barkov doesn’t make them go from 1-3-3 to 5-2 or something…He doesn’t turn 1 win into 5 or more so even with Barkov, mayyybe they are 2-2-3 or 3-2-2 at the very most .

It also sends a pretty clear message to rest of team that it’s okay to lose when Barkov is not playing and that the standard is lower.

Don’t think for a second that the players don’t hear that

 

[RogerRoger]

There is one thing I'll give credit to Maurice for. He was not afraid to make Bob the number 2. Bob was getting ridiculed by Driedger, but Q stuck with Bob and wasted his years here. I guess Maurice has the benefit of not having to deal with his poor play right after the massive deal.

 

[batting1k]

The new ChatGPT AI bot serving up some truth:

 

[ScottyMascotty]

Why is Boston still one of the best teams? Because they have a great team and are getting good goaltending - interesting side note, if Cassidy is so amazing, how are the Bruins still able to function well without him? Maybe it's because they actually have a good team? Montgomery may be a good coach, but he's not some god-level coach. Bergeron, Marchand, Pasta, Krejci are better than anything we can ice. Colorado may be missing their captain, but he's not their best player and they have two elite guys in Mack and Makar who are better than Barkov - again, they have two players that are better than Barkov who we have been missing. So yeah, they're going to be fine without Landeskog.

I think winning the President's trophy last season, mainly on the back of OT/3v3 coin flips, has overinflated expectations of this team. We were never as good as last year's regular season record indicated. We were good, but not historic good. This year we have a weaker roster (even when fully healthy), worse goaltending, and some key early-season injuries. Don't see any coach would have made a difference.

I don't want to use Maurice as a scapegoat, but I also don't agree with excuse "they're just not that good". Advanced metrics show that they still have lot of talent to be around the best teams in the league. They were lucky last year, but they absolutely deserved President's trophy. That team had excellent depth and offense was definitely historic good.

 

[KW]

The new ChatGPT AI bot serving up some truth:

View attachment 615761

Yeah, but a goalie? It’s totally fair to blame the goalie.

And sometimes/often the coach too.

 

[ScottyMascotty]

I get that it's the cool thing to dump on Maurice, just like everybody else seems to do because the guy's been around forever and hasn't actually won a cup. I also think he's made some weird personnel choices that I don't like, and people tend to dislike coaches that stick to veteran players. But I also can't pin our recent problems on Maurice and says he's being given a fair evaluation given our bottom-5 goaltending and handicapped roster.

I'm not saying Maurice has been amazing, but the amount of hate he gets here is way more than it should be considering the goalie and roster situation. So much nitpicky stuff that makes no sense. And yes goalies have absolutely been the main issue, plus Barkov playing poorly and getting sick/injured, and having no number 1 dman anymore. Focusing on nitpicky things about Maurice is missing out on the actual issues.

PoMo just doesn't have positive reputation, so he'll never get benefit of the doubt. If something goes wrong, he would be considered as a first man to blame.