OT: THE OT Thread: Grass mowing szn is here

Status
Not open for further replies.

brian_griffin

"Eric Cartman?"
May 10, 2007
16,792
8,048
In the Panderverse
Not to make light of the above, but, nearly 100 years ago, my grandma, age 35, gave birth to my dad and his fraternal twin sister after having 7 successful single deliveries in the preceding 14 years. As the family history goes, a couple days later one of the nurses dropped his infant sister and she died. My grandfather told the hospital staff to not tell my grandmother what really happened because she already had 8 remaining children for which to be thankful. Plus it was a small mountain town 6,000 people and many people knew each other. 21 months later she gave birth to triplets. The twins and triplets were born in the depths of the Great Depression, 11 kids total raised through that era. A lot of mouths to feed.
 
Last edited:

HOOats

born Ruffian
Nov 19, 2007
2,598
3,336
City of Buffalo
While I do think that the newer generations seem to be more sensitive to the shortcomings of the storms, I'd say the older generations have become increasingly stubborn and ignorant about handling the storms themselves, which have been the biggest cause of the issues we've seen recently.

A lot of the death that transpired in the most recent storms was because a lot of people thought they were bigger/stronger than the storms, and their recent experiences through their lives gave them this sense of "I survived back then, I think I'm smart enough to survive this" and so at times where they should prepare for a storm they are being warned about, they are just downplaying the warning, and then when they are told not to be on the roads, then they downplay that, and then you are left with a mass amount of people making stupid decisions out of selfishness and those that provide services that could make things easier for all in less than 24 hours, are left with obstacles and a hell of a time to help people extending the time it takes to help.

When you have a community of people working together, sacrificing their own selfishness and understanding priorities of what's important, being prepared regardless of your opinion on the strength of said storm, you will see things run smoother. My neighbors and I (we have about 4 households) work together, where we help clear sidewalks and fire hydrants, and if needed clear walkways and driveways for those unable to get outside, we help clear cars off, and if people need to park in a driveway because the plows are running, then we allow that. You wouldn't believe how quickly and often our street gets cleared and how little of a mess things are because there are no obstacles for people and those doing public services.

Sorry for the rant, it's just a sore subject for me because of how much of a pain hearing about how the government over plans or controls too much at a time of emergency, meanwhile these people were the core reason why things went to hell around here.
I agree with some points and disagree with others. I have a lot of thoughts on this topic (as many of us do) and haven't had the chance to write about it, so apologies for the extreme length.

You're right that it's not just younger generations that are unprepared and uninformed re: winter storms. But I will say that every generation appears less capable and knowledgeable than the previous generations that held their spot (ie the 50 year olds in 1970 were better at this than the 50 year olds of today, etc).

I'm definitely an outlier in my generation (36), because most of my peers (otherwise bright people) are literally helpless when a situation like a major blizzard arises. From not having a pantry and depending on UberEats, not owning a shovel/snowpants/gloves, not being fit enough to walk a couple miles in deep snow, not watching the news and being aware of incoming weather. My network only understood the gravity of that incoming storm because I harangued them about it (also, it was clear and well-publicized for a week, anyone who didn't know about it wasn't paying attention). It's a sad and strange reality for my generation, especially living where we live.

I agree that there's an older guard that has come to distrust and downplay projections of incoming severe winter weather. There are a couple reasons for it in my mind:

First - the volatile nature of lake effect storms and the corresponding difficulty in forecasting them. Meteorologists have to ring alarm bells when there's a chance of substantial impact, even if they only end up accurate 1/5 times. Not to mention the hyper local disparity in impacts that can change from block to block. So if someone has been around for 40 WNY winters, I can understand getting a bit jaded when predictions turn out to be non-storms, preemptively cancelled schools, games, etc.

Second - the local news has become too sensational about storms, failing to convey actual information, and that's really negative and dangerous imo. And somehow they manage to be sensational while also failing to convey the real-life seriousness of the situation and how to prepare. The CNNification of local weather reporting, with flashy graphics and tabloid-quality language, leads people to tune it out.

There is a bit of overrating of capabilities, "I survived back then, I think I'm smart enough to survive this" as you said. But I don't think it's as prevalent as you perhaps and it wasn't a factor in many deaths based on the reporting. It definitely exists though. My 79 year old father, very hardy for his age, initially downplayed the storm, but grudgingly admitted my alarm had be right after I filled up five gas cans for their generator and ended up spending 5 days snowed in for Christmas at their place off Elmwood (which was one of the epicenters of the 5+ feet belt).

Your description of your neighborhood's communal efforts at preparedness and action is great to hear. That's what really makes the difference when the shit hits the fan, when the world shrinks to only what you can trudge to. As I kid, we'd all roam around Elmwood (possibly with a few beers) and push cars out for fun, help people shovel, etc. If I don't have anywhere pressing to be like work or school, there's not much I enjoy more than forgetting about the outside world and just pitching in to help folks for hours on end.

In my opinion, most of the deaths and misery stemmed from a lack of the strong community that you and I seem to both value. 10 of the 35 people whose deaths have been detailed by the BN froze to deaths in their apartments. One can only assume that they were older and probably poorer than the average Buffalonian, and probably living in neighborhoods that are less stable, less owner-occupied, more transient, and thus less connected and supportive. We checked on every older or medically needy neighbor around us, as I'm sure you did. This is one of the things lost from "old Buffalo" and it's dealing with storms. Everyone knew their neighbors and probably had a phone list of everyone on their street. It was a city of little villages. Between the loss of so many expats, the infusion of outsiders into neighborhoods, and the general degradation and atomization of our society, I think we know and care for each other less than ever in this city.

And that gets to my last point, and maybe where we disagree most. I don't think people who piss and moan about the government overplanning or controlling too much are what goes wrong in situations like this today. Whether it's a result of Covid or just the modern helpless condition, I think it's that people expect the government to tell them exactly what to do and take care of them, when it's really their own responsibility. The City, County, and State absolutely dropped the ball in many ways that are larger than one person, family, or neighborhood can manage (and the NYU report on that was damning). But in the end, we're responsible for ourselves and our loved ones, and assuming otherwise is a great way to get into a really bad spot in 2023.

For the two people who read any of this, thanks for indulging me. Turned into more of a blizzard diary than I intended, but I'm a storm-nerd and a civics nerd, plus it was probably one of the most memorable five days that will ever happen to me. I really feel awful for those who were negatively impacted by the storm and I hope we can all learn from it. But my storm experience was incredible. Roaming around the empty streets in the teeth of the heaviest bands, fully geared up, is one of my favorite things ever. That kind of extreme weather happens in only a few rather remote places on earth and we get to experience it in a metro of 1.2 million amongst world-famous architecture and parks. The bars on Elmwood stayed open for the most part, so after snow blowing and cooking all day, everyone walked up at Cole's, Beer Keep, and Jack Rabbit to commiserate and find community. I finally felt like I was experiencing Buffalo history like '77 had been. There was a Goo Goo Dolls singalong at Cole's on Christmas night that feels kinda corny in hindsight, but it was pretty special in the moment.

Again sorry for the length, I just can't wait for snow.
 

Push Dr Tracksuit

Gerstmann 3:16
Jun 9, 2012
13,534
3,720
As a 37 yr old I don’t know any 50yr olds from 1970 anymore. But, from my experience in other things, most people over estimate how well their elders did things. Dads always a hero in those stories. Then you get old enough that they invite you to the table and you get stories about getting drunk in a truck and almost dying or uncles losing hands in snow blowers. I’ve come to find that if you find an old timer willing to talk about the good ole days the only thing you know for certain is that they survived the good ole days. Whether by luck or by skill is left to how good a story teller they are, the better the story the less credit luck gets. I get together with the boys from school and we tell our stories. Our kids don’t get the real stories. They get the safe ones, sterilized of all the incidents that only Lady Luck got us through. They get the version of attempt 27 after we learned the lesson. My vehicles always have good tires, there’s always a blanket, spare batteries for the phone, etc. because once you’ve made it through a blizzard stuck on the side of a thruway you know you don’t want to do it again. Dad told me to do those things because he was stuck on the thruway, and grandpa was fixing jeeps in Korea.
 

Old Navy Goat

Registered User
Apr 24, 2003
11,995
8,331
Pattaya Thailand aka adult Disneyland
I remember '77 and thought it was great until a couple days in when it sucked as most of the extended family was with us as they didn't have power. I remember getting snowed in at school and sleeping in the cafeteria, not much fun. I remember doing SERE in Maine in January, not fun in the least. I remember doing arctic survival training, not fun at all.

Now I see the photos such as from the October blizzard and last year, and think to myself no bitching when it's a torrential deluge for 5 or 6 days due to a tropical storm. I don't hate snow, I don't necessarily like it but I'm happy that my winter means highs in mid 80s with upper 70s as nighttime lows
 

DJN21

Registered User
Aug 8, 2011
10,039
3,366
Rochester
I'm not even all that old at 34 but remember my catholic school growing up was used as a neighborhood bomb shleter back in the day and we'd have drills on where to go and what to do in the event of a bombing (like it would matter lol...this was the 90's and we'd all be toast anyways). In the basement of our school was the lunch room, a small savings account style bank which we were forced as children to deposit any form of money into in exchange for a sucker lol, and next to that a bpowling alley and a bar that was filled with the neighbor lowlifes during the night before the catholic school opened. Ironically my aunt ran the bar and bowling alley and would babysit me during the summer months and Id be shooting pool and bowling in the catholic school basement I thought was home. Kinda crazy looking back on it now but it was the norm back then...
 

Ehran

Registered User
Sponsor
Feb 2, 2019
4,534
4,403
Texas

I’d never mow the lawn again
A couple of years ago I walked out into my garage and stepped on a snake. It was long, about 6' in length. Thankfully it was just a simple rat snake because I have a large field behind my house and many of my neighbors have seen quite a few rattlesnakes over the past few years.

I can neither confirm nor deny that neighbors down the street heard me scream like a little girl when I first stepped on that snake. :eek3:
 
  • Haha
Reactions: oldgoalie

oldgoalie

Goaltending matters.
Jan 7, 2004
13,462
6,401
VA

ValJamesDuex

Registered User
Nov 4, 2021
11,733
6,773
Screen Shot 2023-08-12 at 11.25.35 AM.png
 
  • Haha
Reactions: TheMistyStranger

Chainshot

Give 'em Enough Rope
Sponsor
Feb 28, 2002
157,630
112,967
Tarnation
Happy Birthday @Chainshot. May your day be glorious.

Thanks!

My parents were in town and we actually HOSTED PEOPLE for the first time with a real guest room. I feel like such an adult.

We went to dinner last and I had the best gnocchi I have ever had in my life. The gorgonzola cream sauce on the ravioli was among the best I've ever had as well.
 

brian_griffin

"Eric Cartman?"
May 10, 2007
16,792
8,048
In the Panderverse
While I do think that the newer generations seem to be more sensitive to the shortcomings of the storms, I'd say the older generations have become increasingly stubborn and ignorant about handling the storms themselves, which have been the biggest cause of the issues we've seen recently.

A lot of the death that transpired in the most recent storms was because a lot of people thought they were bigger/stronger than the storms, and their recent experiences through their lives gave them this sense of "I survived back then, I think I'm smart enough to survive this" and so at times where they should prepare for a storm they are being warned about, they are just downplaying the warning, and then when they are told not to be on the roads, then they downplay that, and then you are left with a mass amount of people making stupid decisions out of selfishness and those that provide services that could make things easier for all in less than 24 hours, are left with obstacles and a hell of a time to help people extending the time it takes to help.

When you have a community of people working together, sacrificing their own selfishness and understanding priorities of what's important, being prepared regardless of your opinion on the strength of said storm, you will see things run smoother. My neighbors and I (we have about 4 households) work together, where we help clear sidewalks and fire hydrants, and if needed clear walkways and driveways for those unable to get outside, we help clear cars off, and if people need to park in a driveway because the plows are running, then we allow that. You wouldn't believe how quickly and often our street gets cleared and how little of a mess things are because there are no obstacles for people and those doing public services.

Sorry for the rant, it's just a sore subject for me because of how much of a pain hearing about how the government over plans or controls too much at a time of emergency, meanwhile these people were the core reason why things went to hell around here.
(You're not ranting.)

I believe the bolded was one of @HOOats points. i.e., two generations ago there was a greater sense of duty to look out for your neighbors, etc. Additionally, I know my parents and grandparents had a strong sense of shared sacrifice for the common good via their Depression and WWII experiences. (And with that common good also determined by their community and church and not singularly by the government.)

Three other points from me (which I believe add on, and do not negate any of yours, @HOOats, and others points,:
1. In the smart phone era (digital camera / video in every phone, social media, everyone is an amateur reporter), events of "stupidity" and "screw ups" get a disproportionate share of the attention of the masses, whereas even 1 generation ago such saturation was not even technically possible, and 2 generations ago was limited to print media or broadcast media. TV broadcast media for storm info was limited to 2, maybe 3, half-hour slots a day, and eventually also a "crawl". I am old enough to remember AM radio (WGR, WBEN, WKBW now WWKB) as the principal "storm focused" communication methods.

2. Errors and stupidity will always receive human attention (social media, broadcast media) in far disproportion to success and good judgement. It's partially human nature.

3. As technology advanced, prior generations hung onto the old stuff they upgraded, and put it in the basement / garage for "whatever" / "whenever". My dad had a Sigg camp stove he used for camping / picnicking before he was married. My brother and I were in scouts and garbage-picked a two-burner "briefcase" camping stove which took the blue propane benzomatic cylinders, etc., fixed it up, and got it running. Wired landline phones were "POTS" plain old telephone system 48V DC from central office, didn't need AC unless you used cordless handsets with base chargers. It was rare to lose both phone and electric (meant multiple outside lines were down/broken by ice).



While I do think that the newer generations seem to be more sensitive to the shortcomings of the storms, I'd say the older generations have become increasingly stubborn and ignorant about handling the storms themselves, which have been the biggest cause of the issues we've seen recently.

A lot of the death that transpired in the most recent storms was because a lot of people thought they were bigger/stronger than the storms, and their recent experiences through their lives gave them this sense of "I survived back then, I think I'm smart enough to survive this" and so at times where they should prepare for a storm they are being warned about, they are just downplaying the warning, and then when they are told not to be on the roads, then they downplay that, and then you are left with a mass amount of people making stupid decisions out of selfishness and those that provide services that could make things easier for all in less than 24 hours, are left with obstacles and a hell of a time to help people extending the time it takes to help.

When you have a community of people working together, sacrificing their own selfishness and understanding priorities of what's important, being prepared regardless of your opinion on the strength of said storm, you will see things run smoother. My neighbors and I (we have about 4 households) work together, where we help clear sidewalks and fire hydrants, and if needed clear walkways and driveways for those unable to get outside, we help clear cars off, and if people need to park in a driveway because the plows are running, then we allow that. You wouldn't believe how quickly and often our street gets cleared and how little of a mess things are because there are no obstacles for people and those doing public services.

Sorry for the rant, it's just a sore subject for me because of how much of a pain hearing about how the government over plans or controls too much at a time of emergency, meanwhile these people were the core reason why things went to hell around here.

For us non locals, what is WIVB-TV and is there any way to watch outside of local area?
(and)
It’s channel 4 in Buffalo.

Here’s a list of the markets showing the game and what channel:


If you are not in one of those markets, it will be on NFL network. Or you could subscribe to NFL+ to watch all the Bills preseason games live. Or just use a “free” streaming service.
WIVB, chosen to signify "We're for (roman numeral 4 as IV) Buffalo". Used to be WBEN but there was a new FCC regulation that a TV station couldn't also own a newspaper or vice versa.

I thought I'd have the game on NFL network, but it was blacked out. I watched the condensed replay. My comments are in the football (non-OT thread).
 
  • Like
Reactions: HOOats

OkimLom

Registered User
May 3, 2010
15,737
7,165
(You're not ranting.)

I believe the bolded was one of @HOOats points. i.e., two generations ago there was a greater sense of duty to look out for your neighbors, etc. Additionally, I know my parents and grandparents had a strong sense of shared sacrifice for the common good via their Depression and WWII experiences. (And with that common good also determined by their community and church and not singularly by the government.)

Three other points from me (which I believe add on, and do not negate any of yours, @HOOats, and others points,:
1. In the smart phone era (digital camera / video in every phone, social media, everyone is an amateur reporter), events of "stupidity" and "screw ups" get a disproportionate share of the attention of the masses, whereas even 1 generation ago such saturation was not even technically possible, and 2 generations ago was limited to print media or broadcast media. TV broadcast media for storm info was limited to 2, maybe 3, half-hour slots a day, and eventually also a "crawl". I am old enough to remember AM radio (WGR, WBEN, WKBW now WWKB) as the principal "storm focused" communication methods.

2. Errors and stupidity will always receive human attention (social media, broadcast media) in far disproportion to success and good judgement. It's partially human nature.

3. As technology advanced, prior generations hung onto the old stuff they upgraded, and put it in the basement / garage for "whatever" / "whenever". My dad had a Sigg camp stove he used for camping / picnicking before he was married. My brother and I were in scouts and garbage-picked a two-burner "briefcase" camping stove which took the blue propane benzomatic cylinders, etc., fixed it up, and got it running. Wired landline phones were "POTS" plain old telephone system 48V DC from central office, didn't need AC unless you used cordless handsets with base chargers. It was rare to lose both phone and electric (meant multiple outside lines were down/broken by ice).






(and)

WIVB, chosen to signify "We're for (roman numeral 4 as IV) Buffalo". Used to be WBEN but there was a new FCC regulation that a TV station couldn't also own a newspaper or vice versa.

I thought I'd have the game on NFL network, but it was blacked out. I watched the condensed replay. My comments are in the football (non-OT thread).
Thanks for your thoughts and insight, sincerely.

I agree with some points and disagree with others. I have a lot of thoughts on this topic (as many of us do) and haven't had the chance to write about it, so apologies for the extreme length.

You're right that it's not just younger generations that are unprepared and uninformed re: winter storms. But I will say that every generation appears less capable and knowledgeable than the previous generations that held their spot (ie the 50 year olds in 1970 were better at this than the 50 year olds of today, etc).

I'm definitely an outlier in my generation (36), because most of my peers (otherwise bright people) are literally helpless when a situation like a major blizzard arises. From not having a pantry and depending on UberEats, not owning a shovel/snowpants/gloves, not being fit enough to walk a couple miles in deep snow, not watching the news and being aware of incoming weather. My network only understood the gravity of that incoming storm because I harangued them about it (also, it was clear and well-publicized for a week, anyone who didn't know about it wasn't paying attention). It's a sad and strange reality for my generation, especially living where we live.

I agree that there's an older guard that has come to distrust and downplay projections of incoming severe winter weather. There are a couple reasons for it in my mind:

First - the volatile nature of lake effect storms and the corresponding difficulty in forecasting them. Meteorologists have to ring alarm bells when there's a chance of substantial impact, even if they only end up accurate 1/5 times. Not to mention the hyper local disparity in impacts that can change from block to block. So if someone has been around for 40 WNY winters, I can understand getting a bit jaded when predictions turn out to be non-storms, preemptively cancelled schools, games, etc.

Second - the local news has become too sensational about storms, failing to convey actual information, and that's really negative and dangerous imo. And somehow they manage to be sensational while also failing to convey the real-life seriousness of the situation and how to prepare. The CNNification of local weather reporting, with flashy graphics and tabloid-quality language, leads people to tune it out.

There is a bit of overrating of capabilities, "I survived back then, I think I'm smart enough to survive this" as you said. But I don't think it's as prevalent as you perhaps and it wasn't a factor in many deaths based on the reporting. It definitely exists though. My 79 year old father, very hardy for his age, initially downplayed the storm, but grudgingly admitted my alarm had be right after I filled up five gas cans for their generator and ended up spending 5 days snowed in for Christmas at their place off Elmwood (which was one of the epicenters of the 5+ feet belt).

Your description of your neighborhood's communal efforts at preparedness and action is great to hear. That's what really makes the difference when the shit hits the fan, when the world shrinks to only what you can trudge to. As I kid, we'd all roam around Elmwood (possibly with a few beers) and push cars out for fun, help people shovel, etc. If I don't have anywhere pressing to be like work or school, there's not much I enjoy more than forgetting about the outside world and just pitching in to help folks for hours on end.

In my opinion, most of the deaths and misery stemmed from a lack of the strong community that you and I seem to both value. 10 of the 35 people whose deaths have been detailed by the BN froze to deaths in their apartments. One can only assume that they were older and probably poorer than the average Buffalonian, and probably living in neighborhoods that are less stable, less owner-occupied, more transient, and thus less connected and supportive. We checked on every older or medically needy neighbor around us, as I'm sure you did. This is one of the things lost from "old Buffalo" and it's dealing with storms. Everyone knew their neighbors and probably had a phone list of everyone on their street. It was a city of little villages. Between the loss of so many expats, the infusion of outsiders into neighborhoods, and the general degradation and atomization of our society, I think we know and care for each other less than ever in this city.

And that gets to my last point, and maybe where we disagree most. I don't think people who piss and moan about the government overplanning or controlling too much are what goes wrong in situations like this today. Whether it's a result of Covid or just the modern helpless condition, I think it's that people expect the government to tell them exactly what to do and take care of them, when it's really their own responsibility. The City, County, and State absolutely dropped the ball in many ways that are larger than one person, family, or neighborhood can manage (and the NYU report on that was damning). But in the end, we're responsible for ourselves and our loved ones, and assuming otherwise is a great way to get into a really bad spot in 2023.

For the two people who read any of this, thanks for indulging me. Turned into more of a blizzard diary than I intended, but I'm a storm-nerd and a civics nerd, plus it was probably one of the most memorable five days that will ever happen to me. I really feel awful for those who were negatively impacted by the storm and I hope we can all learn from it. But my storm experience was incredible. Roaming around the empty streets in the teeth of the heaviest bands, fully geared up, is one of my favorite things ever. That kind of extreme weather happens in only a few rather remote places on earth and we get to experience it in a metro of 1.2 million amongst world-famous architecture and parks. The bars on Elmwood stayed open for the most part, so after snow blowing and cooking all day, everyone walked up at Cole's, Beer Keep, and Jack Rabbit to commiserate and find community. I finally felt like I was experiencing Buffalo history like '77 had been. There was a Goo Goo Dolls singalong at Cole's on Christmas night that feels kinda corny in hindsight, but it was pretty special in the moment.

Again sorry for the length, I just can't wait for snow.
Thanks for responding.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HOOats

sabremike

SAVE OUR SABRES: PEGULA OUT!!!!!!!!
Aug 30, 2010
24,731
38,431
Brewster, NY
Thanks!

My parents were in town and we actually HOSTED PEOPLE for the first time with a real guest room. I feel like such an adult.

We went to dinner last and I had the best gnocchi I have ever had in my life. The gorgonzola cream sauce on the ravioli was among the best I've ever had as well.
Sir, your birthday giraffe:
FB_IMG_1671619892278.jpg
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Chainshot
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad