OT: THE OT Thread: Grass mowing szn is here

[BUCKSHOT]

The air quality is pretty bad again in Rochester. Is this a symptom of climate change? Ive been talking to family about it, and they can't recall it ever being this terrible of air quality during a single summer.

I believe the air quality issue has to do with the wild fire (smoke) in Canada

 

[Dubi Doo]

I believe the air quality issue has to do with the wild fire (smoke) in Canada

Oh yeah, absolutely, but climate change may be behind that as well. Just wondering if this is something we're going to have to get used to or if it's just a really, really shitty year for the forests of Canada.

 

[Fenway]

Never thought I would see Wegman's close a location but it is happening outside of Boston

Wegmans closing Natick store; 'Unable to attract enough customers"

The Natick Mall supermarket is one of the company's largest locations.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Gras]

Oh yeah, absolutely, but climate change may be behind that as well. Just wondering if this is something we're going to have to get used to or if it's just a really, really shitty year for the forests of Canada.

Fire is a natural part of the life cycle for forests.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

It also doesn't help that the conservation Nazis, that aren't really conservationists don't allow proper forest management which leads to a higher rate of forest fires

 

[yahhockey]

The air quality is pretty bad again in Rochester. Is this a symptom of climate change? Ive been talking to family about it, and they can't recall it ever being this terrible of air quality during a single summer.

I'm open to be corrected if any of this is incorrect...I believe it's partly due to the meandering jet stream, potentially a cause of both longer periods of heat leading to more forest fires and potentially directing smoke to a place it may not normally reach and/or making it linger for a longer period of time. The wavy jet stream may be due to climate change. Overall Canada is having a historic wildfire season so there is far more smoke in the world to be directed south if the winds blow the correct direction. Also, if the fire is not a threat to population centres then they let it burn because fires are part of the forest life cycle and the budget to fight every wildfire would be astronomical. A byproduct of having too much land or not enough people, lol

In the past 30 years, scientists have observed an intensification of the waves, coinciding with increased global warming. More waviness in the jet stream means that rain and wind remain in a region longer than if the jet stream simply traveled due east with no detours

Various researchers have made the correlation between climate change and greater waviness in jet streams, however, the mechanism to explain the connection has been debated..

The meandering waves that connect jet streams to global warming

A team of scientists theorize that global warming is the culprit behind increased waviness in these global wind currents — and the severe weather that results.

news.yale.edu

In recent months, the jet stream’s patterns trapped and stalled a ridge of high pressure over northern Canada, which caused a heat wave and primed the landscape for the wildfires that later sent smoke pouring into the Midwest and the eastern U.S. Earlier this month, another ridge of high pressure centered over Texas, sending temperatures soaring.

Scorching heat and Canada wildfires could be tied to ‘wavy, blocky’ jet stream

Some researchers think climate change is disrupting the jet stream's flow and causing it to bake regions in heat longer.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Chainshot]

The air quality is pretty bad again in Rochester. Is this a symptom of climate change? Ive been talking to family about it, and they can't recall it ever being this terrible of air quality during a single summer.

In as much as higher average temperatures tend to cause ground fuels to dry out faster and provide easier tinder to wildfire, yeah, it's because we're on a heating upswing. Add in that the Canadian pine beetle ran rampant through the boreal forests of Canada (and the southern pine beetle has worked its way up north of Albany), there is a lot of standing snags ("dead trees") and a lot of fuel on the ground. So... hot and dry, lots of fuel, things are going to burn. And that's causing your air quality issue.

 

[brian_griffin]

It also doesn't help that the conservation Nazis, that aren't really conservationists don't allow proper forest management which leads to a higher rate of forest fires

And concomitantly leads to a larger volume/mass of burned fuel (amplifying what @Chainshot said).
Lack of (or underwhelming relative to past practices) forest management made a couple of the past years of Western USA / California fires worse.

Will be curious to see what the beech tree disease does to these issues in the USA midwest, USA northeast, and Ontario. Hint: Not going to help.

 

[Chainshot]

It also doesn't help that the conservation Nazis, that aren't really conservationists don't allow proper forest management which leads to a higher rate of forest fires

Policy has a lot to do with it. If you have people who think that forests are only valuable because they can be turned into something (often by them) or people who think that forests can't be managed by anyone because they want no one to do anything to any wild land ever. And they both kinda suck TBH. I could get fairly tangential on things but there are some combinations of factors.

One is that some people don't ever want prescribed burns, some is that habitat for endangered species can be managed differently. Some is that people who are sometimes in charge don't want management entities to do well and hobbled them for years, both at the state and federal level. If you can't burn because of ordinance and enforcement - people don't like smoke, there might be a protected species, they straight up don't understand that at some point ALL forests burn - then you get fuel loads. Add in the beetles...

It's funny that people who in my opinion are the best conservationists tend to take a middle ground. Folks need to have the staff and tools and go ahead to do it. If you pull their teeth, they can't do the job. Forests have been managed with fire in North America for the better part of 12,000 years, some of why early explorers talked of being able to ride in wagons from inland from the coast for days on end is in part because people managed the forest with fire.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Makes no sense, the last week torrential rain all day everyday with temps in the upper 70s, low 80s so pretty much never left the condo. Yesterday sun shining temps back to mid 90s. Today bright and early 0430ish wake with fever and head cold. I last left on Saturday, even the caretaker hasn't gone out as the pantry is fully stocked so no idea who I caught it from

 

[Dubi Doo]

Fire is a natural part of the life cycle for forests.

This has seemingly been an especially bad year. Last year was bad, too, but this year has really sucked.

It also doesn't help that the conservation Nazis, that aren't really conservationists don't allow proper forest management which leads to a higher rate of forest fires

This is actually what the vet said today when I took my cat in. He agreed that the terrible air quality we're dealing with has been unprecedented. He then went on a mini rant on why black people can say the n word but white people can't. We won't get into that, though, haha. Weird day at the vet.

I'm open to be corrected if any of this is incorrect...I believe it's partly due to the meandering jet stream, potentially a cause of both longer periods of heat leading to more forest fires and potentially directing smoke to a place it may not normally reach and/or making it linger for a longer period of time. The wavy jet stream may be due to climate change. Overall Canada is having a historic wildfire season so there is far more smoke in the world to be directed south if the winds blow the correct direction. Also, if the fire is not a threat to population centres then they let it burn because fires are part of the forest life cycle and the budget to fight every wildfire would be astronomical. A byproduct of having too much land or not enough people, lol

The meandering waves that connect jet streams to global warming

A team of scientists theorize that global warming is the culprit behind increased waviness in these global wind currents — and the severe weather that results.

news.yale.edu

Scorching heat and Canada wildfires could be tied to ‘wavy, blocky’ jet stream

Some researchers think climate change is disrupting the jet stream's flow and causing it to bake regions in heat longer.

www.nbcnews.com

In as much as higher average temperatures tend to cause ground fuels to dry out faster and provide easier tinder to wildfire, yeah, it's because we're on a heating upswing. Add in that the Canadian pine beetle ran rampant through the boreal forests of Canada (and the southern pine beetle has worked its way up north of Albany), there is a lot of standing snags ("dead trees") and a lot of fuel on the ground. So... hot and dry, lots of fuel, things are going to burn. And that's causing your air quality issue.

Very interesting information. Thank you! I agree more with these takes, but will fully admit Im a layman in this subject and understand other factors likely play a role, too.


Thank you all who replied. Im just a bit worried with how future summers will be. I just want my little guy to be able to enjoy his summers like I did as a kid. It leaves me a bit uneasy with how things have progressed over the past few years with the forest fires in Canada.

 

[Chainshot]

And concomitantly leads to a larger volume/mass of burned fuel (amplifying what @Chainshot said).
Lack of (or underwhelming relative to past practices) forest management made a couple of the past years of Western USA / California fires worse.

Will be curious to see what the beech tree disease does to these issues. Hint: Not going to help.

The beech issue -- which goes along with the long tradition of introducing diseases to North American forests that have done things like killed off the American chestnut, the American elm, the laurel wilt (bay trees and avocodos), hemlocks (woolly algolid), the ash bore... that's in the last 100-ish years. There is also a palm blight out of Texas, citrus greening which also does in wild citrus, and a box elder stressor beetle too. Leaves a lot of fuel for fire. NY has a problem with the ash bore and they don't allow anyone to burn a f***ing thing. There is the possibility in parts of NYS of a fire similar to the Carr Fire in Missouri because of shit management and policy.

 

[Chainshot]

Never thought I would see Wegman's close a location but it is happening outside of Boston

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Wegmans closing Natick store; 'Unable to attract enough customers"

The Natick Mall supermarket is one of the company's largest locations.

www.cbsnews.com

Well that's surprising. I wonder if the death of the American shopping mall has something to do with their inability to draw customers. They only open a couple of locations per year and tend to be very deliberate in their expansion planning so it's a surprise when one fails.

 

[Gras]

The beech issue -- which goes along with the long tradition of introducing diseases to North American forests that have done things like killed off the American chestnut, the American elm, the laurel wilt (bay trees and avocodos), hemlocks (woolly algolid), the ash bore... that's in the last 100-ish years. There is also a palm blight out of Texas, citrus greening which also does in wild citrus, and a box elder stressor beetle too. Leaves a lot of fuel for fire. NY has a problem with the ash bore and they don't allow anyone to burn a f***ing thing. There is the possibility in parts of NYS of a fire similar to the Carr Fire in Missouri because of shit management and policy.

I'm of the opinion to just le tit burn unless it threatens occupied structures, but prescribed burns and thinning are necessary to maintain a healthy forest.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

@KiwiGriff when I lived in Seoul there was a minimart at the bottom of my street, literally as it was a big ass hill, and across from it was a flop house that the Russian girls would stay at. I would hit the minimart for shin rayum and pringles on the way home from work if lazy. While in there I'd joke in Korean with the clerks and regulars, would say hi to the Russian girls that were happy to see a gajin face. Tell them if bored to stop over, I was in first building on the left after the turn.

Cedric was a huge body builder, Army Ranger that I played softball with. He liked to sit on his balcony, read and smoke stogies. He'd see a bunch of girls climbing the hill, speaking Russian and knew they were heading to my place. He'd then wait 15 - 20 min and walk over with 2 bottles of Hennesey. As for the Siberian bit, it seemed that the majority came from there

 

[Chainshot]

I'm of the opinion to just le tit burn unless it threatens occupied structures, but prescribed burns and thinning are necessary to maintain a healthy forest.

The feds managed things for almost 50 years where they put everything out because the folks who made the policy viewed it as loss of possible valuable lumber. USFS didn't break with Silcox's 10 a.m. rule until the late '70's and even then, that was over 40 years of staunch enforcement so it took until into the late '90's before they started to really change how they manage.

Part of it is that fire is... well... fire. It doesn't play. It doesn't like to be directed or controlled. Letting something blow up too big tends to have issues that an agency can't stop it from destroying property, homes, etc... when it gets big enough. Thinning strategies can help. Prescribed burning can help. Allowing practicality can help (like, if something needs to be burned, let qualified people burn it, don't get in the way which is one thing that I get angry at usually old hippy/flowerchildren types who push so much of the conservation movements left in the US because they very much do obstructionist stuff).

Ecologically we know that all forests burn. What is the timeline for when they burn normally? Is it annual, semi-annual? Every five, 10, 20 years? 50? Every century (or longer)? And how have we, through how we've managed things over the last 120-ish years put stressors on that cycle. Stand replacing fires (big fuel loads, hot, dry, and windy conditions) can be part of a forest life cycle. Hell, there is debate in forestry about what constitutes a healthy forest and what constitutes the letting things burn vs. trying to manage vs. trying to always put things out.

(I was going for my wildland firefighting cert at one point recently. I have friends who do it for a couple different agencies and some who do it privately for land management. I have folks I know who have rotated into some wild fires in places around the US and Canada including this summer's Canadian conflagration.)

 

[Butt Ox]

NM here. It's really odd how Parks and the Forest crews always seem to lose control of one every season or so. Legacy land reduced to pennies and peoples driven away. Those in charge relocated to D.C. You hate to see it.

 

[Gras]

The feds managed things for almost 50 years where they put everything out because the folks who made the policy viewed it as loss of possible valuable lumber. USFS didn't break with Silcox's 10 a.m. rule until the late '70's and even then, that was over 40 years of staunch enforcement so it took until into the late '90's before they started to really change how they manage.

Part of it is that fire is... well... fire. It doesn't play. It doesn't like to be directed or controlled. Letting something blow up too big tends to have issues that an agency can't stop it from destroying property, homes, etc... when it gets big enough. Thinning strategies can help. Prescribed burning can help. Allowing practicality can help (like, if something needs to be burned, let qualified people burn it, don't get in the way which is one thing that I get angry at usually old hippy/flowerchildren types who push so much of the conservation movements left in the US because they very much do obstructionist stuff).

Ecologically we know that all forests burn. What is the timeline for when they burn normally? Is it annual, semi-annual? Every five, 10, 20 years? 50? Every century (or longer)? And how have we, through how we've managed things over the last 120-ish years put stressors on that cycle. Stand replacing fires (big fuel loads, hot, dry, and windy conditions) can be part of a forest life cycle. Hell, there is debate in forestry about what constitutes a healthy forest and what constitutes the letting things burn vs. trying to manage vs. trying to always put things out.

(I was going for my wildland firefighting cert at one point recently. I have friends who do it for a couple different agencies and some who do it privately for land management. I have folks I know who have rotated into some wild fires in places around the US and Canada including this summer's Canadian conflagration.)

One thing about the wildland and hot shot crews is heroin is pretty rampant through those circles due to the working conditions and physical toll.

 

[Chainshot]

One thing about the wildland and hot shot crews is heroin is pretty rampant through those circles due to the working conditions and physical toll.

To quote every "Lethal Weapon" film, I'm too old for that shit. Both the drugs and the firefighting. I have had a couple people in my life ask pointedly if I would not pursue it. So I backed away.

 

[Gras]

To quote every "Lethal Weapon" film, I'm too old for that shit. Both the drugs and the firefighting. I have had a couple people in my life ask pointedly if I would not pursue it. So I backed away.

One of my friends brothers got hooked on dope when he was a wildland.

 

[whiplash]

It's climate change. Hippies aren't causing them, government mismanagement or conspiracies aren't causing them. They could both make things WORSE, sure. But they are not what's causing wildfires and they are not the reason for the increased frequency. It's because of climate change. I'd cite a study but really it's just "all of the largely agreed upon ones".

 

[Bendium]

Solid job addressing this @Chainshot. I started reading the thread and thought to respond, but didn't quite know where to start, because quite frankly it is a very complex issue, kept reading and found I didn't have too. You did a good job keeping it at the 1000 ft level.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

9 hours ago I posted a YouTube short based on a video that went live today. My video has 6 views. The short has over 850. Not bad for a channel with 43 subs

 

[Gras]

It's climate change. Hippies aren't causing them, government mismanagement or conspiracies aren't causing them. They could both make things WORSE, sure. But they are not what's causing wildfires and they are not the reason for the increased frequency. It's because of climate change. I'd cite a study but really it's just "all of the largely agreed upon ones".

Climate change can't hurt me because I already died from the repeal of net neutrality.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

Climate change can't hurt me because I already died from the repeal of net neutrality.

Thanks a lot for reminding me of the existence of Ajit Pai. Gah. Makes me nauseous to just think of him.