Blue Jays Discussion: The official Davis Schneider Appreciation Society

[Puckstuff]

Chapman isn't gone. He won't accept the qualifying offer but I could see Atkins giving him an offer with player options. Definitely be some turn over but for the actual core of the franchise those guys outside of Chapman were never thought as long term pieces. I hope they use the deep pockets of the owners and continue to increase payroll personally.

I think we should move on from Chappy once he declines. I’ve been a “defence first” advocate for a while but after last season I have changed my mind. I would rather they spend the money on a premium middle of the order bat, if they can find one.

 

[WeThreeKings]

The fact they are after Michael Taylor, Joey Votto.. and are keeping Guillermo as hitting coach?

I'll pass.

 

[Bjindaho]

The fact they are after Michael Taylor, Joey Votto.. and are keeping Guillermo as hitting coach?

I'll pass.

Joey Votto is an interesting name. The last few years in Cincy, there has been no reason not to have only lefties face Votto. Their lineup has had an extreme skew and they seem to only be fixing it now. Adding him to a lineup that has some lefty mashers would be useful (as long as the coaching staff don't hit him behind all of them like Belt was).

If you look at the numbers, Guillermo was not the problem with the Jays last year. The team hit very well, but struggled in key situations (the overall hitting is Guillermo's job, whereas Hudgens was the hitting strategist that was supposed to guide the team through situational hitting).

 

[fancy lad]

The Blue Jays are playing with fire. Last year the fans showed up and did their part. The team didn't really show up.... they kind of did, but left a lot to be desired. And it all ended in a horrible epic fail manner.

Toronto baseball fans can be fickle and stay home. Management needs to do better than last year IMO. These managerial and coaching decisions are a bad sign and pretty worrying.

 

[Discoverer]

Joey Votto is an interesting name. The last few years in Cincy, there has been no reason not to have only lefties face Votto. Their lineup has had an extreme skew and they seem to only be fixing it now. Adding him to a lineup that has some lefty mashers would be useful (as long as the coaching staff don't hit him behind all of them like Belt was).

If you look at the numbers, Guillermo was not the problem with the Jays last year. The team hit very well, but struggled in key situations (the overall hitting is Guillermo's job, whereas Hudgens was the hitting strategist that was supposed to guide the team through situational hitting).

Oddly enough, Votto has pretty significant reverse splits the last two years (87 wRC+ vs RHP, 115 vs LHP).

I also don't have much of a problem with Martinez as the hitting coach. There was some offensive regression this year, but Martinez was also the hitting coach the previous couple seasons when they had no problem meeting or exceeding expectations.

Oddly enough, the one significant coaching move between the "great offense" 2021-22 teams and the "kind of underwhelming" 2023 team was bringing in Mattingly, and people seem thrilled with him getting more responsibility next year.

 

[BTO]

Awesome, Toronto finally got an NFL team! I don't pay attention to baseball as much as I used to, but WTF is an "offensive coordinator" in baseball?

 

[Bjindaho]

Awesome, Toronto finally got an NFL team! I don't pay attention to baseball as much as I used to, but WTF is an "offensive coordinator" in baseball?

I'm assuming that his job is to make sure that the hitting strategist, hitting coach, and hitting advisor's messages actually work together, so that you don't have a bunch of guys tangibly change their approach with RISP like we saw this year.

 

[GreytWun]

Ahh yes as expected the “everything is fine now that management didn’t make a move to bring in a new hitting coach”. Lol

 

[phillipmike]

Unless major on field moves are coming, this isnt a smart plan to bring everyone back. This is the Leafs 2.0.

Either everything you saw across 164 games was a lie from a hitting perspective or they are who they were last year and you are bringing everyone back.

 

[Bjindaho]

Unless major on field moves are coming, this isnt a smart plan to bring everyone back. This is the Leafs 2.0.

Either everything you saw across 164 games was a lie from a hitting perspective or they are who they were last year and you are bringing everyone back.

I don't think anyone can approach this offseason with anything other than trepidation.

Management is skirting an awfully fine line where things could get a lot worse.

The names that seem to be coming out from those around the Jays are either good complimentary pieces to bigger moves that they could do or absolute garbage moves that could take this team from playoff team to 4th or 5th in the division in a hurry.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Didn't Votto say once he didn't want to play in Toronto because of the distractions of being home?

 

[Discoverer]

Unless major on field moves are coming, this isnt a smart plan to bring everyone back. This is the Leafs 2.0.

Either everything you saw across 164 games was a lie from a hitting perspective or they are who they were last year and you are bringing everyone back.

Are you referring to the coaching staff or the roster?

If it's the latter, they're turning over a third of the starting lineup with a new starting 3B, CF, and DH.
It'll be important that they find solid replacements for those guys, but I think the key to the offense next season no matter what moves they make is going to be whether Vlad can get it together. If he's just another solid, above average bat like he was this year, it'll be tough again. If he's a legitimate middle of the order threat, it changes the whole lineup.

 

[phillipmike]

Are you referring to the coaching staff or the roster?

If it's the latter, they're turning over a third of the starting lineup with a new starting 3B, CF, and DH.
It'll be important that they find solid replacements for those guys, but I think the key to the offense next season no matter what moves they make is going to be whether Vlad can get it together. If he's just another solid, above average bat like he was this year, it'll be tough again. If he's a legitimate middle of the order threat, it changes the whole lineup.

Was referring to the coaching staff.

 

[Discoverer]

Was referring to the coaching staff.

Gotcha... I don't know how I feel about that. They were 7th in the league in wRC+ but only 14th in runs scored, suggesting the main issue last year was sequencing, which I would suggest is due to a combination of luck and, possibly, an issue with situational approach. As the "hitting strategist", Hudgens presumably played a huge role in the "situational hitting" part of it.

I think Hudgens being out and Mattingly stepping into what sounds like a lead role among the hitting coaches is a pretty significant change, despite Martinez still being there. The hitting coach position isn't what it once was where that's THE guy responsible for the offense - it seems like it's just one position as part of a team, and it's not even the lead position anymore.

 

[phillipmike]

Blue Jays Hope To Add Multiple Position Players This Offseason

Blue Jays general manager Ross Atkins spoke to the media at the GM Meetings in Scottsdale, Arizona, with Ben Nicholson-Smith …

www.mlbtraderumors.com

This is at least the 3rd time i have heard the Jays being interested in Amed Rosairo. BNS also mentioned Gio Urshela. Atkins confirms the Jays are interested in bringing Chapman back on a multi year deal.

Free agency features some potential solutions, such as Gio Urshela or Amed Rosario, though bringing Chapman back still seems to be on the table. Jon Heyman of The New York Post reports that Chapman is at the GM Meetings and has met with multiple teams, including the Jays.

Another name is Jeimer Candelario:

Shi Davidi of Sportsnet reports that the Jays met with Candelario’s reps at the GM meetings, indicating they are open to him as a Chapman replacement.

A new name is Eugenio Suarez:

On the trade front, Nicholson-Smith reports that third baseman Eugenio Suárez of the Mariners is one of the players they are interested in. It’s unknown if Seattle has openness to such a deal, but it seems possible. Mariners president of baseball operations Jerry Dipoto said yesterday that the club is looking to reduce the amount of strikeouts in the lineup and moving on from Suárez would certainly help in that department. Each of the past five seasons has ended with his strikeout rate near 30%, when the league average is usually in the 22-23% range.

I forgot to mention that i bumped into BNS on the street a day after the deadline and he said the M's had huge interest in Espinal and a deal of Espinal for Teo was discussed. He got the sense that if the Jays made the offer, the deal would have got done but the Jays were worried about Bo's injury.

I wonder if Espinal for Suarez is an option even though i dont like his swing and miss.

On Votto:

Another option that the Jays are open to is first baseman Joey Votto, who is now a free agent for the first time in his career after the Reds declined their 2024 club option. He has been a speculative fit for the Jays going back many years since he grew up in Etobicoke, which was amalgamated into Toronto in 1998. “Incredible player, remarkable career,” Atkins said of Votto. “They’re just massive impact in the community if he were to be a Toronto Blue Jay. So definitely something that we would have to consider if that was something he wanted to pursue.” Though he added that Votto’s reputation would lead to him finding interest outside of his stomping grounds. “Incredible reputation, really dynamic personality, really bright (person) that I know our team would embrace,” Atkins said. “But I think that’s the case for probably 15 teams.”

On Michael A. Taylor:

But Jon Morosi of MLB.com reports they are showing interest in free agent Michael A. Taylor. He’s a similar player to Kiermaier as both are considered excellent defensive center fielders but with lesser reputations on offense.

On Yamamoto:

Davidi adds that the Jays are interested in Japanese hurler Yoshinobu Yamamoto, with Atkins having gone to Japan to scout him three times this past year. They surely won’t be alone in that pursuit since Yamamoto is only 25 years old and has been one of the best pitchers in Japan for years, leading MLBTR to predict a contract of $225MM over nine years.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Are the annual GM meetings taking place earlier this year? Usually they happen in December, not right after the World Series. Or at least, that's how I recalled it being as such.

 

[Discoverer]

Are the annual GM meetings taking place earlier this year? Usually they happen in December, not right after the World Series. Or at least, that's how I recalled it being as such.

Two different things... GM Meetings normally take place this time of year. You're thinking of the Winter Meetings. Those are the exciting ones... GM Meetings are usually pretty boring.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Two different things... GM Meetings normally take place this time of year. You're thinking of the Winter Meetings. Those are the exciting ones... GM Meetings are usually pretty boring.

Ahhh....thanks!

I know the Winter Meetings is where the action usually takes place, so I was thinking we'd see some early action here.

These GM Meetings seem to be getting more fanfare and attention than I remember.

 

[landy92mack29]

Really weak FA class so maybe the Jays will go for the risky 30+ aging stars route if Bogaerts or Trout are being moved like rumoured. Trout needs out of LA but the Phillies seem like the logical spot for him. Jays kinda have to take the risk on something to bring in a impact bat so could do worse. Plus could shift him to LF/DH him more to keep him fresher. Would like to bring Chapman back also if it's around the 100 million mark for the contract. Kirk and pieces for the Naylors from Cleveland

RF-Springer
SS-Bichette
LF-Trout
1B-Guerrero
DH-Naylor
3B-Chapman
CF-Varsho
C-Jansen
2B-Biggio/Schneider

Naylor
Biggio/Schneider
Espinal
Taylor

 

[Suntouchable13]

Really weak FA class so maybe the Jays will go for the risky 30+ aging stars route if Bogaerts or Trout are being moved like rumoured. Trout needs out of LA but the Phillies seem like the logical spot for him. Jays kinda have to take the risk on something to bring in a impact bat so could do worse. Plus could shift him to LF/DH him more to keep him fresher. Would like to bring Chapman back also if it's around the 100 million mark for the contract. Kirk and pieces for the Naylors from Cleveland

RF-Springer
SS-Bichette
LF-Trout
1B-Guerrero
DH-Naylor
3B-Chapman
CF-Varsho
C-Jansen
2B-Biggio/Schneider

Naylor
Biggio/Schneider
Espinal
Taylor

I am torn on Chappy. I like him as a defender, and as a solid leader but his bat is frustrating. Can't stand watching his at bats. I think he should be batting 7th in a good lineup. No higher

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Puckstuff]

Blue Jays Hope To Add Multiple Position Players This Offseason

Blue Jays general manager Ross Atkins spoke to the media at the GM Meetings in Scottsdale, Arizona, with Ben Nicholson-Smith …

www.mlbtraderumors.com

This is at least the 3rd time i have heard the Jays being interested in Amed Rosairo. BNS also mentioned Gio Urshela. Atkins confirms the Jays are interested in bringing Chapman back on a multi year deal.



Another name is Jeimer Candelario:



A new name is Eugenio Suarez:



I forgot to mention that i bumped into BNS on the street a day after the deadline and he said the M's had huge interest in Espinal and a deal of Espinal for Teo was discussed. He got the sense that if the Jays made the offer, the deal would have got done but the Jays were worried about Bo's injury.

I wonder if Espinal for Suarez is an option even though i dont like his swing and miss.

On Votto:



On Michael A. Taylor:



On Yamamoto:

Yamamoto would be an enormous get and it seems like there’s some very real interest with this. If they had a front four of Yamamoto, Gausman, Berrios and Bassit it would leave the possibility of trading Manoah for a cost controlled bat or moving Kikuchi's salary for a bat.

 

[BTO]

I'm assuming that his job is to make sure that the hitting strategist, hitting coach, and hitting advisor's messages actually work together, so that you don't have a bunch of guys tangibly change their approach with RISP like we saw this year.

The hitting coach, hitting strategist and hitting advisor? Is that all? What about analysts and consultants? Not enough cooks stirring the pot here imo. Why only have 3 voices in the players’ heads when you can have 6?

As I said, I don’t follow baseball as much as I used to and so I am, apparently, unfamiliar with the MBA approach to baseball, so I’m not sure if you’re being serious or not, because it sure reads like satire to me. So please tell me you were being facetious (please). Dear lord, I watch sports to ignore work, not to have work imported into sports. f***ing bean counters all!

 

[Bjindaho]

The hitting coach, hitting strategist and hitting advisor? Is that all? What about analysts and consultants? Not enough cooks stirring the pot here imo. Why only have 3 voices in the players’ heads when you can have 6?

As I said, I don’t follow baseball as much as I used to and so I am, apparently, unfamiliar with the MBA approach to baseball, so I’m not sure if you’re being serious or not, because it sure reads like satire to me. So please tell me you were being facetious (please). Dear lord, I watch sports to ignore work, not to have work imported into sports. f***ing bean counters all!

No, the Blue Jays have a handful of guys who work with hitters and they don't seem to provide uniform messaging (see: the Jays doing well overall but absolutely dropping off a cliff in high leverage situations).

 

[BTO]

No, the Blue Jays have a handful of guys who work with hitters and they don't seem to provide uniform messaging (see: the Jays doing well overall but absolutely dropping off a cliff in high leverage situations).

Used to be a hitting coach and a manager. Now it’s actuarials. Perhaps why I don’t follow baseball as much as I used to.