Blue Jays Discussion: The official Davis Schneider Appreciation Society

[Kiwi]

If you told me this 3 days ago, I would laugh in your face.

Understandable

Things were pretty bloody grim a few days ago, that Rangers series was like getting kicked in the pills with a steel toed boot

 

[phillipmike]

This is one of the strangest weeks I've ever seen following a sports team.

The Jays get swept in a 4-game series against their biggest playoff rival ... and at the end of the week, it doesn't even really matter. Texas 4-3 in their last 7, Toronto 3-4, Seattle 2-5.

The team had maybe their most disastrous regular season series since 1987, and actually are in a better playoff position today than they were last Sunday. Absolutely nuts.

Yeah it’s such a weird season. Watch the Braves get bounced in the DS or CS and 2 WC teams get to CS like last year. It all doesn’t make sense.

 

[Discoverer]

Yep, just a crazy week of baseball. The Jays going 3-0 this weekend while the other Wild Card competition went 1-8 is such an unexpectedly amazing result, especially with a couple of them playing pretty bad opponents.

 

[Dr.Funk]

 

[Vector]

 

[cyris]

Jays are in a good spot for the playoffs. Texas and Seattle play each other 7 more times.

I hope one of them sweeps the other. It would likely move the winning team ahead of us and the loser would be all but done.

Probably not likely but it is the ideal scenario.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Offensively Jays are still having trouble but it's good to see Vlad start to heat up. This weekend the pitching and defence was back to an elite level after uncharacteristically getting smacked around by Texas.

 

[phillipmike]

Was looking at the Jays best drafts in their history and 3 rose to the top;

1982:
David Wells: 53.4 bWAR
Jimmy Key: 48.9 bWAR
Pat Borders: 3.6 bWAR

1989:
John Olerud: 58.2 bWAR
Jeff Kent: 55.5 bWAR

1997:
Orlando Hudson: 30.9 bWAR
Vernon Wells: 28.6 bWAR
Michael Young: 24.7 bWAR

I would have never guessed that the O-Dog had a higher career WAR than Wells and Young. That Young for Loaizia trade set the Jays back decades. Jays could have been a playoff team from 2003 to 2009 with Young playing SS for you instead of Chris Woodward, Chris Gomez, Russ Adams, John Macdonald and David Eckstein.

David Wells a very good career. Key was extremely underrated and still doesnt get enough love. I guess 1989 has to be the best with a HoFer in Kent and Olerud who could be one himself.

If anyone is wondering, should go as no surprise, Halladay is the Jays best draft pick ever with 65.4 bWAR.

 

[phillipmike]

Offensively Jays are still having trouble but it's good to see Vlad start to heat up. This weekend the pitching and defence was back to an elite level after uncharacteristically getting smacked around by Texas.

Although the offense hasnt been great the premise mostly holds true - Jays will win if Vladdy shows up. Jays won 3 games vs Boston but they easily could have lost all 3.

Friday: Jays win 3-0 - All 3 runs supplied by Vladdy with his 3 run shot.
Saturday: Jays win 4-3 - Sale was unhittable. Vladdy got on base 3 times vs him with 2 walks and eventually got the first hit of the game vs Sale in the 7th with a HR which kicked Sale out of the game. He was placed at 2B and scored the winning run. Vladdy walked 3 times and got 2 hits this game.

Now imagine if Bo and Vladdy show up.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Was looking at the Jays best drafts in their history and 3 rose to the top;

1982:
David Wells: 53.4 bWAR
Jimmy Key: 48.9 bWAR
Pat Borders: 3.6 bWAR

1989:
John Olerud: 58.2 bWAR
Jeff Kent: 55.5 bWAR

1997:
Orlando Hudson: 30.9 bWAR
Vernon Wells: 28.6 bWAR
Michael Young: 24.7 bWAR

I would have never guessed that the O-Dog had a higher career WAR than Wells and Young. That Young for Loaizia trade set the Jays back decades. Jays could have been a playoff team from 2003 to 2009 with Young playing SS for you instead of Chris Woodward, Chris Gomez, Russ Adams, John Macdonald and David Eckstein.

David Wells a very good career. Key was extremely underrated and still doesnt get enough love. I guess 1989 has to be the best with a HoFer in Kent and Olerud who could be one himself.

If anyone is wondering, should go as no surprise, Halladay is the Jays best draft pick ever with 65.4 bWAR.

Interesting. Would you put Orlando Hudson on your all time Jays team?

 

[EpochLink]

Dodgers clinching the title tonight isn’t great news. They’re probably gonna rest a bunch of starters tomorrow.

Dodgers want that first seed and some rest, they are not far off from Atlanta

 

[Discoverer]

Interesting. Would you put Orlando Hudson on your all time Jays team?

If he played all/most of his career in Toronto, I think you could argue it. But he was only here for a few years, so at best he would probably be something like the third best 2B behind Alomar and Hill.

 

[Suntouchable13]

If he played all/most of his career in Toronto, I think you could argue it. But he was only here for a few years, so at best he would probably be something like the third best 2B behind Alomar and Hill.

Yea, I would agree with that. He had some good seasons in Arizona after being traded for Troy Glaus. Probably where most of that WAR comes from

 

[ShaneFalco]

Jays are in a good spot for the playoffs. Texas and Seattle play each other 7 more times.

I didn't realize this - awesome!

 

[phillipmike]

 

[Da Cool Rula]

If he played all/most of his career in Toronto, I think you could argue it. But he was only here for a few years, so at best he would probably be something like the third best 2B behind Alomar and Hill.

Honourable mention: Damaso Garcia

 

[LaP]

Although the offense hasnt been great the premise mostly holds true - Jays will win if Vladdy shows up. Jays won 3 games vs Boston but they easily could have lost all 3.

Friday: Jays win 3-0 - All 3 runs supplied by Vladdy with his 3 run shot.
Saturday: Jays win 4-3 - Sale was unhittable. Vladdy got on base 3 times vs him with 2 walks and eventually got the first hit of the game vs Sale in the 7th with a HR which kicked Sale out of the game. He was placed at 2B and scored the winning run. Vladdy walked 3 times and got 2 hits this game.

Now imagine if Bo and Vladdy show up.

I think you still need a 3rd guy to show up. Vasrho has been good lately too and Chapman/Biggio were good last game. As much as Vlad has been underwhelming and as much as Bo struggled since he came back i feel like one of the biggest problem for the offense was the lack on consistency behind them. There was long stretch during this season where nothing was happening once the opposing pitcher was past the top 3. If the team want to go far Varsho has to be more consistent, Kirk has to wake up from his long hibernation and Chapman has to be better than he has been since his hot start.

 

[Canada4Gold]

View attachment 744014

10% to start the season for the O's seems low. I thought they were above Boston. They had a great end to last year and while the roster still looks rather meh, feels like it should have been like 30% with Boston at 20%

 

[cyris]

Interesting. Would you put Orlando Hudson on your all time Jays team?

Well the team has a HoF 2B but he is a scumbag.
If you want to ignore the off field stuff Alomar plays second on any all time jays list.

If you can’t ignore that then it’s a pretty wide open debate that Hudson would certainly be pat of.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

 

[Dr.Funk]

 

[Leafs1991]

WOW! He struck out 76 hitters out of 172? That's insane numbers.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

 

[Lightsol]

We're talking about moves that were made or not made as it relate to the team's problems THIS SEASON, and now you're floating off into some pointless future debate. Replacing Kirk with Moreno changes nothing for this team right now.

By the way, Moreno also doesn't hit for much power, and in fact Kirk's career ISO (.132) is actually right in line with Moreno's ISO this season (.131). So once again I'll repeat: the question for the FO is what was the cause of Kirk's massive regression this year. He was a fat, slow tub of lard in 2022 and 2021 as well - and he was a 129 wRC+ hitter last season.

Kirk: grounded into 20 double plays (in 374 plate appearances)
Moreno: grounded into 14 double plays (in 326 plate appearances)

Even the double plays aren't some massive swing. Scale Moreno up into 375 plate appearances and he's likely up to ~16 double plays. Just 4 fewer than Kirk.

That's what I've been asking for the last few months; what EXACTLY happened back there to cause every bat on this team that's been here for more than 3 months to drop off the face of the Earth? How haven't the hitting coaches been fired yet? Because if it's not either the hitting coaches or some kind of dumbass strategy, then we have to accept that the entire team just forgot how to hit in a year, and that seems highly unlikely.

 

[canucksfan]

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