The Official 2023 Hall of Fame Ballot - Update: Scott Rolen the only one going to the HOF

[AtlantaWhaler]

The issue is how many Cooperstown inductees had drop offs like that? His production literally declined by about 50%.



Pujols still managed roughly 15 WAR in the post-STL years, far from world beating but he wasn't a negative value player every year. He also had Seven 90+ RBI & three 30 HR years in that time frame - which are a bonus for the counting stats crowd.

Regardless, as others here have stated, his time in STL made him an indisputable hall of famer. There was 0 debate by the time he played his last inning as a Card (at that time).

Again...I totally agree on Pujols. He's in. His first 10 years were amazing and HOF worthy.

Point is...He's been below average for the last 10 years. A HUGE sample size and about half of his career (and has been a DH for a lot of that time). Like Pujols, Jones until 06 was HOF worthy without a doubt.

 

[Voight]

Again...I totally agree on Pujols. He's in. His first 10 years were amazing and HOF worthy.

Point is...He's been below average for the last 10 years. A HUGE sample size and about half of his career (and has been a DH for a lot of that time). Like Pujols, Jones until 06 was HOF worthy without a doubt.

He didn't have an ironclad case. Pujols for example has the MVPs, the Silver Sluggers etc and he was worth about 78 WAR during that time. Jones was worth 63 or so WAR in his first 10 years - a good number but thats not exactly HOF lock territory.

Regardless voters are likely holding the fact that his production was literally cut in half. Pujols regressed too but he still had some decent offensive numbers so his "fall" does not look as severe.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

The issue is how many Cooperstown inductees had drop offs like that? His production literally declined by about 50%.

Because of injuries? Plenty of them. It's been lost over the years, but the main driver behind Jones's post Atlanta drop off is injuries, his games played after Atlanta were 75, 82, 107, 77, 94.

 

[Canes]

The issue is how many Cooperstown inductees had drop offs like that? His production literally declined by about 50%.

I've already addressed that. But how many Cooperstown inductees had the career start that Andruw Jones had? He literally went a decade being basically the best CF in baseball along with putting solid offensive stats. Not just solid for his position but good enough to play almost anywhere, but he played Gold Glove defense in one of the most difficult defensive positions for a decade while doing it. We're not talking about a guy with 1000 hits or 250 HRs at the plate.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

 

[Terry Yake]

thought mcgriff would go with ATL but not surprised that he's choosing to go in without a logo. i guess TB wasn't able to pay him under the table to go in as a devil ray

 

[EpochLink]

I thought for sure he would go in as a Braves player. Loved him on the Blue Jays back on the day.

 

[BobColesNasalCavity]

Only 4 players in history have finished their career with at least 250 HR, 400 SB, , 2400 hits, and a 125 OPS+

Barry Bonds, Rickey Henderson, Joe Morgan, and... Bobby Abreu

It can certainly help gives us a greater appreciation for a player's career when we see they've achieved a career total in a few different categories that very few have

But should 400+ HR and 10+ Gold Gloves alone warrant induction? Those milestones could be achieved by a player who finishes their career with a .250 OBP, and 0.0 WAR. And while Gold Gloves look nice on a resume, it's an award that has often been heavily influenced by reputation or perception, and does nothing to provide us with the actual defensive value a player brought to their team

In fact, given how frequently throughout history the voters were negligent in their duties to identify the most deserving player, I don't know why we continue to assign any meaningful value to awards which are determined by their vote

I mean he was overshadowed by the guys who were using steroids. His 2000 season is a good example. Hit .303 with a .366 on-base percentage, 122 runs scored, 36 home runs, 104 RBI, 21 stolen bases, and a slugging percentage of .541 with a Gold Glove. Finished 8th in MVP voting. 8th. Guys who finished ahead of him. Jeff Kent, Barry Bonds, Mike Piazza, Jim Edmonds, Todd Helton, Vladimir Guerrero, and Jeff Bagwell. Four suspected PED users and the rest, 3 in the HOF with Helton close this year.

Not basing his career off one year but just feel like Jones could’ve won some hardware and maybe gotten some more recognition if it wasn’t for the PED era. Guy was elite for a decade.

 

[GKJ]

Doesn’t the Hall really make the call here?

 

[Cas]

Doesn’t the Hall really make the call here?

Has been since the Boggs debacle.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

thought mcgriff would go with ATL but not surprised that he's choosing to go in without a logo. i guess TB wasn't able to pay him under the table to go in as a devil ray

That’s where I remember him from. Back when tbs showed every Braves game nationally.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

That’s where I remember him from. Back when tbs showed every Braves game nationally.

If he went in with a cap, it probably would have been ATL but TOR would have been a solid option too. He played all over in his career.

Here's his GP by team

ATL - 636
TOR - 578
TB - 577
SDP - 388
CHC - 195
LAD - 95

He played for Atlanta sliiiightly longer than in Toronto and he did win a ring there, but he had his best and most productive years in Toronto with San Diego being a close 2nd.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

If he went in with a cap, it probably would have been ATL but TOR would have been a solid option too. He played all over in his career.

Here's his GP by team

ATL - 636
TOR - 578
TB - 577
SDP - 388
CHC - 195
LAD - 95

He played for Atlanta sliiiightly longer than in Toronto and he did win a ring there, but he had his best and most productive years in Toronto with San Diego being a close 2nd.

I never got to watch him in those places the same way I did when he was in Atlanta. I’ll also remember him for the hitting instruction video he endorsed lol.

 

[Terry Yake]

I never got to watch him in those places the same way I did when he was in Atlanta. I’ll also remember him for the hitting instruction video he endorsed lol.