The Official 2023 Hall of Fame Ballot - Update: Scott Rolen the only one going to the HOF

[Marc the Habs Fan]

As someone who saw a ton of the Braves (I had TBS during those years and obviously the Expos played the Braves a bunch), in my view Andruw Jones should definitely be in the HOF. Incredible talent for a solid decade. He should get in.

Helton should get in next year based on this vote.

 

[GKJ]

Gotta wonder the what if's for Rolen if he did stay. The Phillies were building something in the mid to late 2000's with Howard, Utley and Rollins. Well both parties turned out well for each other, both got rings and they were pretty consistent.

I liked Rolen when he was with the Jays, solid player.

I think he would’ve been moved anyways. Pat Gillick came in and turned the room over to Jimmy Rollins. Rolen was 33 when the Phillies won the World Series.

 

[Terry Yake]

Sorry, but in what world is Scott Rolen a HOF'er but Andruw Jones isnt?

Nothing about Rolen's career screams Hall of Fame except his 8 Gold Gloves, Jones has 10

Yeah its not exact, but the baseball reference HOF monitor for them:

Metric	Rolen	Jones
Black Ink	0	10
Gray Ink	27	47
HOF Monitor	99	109
HOF Standards	40	34
WAR	70.1	62.7
6 yr peak WAR	43.6	46.4
WAR per 162 games	5.6	4.6

sorry but if jim edmonds fell off the ballot after one year, jones doesn't deserve to be in the HOF

 

[Halladay]

My favorite player when I was a little kid, my second favorite I would learn to come was a wannabe NAZI . Those Phillies teams in the mid to late 90s were rough. Started getting better in 2001 when JRoll came up and Bowa took over.

 

[Cas]

sorry but if jim edmonds fell off the ballot after one year, jones doesn't deserve to be in the HOF

I wouldn't advocate judging a player on the basis of a mistake related to a different player.

 

[Canes]

Andruw Jones is one of the best center fielders of all time. Yes, he had a steep drop off in production at the end of his career. But I don't even know what to say at this point.

 

[Blitzkrug]

It's pretty obvious as to why Jones isn't in and i don't think i need to point it out.

The key is if you're going to do something stupid, do it *after* you get inducted to the hall.

I was also unaware Edmonds fell off the ballot only after a year. That seems a bit...criminal?

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Jones is one of four players in baseball history to hit 400 home runs and win 10 Gold Gloves — the other three are Hall of Famers Willie Mays, Ken Griffey Jr. and Mike Schmidt.

I have a pretty obvious bias, but it's stupid he's not in.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Jones and Edmonds are in the same tier for me. They are edge HOF caliber, I'd be fine putting both in, but wouldn't die on the hill if people leave them out.

 

[Mongo]

It's pretty obvious as to why Jones isn't in and i don't think i need to point it out.

The key is if you're going to do something stupid, do it *after* you get inducted to the hall.

I was also unaware Edmonds fell off the ballot only after a year. That seems a bit...criminal?

What did Jones do? I gave up on baseball during the Steroid scandal. But I grew up watching baseball (born in 81) and A. Jones and Griffey were the best CFs in that time period and Jones was the best CF defensively by far. Jones has a 24.4 Defensive WAR which is good for 22nd in MLB history. Edmonds while still really good doesn't even come close to that and given that their offensive stats are fairly similar, I'm not even sure how Edmonds can be thought of as an equal.

Edit: Full disclosure, I am partially biased because I would spend summers in Georgia and my grandfather would bring me down to the games @ foulton county stadium and Turner field a few times every summer in the early 90s so I became a fan of the braves while also being a red sox fan. Between that and always seeing the Braves on TBS, I was able to watch a lot of Braves baseball, so I saw way more of Andruw Jones lurking behind 2nd base and running down flyballs to the warning track than Edmonds.

But I did eat, sleep, and breath baseball before I stopped watching. After doing homework I would study the baseball encyclopedia and just take in everything possible for baseball. I would not talk about anything else except baseball (and hockey) when I was a kid and teenager. Got to love the autistic powers I possess!

 

[Unholy Diver]

Jones is one of four players in baseball history to hit 400 home runs and win 10 Gold Gloves — the other three are Hall of Famers Willie Mays, Ken Griffey Jr. and Mike Schmidt.

I have a pretty obvious bias, but it's stupid he's not in.

That is a great group, but he is so far below those guys in pretty much every stat besides Gold Gloves

Jones was very good, a borderline HOF guy, him falling off a cliff at age 30 is working against him

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

That is a great group, but he is so far below those guys in pretty much every stat besides Gold Gloves

Jones was very good, a borderline HOF guy, him falling off a cliff at age 30 is working against him

Too much is being put on the last few years of his career. From 2001-2006, he averaged 38 HR and 110 RBI a year while winning a Gold Glove in each of those seasons. He's arguably the greatest defensive outfielder in the history of the sport.

Saw this tweet as well:

Seasons with at least 25 home runs and 25 defensive runs saved as a centerfielder: Andruw Jones - 4 The other 19,901 players in history combined - 2

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I grew up hating the Braves and Andruw Jones, but what a dominant 10 year start to his career. As others mentioned, a super steep fall off afterwards. Him and Edmonds should both be in.

Helton I could take or leave. To me he was a really good player but his home/road splits are pretty severe. Like we has still a totally fine player on the road but those numbers aren't HOF worthy at all. His home numbers are bonkers good, as is the case with many Rockies.

Like I'm OK with him getting in but there's a lot of other guys that should be in there before him.

Also, going back to Edmonds. Unbelievable that him and Lofton got bounced from the ballot after one year. Same with Delgado. I don't probably have Carlos in my HOF but they all deserved a much better HOF vote.

 

[Mongo]

That is a great group, but he is so far below those guys in pretty much every stat besides Gold Gloves

Jones was very good, a borderline HOF guy, him falling off a cliff at age 30 is working against him

It's not like he is Omar Vizquel and couldn't hit at all. He still hit over 400 homeruns and drove in 1200 runs to go along with being the best statistical defensive CF of all time (by a good margin and even if you don't truly believe the advance statistics, it's hard to dismiss him as not being one of the best of his generation by the eye test. He may have fallen off a cliff in his las 4-5 seasons, but he still was the best CF for a decade.

 

[Unholy Diver]

Jones defensive metrics blow every other outfileder out of the water. He is ahead in runs saved by

It's not like he is Omar Vizquel and couldn't hit at all. He still hit over 400 homeruns and drove in 1200 runs to go along with being the best statistical defensive CF of all time (by a good margin and even if you don't truly believe the advance statistics, it's hard to dismiss him as not being one of the best of his generation by the eye test. He may have fallen off a cliff in his las 4-5 seasons, but he still was the best CF for a decade.

I'm not saying he wasn't a very good player, even great at times, but he is not on a level with Mays, Schmidt, and Griffey

Mays speaks for himself, he is a top 3-5 player all time, if not top overal

Schmidt was a 3X MVP, 10X GG and 12X AS 106.8 WAR and 148 OPS+

Griffey 1X MVP 10X GG 13X AS 630 HR 83.8 WAR and 136 OPS+


Jones 1 MVP runner up 10X GG 5X AS 62.7 WAR 111 OPS+

I wouldn't be against him being in the HOF, but he would not be in the same conversation as Griffey/Schmidt/Mays in any way other than the random pairing of 10GG and 400 HR, which will likely find a new member in Arrenado in 3-4 years

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

If the last few years of Jones's career is what keeps him out of the Hall, then does Pujols get in?

 

[Unholy Diver]

If the last few years of Jones's career is what keeps him out of the Hall, then does Pujols get in?

Probably by the Veterans Committee

 

[Cas]

If the last few years of Jones's career is what keeps him out of the Hall, then does Pujols get in?

Never assume consistency in the BBWAA electorate. Pujols will sail in with 98% of the vote.

Pujols was also of course a much better player.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Never assume consistency in the BBWAA electorate. Pujols will sail in with 98% of the vote.

Pujols was also of course a much better player.

Consistency...ha. I would never assume such a thing.

Pujols has also been a .250 hitter the last 10 seasons, half of his career.

 

[EpochLink]

If the last few years of Jones's career is what keeps him out of the Hall, then does Pujols get in?

Pujoles is going in first ballot, his first 11 years of body work was one of the best in the league at the time.

 

[Cas]

Pujoles is going in first ballot, his first 11 years of body work was one of the best in the league at the time.

His first 11 years were one of the best of all time. Those years alone pretty much have Pujols competing with Gehrig and Foxx for best among first basemen in all of the sport's history.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Pujoles is going in first ballot, his first 11 years of body work was one of the best in the league at the time.

...and I agree.

I just don't think the dropoff of Jones the last few years should define his career. Just like Albert.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Pujols was an 86.6 WAR player in those first 11 seasons in St. Louis. He could've retired then and been an automatic HOFer. Jones' first half of his career wasn't on that level.

It's not that Jones' back half is a negative on his resume, it's that his front-half isn't so good that it outweighs the lack on longevity in his resume. If he had a few more good years, he'd go from fringe HOF to solid HOF.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

I grew up hating the Braves and Andruw Jones, but what a dominant 10 year start to his career. As others mentioned, a super steep fall off afterwards. Him and Edmonds should both be in.

Helton I could take or leave. To me he was a really good player but his home/road splits are pretty severe. Like we has still a totally fine player on the road but those numbers aren't HOF worthy at all. His home numbers are bonkers good, as is the case with many Rockies.

Like I'm OK with him getting in but there's a lot of other guys that should be in there before him.

Also, going back to Edmonds. Unbelievable that him and Lofton got bounced from the ballot after one year. Same with Delgado. I don't probably have Carlos in my HOF but they all deserved a much better HOF vote.

Edmonds and Lofton were victims of a crowded ballot and the stupid 10 vote limit. If they were on the ballot today they'd probably be in line with Jones vote trajectory.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Pujols was an 86.6 WAR player in those first 11 seasons in St. Louis. He could've retired then and been an automatic HOFer. Jones' first half of his career wasn't on that level.

It's not that Jones' back half is a negative on his resume, it's that his front-half isn't so good that it outweighs the lack on longevity in his resume. If he had a few more good years, he'd go from fringe HOF to solid HOF.

This is where we disagree. I just don't see how 10 GG's, 10 seasons of putting up 26+ homers, over 400 for his career, and always discussed as being at least a top-3 best defensive outfielder of all time isn't enough.