The path out of mediocrity isn't just down the Bedard and Celebrini road. Ask Edmonton.
HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread
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Habs would have to do worst than the teams currently at the bottom against the rest of the leagues to make it into the top 7. They have won all their games against that "top 7 bad" so far this season which gives them a cushion against falling too low (or picking high).
And since the Habs have barely played against their own division in the first half of the season, that means they have room to move in it. And they end the season with a back-to-back against Detroit, which might turn into two must win for a playoffs berth or two most lose for the 10th pick...
SlafySZN
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- May 21, 2022
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I appreciate the positive, like Slaf coming along and i can’t wait for Caufield to find his scoring touch back once and for all. But i kind of agree with Gravity too, they win useless games because of the Savard, Matheson, Anderson, ect… who are not important players for us going forward.
Building a winning culture is part of the development process. These kids need to experience that culture during their development.
The vets you mentioned are hugely important and will be instrumental in getting these kids to another level.
Maybe I am wrong and we should rebuild like Buffalo and Edmonton have.
Unlike the 30 years of mediocrity by the Habs...
Chicago has won Cups using a similar strategy and would bet they will become Cup contenders before MTL.
Team_Spirit
95% Elliotte
- Jul 3, 2002
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Twisted Sinister
Living in Your Head Rent Free
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Canadiens98
Registered User
- Jan 29, 2021
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We're winning games with a top line of Slaf-Suzuki-Caufield and Newhook, Dach being out long term.
With our current group it looks like we're setting an internal cap which should allow for us to be much deeper going forward than Chicago (for ex.) .. At least in theory.
With our current group it looks like we're setting an internal cap which should allow for us to be much deeper going forward than Chicago (for ex.) .. At least in theory.
HuGort
Registered User
Look at Crosby, MacKinnon, Hedman or Kane though,? It's a combination of good scouting and coaching.
Sorinth
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- Jan 18, 2013
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Anderson scoring a key goal in a game we win doesn't mean he won the game for us though. Without Anderson then Ylonen would probably get his minutes and score just as many key goals as an example. For Matheson, out of his 19 points, only 4 have come without one of Suzuki, Caufield, Newhook, Barron, or Slafkovksy getting a point on the play. So it's really not as black and white as seeing a vet make a good/key play and saying we won a useless game thanks to a guy who won't be here in 5 years.
Gravity
Generational Poster
What is black and white is the Habs haven't had a star F in 30 years, entered a true rebuild for the first time and effectively came out without one. That's tragic comedy at its finest.
I hope Slaf can become that because as much as I like having solid depth, you can't win without a star F and this team is only going to get better.
I hope Slaf can become that because as much as I like having solid depth, you can't win without a star F and this team is only going to get better.
Sorinth
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- Jan 18, 2013
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Depends how you define star, if we are talking O'Reilly/Eichel/Stone level stars then I think there's a good chance that we have guys who reach that level and they proven you can win a cup.
salbutera
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- Sep 10, 2019
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Gravity
Generational Poster
I guess Hischier is a star then.
Eichel is better than any C we've had in 30+ years and it's not even close.
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The Great Weal
Phil's Pizza
- Jan 15, 2015
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Eichel/Stone are definitely stars and vastly better than anyone we have, they are PPG 2way beasts. Suzuki can become that ROR type player, but we'd still need the star dman like Pietrangelo and of course a goalie that can play lights out like how Binnington did. I feel like the Blues proved how their way of winning the cup was an anomaly as they have won 1 playoff series since then. Of course I'd take an anomaly cup over nothing, but I'd like to be a team that consistently competes for a cup and that doesn't happen without star players.
salbutera
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Yet he couldn’t help Buf move forward into the playoffs in his peak years
BTW - Eichel just missed PPG last season while playing on a vastly superior TEAM
As the Habs TEAM grows & improves so will Suzuki’s stats…. because individual stats is all that seems to matter to some
How many playoff series have star studded teams like Edm, Leafs, NJD won?
- Jan 18, 2022
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He just came back from a major neck injury! He got 66 in 67 and and went above ppg in the playoffs with 26 in 22. What's with the disingenuity? He's clearly a PPG player, and a very very good player overall.
The Great Weal
Phil's Pizza
- Jan 15, 2015
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How many teams won a cup without a top 10 dman/forward/goalie in the league? Unless you’re content with being mediocre and winning the odd playoff series here and there like the Wild.
Habs closest comp would be St-Louis.
Carolina and Winnipeg had strong rosters without all star talents (although Aho and Scheifele are above Suzuki)
To be fair, we haven’t come out of the rebuild yet so we don’t know. There was no franchise or generational star (and what I mean is a highly coveted and touted superstar BEFORE the draft) in 2022.
Of course, we know all about Bedard, but while I think Fantilli and Carlsson could be great, we don’t know. It’s sorta irrelevant since we picked #5 anyways. Sure, we can argue we shoulda “tanked” harder but we were pretty shit last year and other teams were tanking also.
This year, we’re like last in regulation wins. I‘ve complained many times about our lame SO/OT wins and loser points but hey, at least we’e competing and this should satisfy people who are concerned about us having a losing culture. That said, I’m sure this unsustainable coming from behind and goalies channelling Carey Price is eventually gonna give.
That said, I don’t see how anyone can not be excited about Hutson. Sure, he’s a defender but he checks off almost every quality you look for in an “out of your seat superstar.”
If Guhle and Reinbacher hit their ceilings, our blueline would be looking pretty sweet. I’m not sold on Suzuki and Caufield being PPG players so I’ll give you that, but I do think Dach can be that true #1C. I get it, he’s not an Eichel, but with the hope they hit their ceilings, 14, 22, 77 and 20 can be very solid top-6 players.
Sure, I want more scoring up front but we aren’t anywhere near the end of our rebuild. I know some delusional people here expect playoffs next season or the one after but they’re out to lunch. We may get that ridiculous forward this year or next, or maybe somebody we already drafted will surprise us.
If Hughes and co. do it right, the tanking should be done after this season. I actually don’t think the intent was to tank this season anyways, though given Dach is gone and we should be selling Monahan, we may as well tank. Then the next two seasons, it should be about outcomes. What I mean is we should see progression with our prospects and potential stars as well as an evolution in coaching. Still expect a lot of losing next season, but if we can be a 90-point team in 2026, that should start putting us on the road as playoff contenders, and hopefully cup contenders soon after.
Sorinth
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- Jan 18, 2013
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Eichel and Stone are essentially borderline ppg players, sometimes a little above, sometimes a little below, and yes Stone does bring more then just the points but that's less true with Eichel. Suzuki can absolutely reach their levels if he isn't there already (Which is debateable) and like Stone he also brings more then just points, and we have others that could quite easily join that tier of star forward.
There's no one recipe to building a contender. If we don't have the goal scoring up front to go toe to toe with some other star laden team, we might make up for it with goals from the backend. We were tops in the league not too long ago and might still be, and in the future it looks like it could very well be a team strength.
Consistently competitive is very subjective, as I'm pretty sure Leaf fans/media have considered them contenders for quite some time despite the 1 playoff series win. It's also worth noting even the star laden teams that win often have some random depth guy with a crazy playoff run that they can't ever repeat like Brian Bickell having 17 points and being 2nd on the team in playoff scoring in 2012-2013 for one of Chicago's cup win.
salbutera
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- Sep 10, 2019
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The Avs despite all their firepower kept getting bounced in the playoffs… that’s if they even made it, till Makar joined them.
Hedman was arguably TBay most important playoff player (along w Vasilevsky), Pietrangelo w both STL and VGK.
What those teams all had the likes of Edm, Leafs , NJD all lack is a true minute eating 1D.
Habs have the makings of a very strong group of D - some of those assets can be turned into offensive help.
Ceiling for many of those young D is still in discovery phase… patience
Sorinth
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Eichel is a very good player but the reality is he's good for 75 - 90 points if healthy (Which is a big if for him so far), Suzuki can likely put up similar numbers if he got anywhere close to the goal support from his teammates that Eichel gets. And on top of that Suzuki is way ahead in terms of having a complete game.
Eichel has proven he can put up those numbers and Suzuki hasn't which does mean something, but Suzuki having the next highest guy sitting at 38 points makes any point comparisons apples to oranges to begin with.
Habs are playing 6 games in the next 10 days (starting tomorrow) in 5 different cities and outside of Buffalo, the other teams ranks higher than the Habs.
That's favorable scheduling for the tankers.
That's favorable scheduling for the tankers.
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