HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

[WeThreeKings]

You are underestimating how bad we are. The team is playing hard so games are close but the lack of talent is just staggering.

All 3 of the 4 teams below us last year got better this year compared to the Habs.

We've had our record massively inflated because of OT wins.

I don't think I'm underestimating how bad we are.. there's just an unlikely event where they catch SJS. Then it will take a lot of negative things to happen to also be worse than Nashville and Chicago.

Then you've just got a lot of mid teams - Calgary, CBJ, Seattle, Buffalo, and Philly.. and some other teams like Edmonton, Ottawa and Minnesota who have had poor starts that only have so much time to get back on track.

We will be around where we need to be and that's what matters.

This team certainly belongs in bottom 10. With Dach injured, bottom 5 is probably assured.
If lottery doesn't go our way to force us to draft Celebrini or Eiserman I can say only this : God help us with Bobrov's pick.

Bobrov isn't the only person making the pick #1 and I don't think a 'god help us' is even necessary.

We know at least one high ranking Habs scout really likes Demidov.
Catton is in a tier of his own among forwards after the top 3 and is even challenging Demidov at this point.

Unless we pick too low, we should be walking out with one of Celebrini, Eiserman, Demidov or Catton.

 

[rahad]

Even Engels knows they are trading Monahan if he's healthy.

If he continues his play he's gonna get a big package at the deadline. It will be a 1st + and that is fantastic to have for trying to move up in the draft or working to acquire a player who comes available through a trade thats age and health isn't a massive question mark.

If we can get a first round pick for Monahan it will a big win for us. Getting a first round pick to take him and another first round to trade him? Massive win for us.

Monahan has been great for us. I can understand why people want to keep him.

 

[WeThreeKings]

If we can get a first round pick for Monahan it will a big win for us. Getting a first round pick to take him and another first round to trade him? Massive win for us.

Monahan has been great for us. I can understand why people want to keep him.

Engels believes (rightly or wrongly) that if he keeps up his current pace of play and is healthy, that it will be a 1st and a decent to good plus.

 

[cave troll]

I don't think I'm underestimating how bad we are.. there's just an unlikely event where they catch SJS. Then it will take a lot of negative things to happen to also be worse than Nashville and Chicago.

Then you've just got a lot of mid teams - Calgary, CBJ, Seattle, Buffalo, and Philly.. and some other teams like Edmonton, Ottawa and Minnesota who have had poor starts that only have so much time to get back on track.

We will be around where we need to be and that's what matters.



Bobrov isn't the only person making the pick #1 and I don't think a 'god help us' is even necessary.

We know at least one high ranking Habs scout really likes Demidov.
Catton is in a tier of his own among forwards after the top 3 and is even challenging Demidov at this point.

Unless we pick too low, we should be walking out with one of Celebrini, Eiserman, Demidov or Catton.

Considering that out first 3 picks in last 2 years were all European, I'm pretty convincer Bobrov's choices and his connections with hockey historians have weight.
Also, if you take his picks for granted, just remember the last draft where after Columbus drafted , 99.999% of posters were into "yessssssss, it's Smith or Michkov" mode and then Carey comes and doesn't even know the name of the kid we picked. So if you think Demidov and Catton are our sure pick, be ready for someone like Kivharju or Chrenishov.

 

[rahad]

You are underestimating how bad we are. The team is playing hard so games are close but the lack of talent is just staggering.

All 3 of the 4 teams below us last year got better this year compared to the Habs.

We've had our record massively inflated because of OT wins.

I don't agreed. We are not bottom 5 bad. We needed record breaking injury to draft in the top 5 ( 2023). Do you honestly see us ending in the bottom 5 with a healthy Monahan and Dach? We lost 2-1 to Calgary. With Dach on the team, we could have won in OT.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Considering that out first 3 picks in last 2 years were all European, I'm pretty convincer Bobrov's choices and his connections with hockey historians have weight.
Also, if you take his picks for granted, just remember the last draft where after Columbus drafted , 99.999% of posters were into "yessssssss, it's Smith or Michkov" mode and then Carey comes and doesn't even know the name of the kid we picked. So if you think Demidov and Catton are our sure pick, be ready for someone like Kivharju or Chrenishov.

We took McKenzie's 1 at 1, which always happens. We took Mesar because he deserved to be picked there and everyone is lamenting not taking another Euro in Kulich.

Anyone who thought it was Michkov wasn't paying attention.. Reinbacher was going to go at 5, either to us or a team that traded up for him.

I will delete my account on HF and never come back if the Habs take Kiviharju with their own 1st round pick. There's 0 chance of that ever happening.

 

[cave troll]

Oh yeah?
Mckenzie' final list 2023:
Intrigue and excitement in the Year of Connor Bedard at the NHL Draft | TSN
5. Michkov 8. Reinbacher (behind Dvorsky)
In 2022, Mesar was 30th in McKenzie final list.
So no, we don't draft 1 at 1 like McKenzie. If we had McKenzie picks, we'll be with Slaf, Michkov and Bichsel now.

 

[Redux91]

It will not get worse if we get our own offensive player in this years draft and we've built a contending defense on the back of Guhle-Reinbacher as corner stones on either side of the ice. Especially as we watch teams with 2-4 of the best offensive players in the league unable to get out of the first round.

Lol how people can't understand this part as its happening right in front of our eyes is absolutely mind blowing

 

[WeThreeKings]

Lol how people can't understand this part as its happening right in front of our eyes is absolutely mind blowing

Like I get it.. we haven't seen 40 goals or PPG or 100 pts in a long time.

We all wanna have that dynamic talent, we wanna see that happen over 82 games.

I get it..

But that cup run, even as unlikely as it was.. was way more entertaining than the PPG season Kovalev put up and we were out early.

I don't care how we do it, if it is on the back of a deep defense and a deep forward group, or what.. but I want to compete.

I'd say there has been several very promising story lines in our rebuild over the past month.

 

[NORiculous]

Why wouldn't it be?

They already have Dach, Suzuki and Caufield. Newhook will likely develop into a cromulent 2nd line winger. Slafkovsky continues to show that his development is coming along slowly but that there's certainly a top 6 forward with size in there.

There's plenty in the system with Mesar, Roy and Farrell to name 3 that have the abilities to play in a top 9. If Joshua Roy was anywhere else the wrist slitting would be insane.

Hopefully it is enough but hardly a fail safe planning… specially since the Habs should raise in rankings making it harder to draft them.

I also don’t think the top 9 is the problem. Let’s not turn the Suzuki era into a Koivuish era.

It will not get worse if we get our own offensive player in this years draft and we've built a contending defense on the back of Guhle-Reinbacher as corner stones on either side of the ice. Especially as we watch teams with 2-4 of the best offensive players in the league unable to get out of the first round.

Comparing to the leaf while ignoring TB, Col, Pits, Chi, etc. (All the teams in the last 20 years that are/were continuously competitive because of offensive players) doesn’t seem to be the best of planing.

Sure these teams aren’t only offensive players (vast majority understand that) but to diminish these players isn’t helping to swallow the « other » picks.

You also don’t point out all the teams that are missing top offence talent, aren’t continuously competitive but are too good to draft the top offensive talent.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Hopefully it is enough but hardly a fail safe planning… specially since the Habs should raise in rankings making it harder to draft them.

I also don’t think the top 9 is the problem. Let’s not turn the Suzuki era into a Koivuish era.


Comparing to the leaf while ignoring TB, Col, Pits, Chi, etc. (All the teams in the last 20 years that are/were continuously competitive because of offensive players) doesn’t seem to be the best of planing.

Sure these teams aren’t only offensive players (vast majority understand that) but to diminish these players isn’t helping to swallow the « other » picks.

You also don’t point out all the teams that are missing top offence talent, aren’t continuously competitive but are too good to draft the top offensive talent.

Tampa Bay built an impressive defense and then had the best goalie in the world.
Colorado built an impressive defense (and couldn't get anything done prior to that defense coming into its own)
Chicago also had an insane top 4 defense.

Pittsburgh is the only one of those teams who won with a weak defense group.

I'm not saying we shouldn't go out and get offense, but ignoring that defense is an important ingredient to winning is also something that doesn't get enough attention.

They went with the tough to get potential first pairing RD over the smaller dynamic forward who could score PPG+ in his prime. I don't think that is a controversial decision but I understand why it would be a tough pill to swallow for this fanbase.

But we are on track to draft that offensive player this year and despite everyone saying we should have picked Michkov last year and took a defenseman this year.. We can't name one singular RD prospect with the defensive game that Reinbacher possess in this draft.. yet we can name at least 4 forwards with 1st line+ potential.

 

[Redux91]

You need good players and good management to win, you don't have less chance to win with McDavid.

Yeah that's what we were insinuating lol..

But you are correct about needing good players, forward and defense, is the point

 

[An0n]

Hopefully it is enough but hardly a fail safe planning… specially since the Habs should raise in rankings making it harder to draft them.

I also don’t think the top 9 is the problem. Let’s not turn the Suzuki era into a Koivuish era.

No such things exists, especially not in the sporting environment.

 

[NORiculous]

No such things exists, especially not in the sporting environment.

It was referring to multiple offensive talent instead of one.

 

[An0n]

It was referring to multiple offensive talent instead of one.

Caufield, Suzuki, Dach and I'm confident enough to add Roy to that bunch as well. So that's 4 top line forwards, not one.

Add to that group what will most likely be a top8 forward at the next draft.

 

[NORiculous]

Caufield, Suzuki, Dach and I'm confident enough to add Roy to that bunch as well. So that's 4 top line forwards, not one.

Add to that group what will most likely be a top8 forward at the next draft.

That is debatable.

Suzuki would be a low tier first C. Will he grow? Maybe be it’s not clear.

Dach was breaking out so it hard to say what his lvl is. For now, I’d rank him as a low tier first C.

Roy can get there but nothing is sure yet.

So… I would say that drafting more then one with top line potential would be a good problem to have if they all make it.

 

[DAChampion]

Nashville had Josi, Subban, Ekholm and Ellis but no top offensive player and they couldn't win it. They came about as close as the Oilers did, losing to the cup champs in 4 and 6.

They had Ryan Johansen, he was injured and then Pittsburgh won in six games.

 

[DAChampion]

Why wouldn't it be?

They already have Dach, Suzuki and Caufield. Newhook will likely develop into a cromulent 2nd line winger. Slafkovsky continues to show that his development is coming along slowly but that there's certainly a top 6 forward with size in there.

There's plenty in the system with Mesar, Roy and Farrell to name 3 that have the abilities to play in a top 9.

When you write it like that it does suggest that just one more first -line forward will be enough, but I'll believe it when I see it. IMO Hughes should both trade for or sign an offensive forward, and draft one.

Cauldield - Suzuki - Dach
Slafkovsky - Celebrini - Nylander
Newhook - Monahan - Roy
Farrell - Dvorak - Gallagher
Spares: Mesar, Ylonen, Armia, Pezzetta, Evans, Harvey Pinard, Pearson, Anderson

If the situation is as good as you hope, Hughes can just trade somebody.

 

[montreal]

 

[ReHabs]

Oh yeah?
Mckenzie' final list 2023:
Intrigue and excitement in the Year of Connor Bedard at the NHL Draft | TSN
5. Michkov 8. Reinbacher (behind Dvorsky)
In 2022, Mesar was 30th in McKenzie final list.
So no, we don't draft 1 at 1 like McKenzie. If we had McKenzie picks, we'll be with Slaf, Michkov and Bichsel now.

No no, you see we defer to McKenzie only to defend the statistically worst producing 1OA in modern hockey history but we ignore McKenzie when it comes to the Habs snubbing the best performing Russian prospect in modern hockey history.

That's how it works. That's how it works with Habs commentators. Reinbacher (who some scouts had ranked as low as in the 20s) was a sure bet at 5, even though Bob McKenzie the guru had him at 8 but Slafkovsky who was 1 on a coin flip, now that is beyond reproach and beyond questioning, even now when he's proven to be statistically the worst producing 1OA in modern hockey history. I hope hockey historians are making note of the fresh and exciting new grounds the Kent Hughes Habs are breaking.

We expected improvements on two fronts: (upward) regression with fewer injuries and (upward) growth due to individual player growth.

It's not a bad thing if it is Caufield, Suzuki, Xhekaj, Harris, Guhle, Monty, and Slafkovsky doing the points-stealing.

Jake Allen, on the other hand, should not be stealing points.

 

[cave troll]

Button had Michkov at No4, Pellikka at No5, while the "new Pronger" Renibacher was at No 20.
I don't think anyone saw Reinbacher at No5. neither did Carey Price a minute before he stepped on the stage. Somehow I feel it was decided in 10 seconds on the table during draft.

This is way I said that if the lottery doesn't force us to draft Celebrini or Eiserman, then we have to have some divine help with Bobrov. ,)

 

[Riggins]

I'll eat my shoe if this team gets 82 points. Lose the next two and all of a sudden we're on pace for 73 points which sounds about right.

I think it'll be pretty hard to get bottom three with the favourites being SJ, Chicago and Columbus. I wouldn't rule out CBJ finishing ahead of us though.

I think we're still battling with the likes of Philly, Arizona and Anaheim (unless the Ducks start is actually legit). The x-factors are Nashville and Calgary. Do the Preds suck this bad? Will Calgary start the sell off soon?

I'm not considering Edmonton, Ottawa, Minny and Seattle as bottom 8 teams despite their starts. Buffalo, Detroit, Washington and St. Louis all project better than the Habs.

For whatever it's worth (not much), the Athletic's model projects us at 4th worst.

 

[WeThreeKings]

When you write it like that it does suggest that just one more first -line forward will be enough, but I'll believe it when I see it. IMO Hughes should both trade for or sign an offensive forward, and draft one.

Cauldield - Suzuki - Dach
Slafkovsky - Celebrini - Nylander
Newhook - Monahan - Roy
Farrell - Dvorak - Gallagher
Spares: Mesar, Ylonen, Armia, Pezzetta, Evans, Harvey Pinard, Pearson, Anderson

If the situation is as good as you hope, Hughes can just trade somebody.

I think he will continue to do that
I'm sure he's checking in on Zegras and Johnson.

I'm sure he's monitoring Nylander. Probably EP40, Draisatl etc. Too.

 

[Sorinth]

31st is very possible. People are blinded by those useless OT wins but we are bad. We will start dropping in the standings very soon.
2 regulation wins this season tied with San Jose for last.

Just because we are bad doesn't mean other teams aren't worse.

Since MSL took over we have the 6th worst record in the league, so yeah we are bad but plenty of other teams are worse. If you project MSL coaching record over the remaining games of the season we would be at 73 points which isn't going to get you close to 31st.

 

[Redux91]

I think he will continue to do that
I'm sure he's checking in on Zegras and Johnson.

I'm sure he's monitoring Nylander. Probably EP40, Draisatl etc. Too.

It's like people think a rebuild is purely and strictly done only through the draft..