HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

[montreal]

I'll eat my shoe if this team gets 82 points. Lose the next two and all of a sudden we're on pace for 73 points which sounds about right.

I think it'll be pretty hard to get bottom three with the favourites being SJ, Chicago and Columbus. I wouldn't rule out CBJ finishing ahead of us though.

I think we're still battling with the likes of Philly, Arizona and Anaheim (unless the Ducks start is actually legit). The x-factors are Nashville and Calgary. Do the Preds suck this bad? Will Calgary start the sell off soon?

I'm not considering Edmonton, Ottawa, Minny and Seattle as bottom 8 teams despite their starts. Buffalo, Detroit, Washington and St. Louis all project better than the Habs.

For whatever it's worth (not much), the Athletic's model projects us at 4th worst.

yea I figure it will drop as it's been so far as I just don't think this team is very good at all. 4th-8th would be a good guess but in another 5 or 6 weeks it will start to look clearer.

If you look at the goal Dif, aside from SJ who clearly going to end up 1st OA pre lottery at the rate they are going, 2 to 10 looks like it could be wide open as I can't believe the Oilers are this bad and now with a new coach I hope they start picking up the points left and right.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

It's like people think a rebuild is purely and strictly done only through the draft..

Which is stupid, Vegas acquired half their star players from trade or free agency.

 

[LaP]

Which is stupid, Vegas acquired half their star players from trade or free agency.

In return of players they drafted for the most part. So technically it's still thru the draft and thru scouting (pro and amateur). They got Eichel (24 years old) for Krebs (17th overall) and a 1st round pick. They got Stone (26 years old) for Brannstrom (15th overall) and a 2nd round pick. They got Karlsson and Marchessault from the expansion draft. They got Barbachev (26 years old) for Zach Dean (30th overall). They got Stephenson (25 years old) who was badly evaluated by the Caps for a 5th round pick. They got Patch for Suzuki (13th overall). They got Shea Theodore thru the expansion draft.

Literally the only important player they signed UFA is Pietrangelo. The only important players they acquired via trades who was not young when the trade happened was Patch and Martinez (two 2nd round picks) and it did not work for them in the case of Patch. I really really don't get why people are still arguing on semantic. For a reason i'll never get some posters absolutely wants tanking to = Edmonton. Obviously tanking with bad management will serve no purpose. Bad management is bad management.

But what Vegas does is not what we have been doing for the last 30 years. They trade for young players for the most part (like Newhook and Dach). Their pro scouting is probably 1st in the NHL. Their amateur scouting is good enough to bring in young players with enough value to be traded for something else than an old over the hill vet. And they still have expansion draft players in their lineup they go for free notably a first pairing dman, a winger who just won the conn smythe and a 2nd line center.

 

[NORiculous]

Which is stupid, Vegas acquired half their star players from trade or free agency.

How many other teams in the last 20 years have done what Vegas has done?

 

[the valiant effort]

Vegas walked out of the expansion draft with 300 assets thanks to all the dumbass GMs around the league.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

How many other teams in the last 20 years have done what Vegas has done?

NYR, Florida and Carolina have acquired significant players through trade or free agency.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Sadly, we must embrace the suckage

.500 ain't enough in the toughest division in the NHL

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Lol how people can't understand this part as its happening right in front of our eyes is absolutely mind blowing

It's mind blowing how ignorant it is to ommit Crosby and Malkin just to try to make a point based entirely on recency bias and completely devoid of a holistic view.

All those players are not the problem by themselves. In fact, the majority of teams who win the cup have at least one such player, in the same elite 20-30 players in the league range. We barely have two who are around 70-100th in the league, soon to add a 3rd in that same range if Dach can play more than 50odd games. We are not gonna win the cup without a modicum of offensive punch. All you geniuses can keep clapping like savant seals, but we're fast heading towards no man's land without actually adding one bonafide elite player. Let's cross those fingers and hope Hutson is the second coming of Erik Karlsson and Rainmaker the next Pietrangelo. Have to hope next draft finally brings us that one elite forward. Otherwise, it's gonna be the same old tune again 5 years from now. Back in no man's land.

 

[The Great Weal]

Which is stupid, Vegas acquired half their star players from trade or free agency.

Everyone wants to play in Vegas, nobody really wants to play here

 

[sandviper]

Oh yeah?
Mckenzie' final list 2023:
Intrigue and excitement in the Year of Connor Bedard at the NHL Draft | TSN
5. Michkov 8. Reinbacher (behind Dvorsky)
In 2022, Mesar was 30th in McKenzie final list.
So no, we don't draft 1 at 1 like McKenzie. If we had McKenzie picks, we'll be with Slaf, Michkov and Bichsel now.

You misunderstood WTK. The 1 at 1 was Slafkovsky, who Mac had at #1 and who we picked at #1.

As for Michkov, anyone actually paying attention the months before the lottery, even weeks before the draft should had known we weren’t picking Michkov. Of course, the possibility was there but all the hints were pointing at Reinbacher.

 

[rahad]

It's mind blowing how ignorant it is to ommit Crosby and Malkin just to try to make a point based entirely on recency bias and completely devoid of a holistic view.

All those players are not the problem by themselves. In fact, the majority of teams who win the cup have at least one such player, in the same elite 20-30 players in the league range. We barely have two who are around 70-100th in the league, soon to add a 3rd in that same range if Dach can play more than 50odd games. We are not gonna win the cup without a modicum of offensive punch. All you geniuses can keep clapping like savant seals, but we're fast heading towards no man's land without actually adding one bonafide elite player. Let's cross those fingers and hope Hutson is the second coming of Erik Karlsson and Rainmaker the next Pietrangelo. Have to hope next draft finally brings us that one elite forward. Otherwise, it's gonna be the same old tune again 5 years from now. Back in no man's land.

Don't know why it is so hard to draft or sign elite forward in Montreal. I can't remember the last 90pts forward in Montreal. The last PPG player has Alex Kovalev (for one season).

 

[montreal]

 

[Nicko999]

I don't agreed. We are not bottom 5 bad. We needed record breaking injury to draft in the top 5 ( 2023). Do you honestly see us ending in the bottom 5 with a healthy Monahan and Dach? We lost 2-1 to Calgary. With Dach on the team, we could have won in OT.

Dach is done for the season, we need to take that into consideration. Monahan, Suzuki and Caufield are literally the only top 6 forwards we have.
Anaheim, Columbus and even Chicago (simply because of Bedard) has a better forward group.
The team is playing hard but still has as many regulation wins as the Sharks.
We shouldn't look last year too much as we overachieved a bit due to the goalies.

 

[Nicko999]

Just because we are bad doesn't mean other teams aren't worse.

Since MSL took over we have the 6th worst record in the league, so yeah we are bad but plenty of other teams are worse. If you project MSL coaching record over the remaining games of the season we would be at 73 points which isn't going to get you close to 31st.

The OTs have been very kind to the Habs... 2 regulation wins in 16 games says it all.

 

[Sorinth]

The OTs have been very kind to the Habs... 2 regulation wins in 16 games says it all.

That's a very shallow analysis that doesn't actually hold up to scrutiny. If instead of being 5-2 in OT/Shootout we were 2-5 we would be only drop to 24th in the league. So this idea that we are a lottery team that's just been lucky in OT is nonsense, our OT success is why we are flirting with a playoff spot, it's not why we aren't in a lottery pick position.

Not too mention many of those OT/Shootout games we had a lead in the 3rd period so the RW isn't very representative of how we've played.

 

[Nicko999]

That's a very shallow analysis that doesn't actually hold up to scrutiny. If instead of being 5-2 in OT/Shootout we were 2-5 we would be only drop to 24th in the league. So this idea that we are a lottery team that's just been lucky in OT is nonsense, our OT success is why we are flirting with a playoff spot, it's not why we aren't in a lottery pick position.

Not too mention many of those OT/Shootout games we had a lead in the 3rd period so the RW isn't very representative of how we've played.

The amount of OT games we've played is unsustainable over 82 games. We are not gonna play 40 OT games this season. In a lot of the OTs, we came from behind and were able to tie the game. Kudos to the team for that. MSL has them play hard. However as we progress into December-January-February, teams are about to tighten up and those OT wins will turn into 1 or 2 goals regulation losses.

Case in point: 2-5-0 in November so far.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Everyone wants to play in Vegas, nobody really wants to play here

Sure, I am not saying we should focus only on free agent players but from what we have seen in the past if we acquire a player that play well here, they usually re-sign with us. (Kovalev, Petry) in the end, we need a more balanced team but we also are looking for some firepower offensively. If we could get a Zegras (for instance) that would be nice IMO for our rebuild.

 

[Sorinth]

The amount of OT games we've played is unsustainable over 82 games. We are not gonna play 40 OT games this season. In a lot of the OTs, we came from behind and were able to tie the game. Kudos to the team for that. MSL has them play hard. However as we progress into December-January-February, teams are about to tighten up and those OT wins will turn into 1 or 2 goals regulation losses.

Case in point: 2-5-0 in November so far.

Of the 7 games that went to OT we were leading and gave up the tying goal that sent it to OT in 4 of them. So yes we almost certainly will have fewer OT games moving forward but the idea that those games will mostly become regulation losses has little to support it.

 

[The Great Weal]

Sure, I am not saying we should focus only on free agent players but from what we have seen in the past if we acquire a player that play well here, they usually re-sign with us. (Kovalev, Petry) in the end, we need a more balanced team but we also are looking for some firepower offensively. If we could get a Zegras (for instance) that would be nice IMO for our rebuild.

I definitely do get your point, but I feel like Vegas is the exception. Even if we get a guy like Zegras, he's nowhere near the player like Eichel/Stone/Pietrangelo which Vegas had the fortune of getting. Tavares wouldn't even answer us for a potential offer when he was a free agent whereas Pietrangelo took a discount to sign with Vegas.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The amount of OT games we've played is unsustainable over 82 games. We are not gonna play 40 OT games this season. In a lot of the OTs, we came from behind and were able to tie the game. Kudos to the team for that. MSL has them play hard. However as we progress into December-January-February, teams are about to tighten up and those OT wins will turn into 1 or 2 goals regulation losses.

Case in point: 2-5-0 in November so far.

Very likely to become 2-7 with our next two games, I might add.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Of the 7 games that went to OT we were leading and gave up the tying goal that sent it to OT in 4 of them. So yes we almost certainly will have fewer OT games moving forward but the idea that those games will mostly become regulation losses has little to support it.

Did you even read till the end of his post? The present trend does support it as his last sentence mentions, we are 2-5 in November and about to turn that into 2-7, unless they pull a miracle. OT wins are getting rarer, he is right.

 

[Sorinth]

Did you even read till the end of his post? The present trend does support it as his last sentence mentions, we are 2-5 in November and about to turn that into 2-7, unless they pull a miracle. OT wins are getting rarer, he is right.

Why would it take a miracle to win the next 2 games, last time we played those 2 teams we picked up 3 points. And if you want to talk about schedule, after those 2 games only 7 of following 18 games are against teams currently in a playoff spot. We will go through winning and losing streaks over the past 135 games (MSL) we are a .430 team, it's far more likely that we continue at about that rate then we have some massive falloff that puts us below Ducharme's 21-22 performance.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Sadly, we must embrace the suckage

.500 ain't enough in the toughest division in the NHL

7 wins 9 losses
2 win in regulation

even worse than last year and we had more key injuries.
This team still blows and the kid are barely progressing (im talking Guhle) because the rest aint much to see

 

[WeThreeKings]

Don't know why it is so hard to draft or sign elite forward in Montreal. I can't remember the last 90pts forward in Montreal. The last PPG player has Alex Kovalev (for one season).

It's been part of the philosophy and people they have brought in over the last 30 years.

We've finally broken away from that with Gorton, Hughes and MSL. So we just have to give it time, we haven't even finished dismantling the Bergevin core from this team.

 

[Riggins]

Gallagher CLUTCH in the closing minutes, getting us under .500 for the first time this year