HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

[WeThreeKings]

You really think we are going to lose 14 games in a row? Come on man…

No some of those OTL can turn to OTW and I expect some of them will be Ws but I just used a simple formula to determine it all. So far its been correct.

 

[LaP]

close the thread- tank is ded.
we picking 7th is what I said.

Catton/Iggy/Helenius or Eiserman. will be read.
Bookmark this then go to bed!

(Don't for get to like and subscribe)

The sky is falling, ... the sky is falling ...

 

[LaP]

We continue on as expected; we face a Bruins team tomorrow which should yield us a regulation loss.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Opponents[/TD]
[TD]Expected Result[/TD]
[TD]Actual Result[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NSH; CAR; TOR[/TD]
[TD]W; L; L[/TD]
[TD]W; L; L[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]CBJ; BOS; CGY[/TD]
[TD]W; L; OTL[/TD]
[TD]W;[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]EDM; VAN[/TD]
[TD]L; L[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SEA; COL; PHI; CAR[/TD]
[TD]OTL; L; OTL; L[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]FLA; TB; TOR[/TD]
[TD]L; OTL; L[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NYR; PHI; NYI; OTT[/TD]
[TD]L; OTL; OTL; W[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]DET; DET[/TD]
[TD]W; L[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Expected Points[/TD]
[TD]Actual Points[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]4 pts[/TD]
[TD]4 pts[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

We are not going to lose against Flyers. Tort effect is fading they struggled to beat SJ yesterday.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Okay that makes sense with nhl announcement - move up. Are you sure on the bolded, the NHL initial announcement says

No single team will be able to advance in the Draft order by reason of winning a Lottery Draw more than two (2) times in any five (5) year period. This limitation will not affect a Club’s ability to retain its presumptive Draft position in any Draft Lottery, nor would it preclude the possibility of the Club moving down in Draft Order to the extent other Clubs advance by reason of winning the Lottery Draws. For purposes of clarity, the limitation would attach to the team, not the specific pick.

Ok, then I'm wrong on that. Thought it attached to the pick.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

No tank games today. Tomorrow is a big day, though!

 

[WeThreeKings]

We are not going to lose against Flyers. Tort effect is fading they struggled to beat SJ yesterday.

We will see, plenty of time for them to get back on track before we play them.

 

[Weltschmerz]

Buffalo has a good team, they are just learning to win. Watch out for them. I think they should have signed guys like Perry. Some veterans that know what it takes, they would have gotten good faster, but I have no doubt they will be a power house.

Well they tried with Erik Johnson, but didn't really work out.
But that Byram trade is looking better and better.

 

[LaP]

We'll have to wait next year but yeah that Byram trade looks good. Byran, Power and Dahlin could be a scary defense to play against very soon.

 

[McGees]

The sky is falling, ... the sky is falling ...

I'm not saying the sky is falling -
I'm saying we have a better chance at catching Pens than the Yotes or Sens catching us tho.

 

[26Mats]

We'll have to wait next year but yeah that Byram trade looks good. Byran, Power and Dahlin could be a scary defense to play against very soon.

Tou have to wonder if one of them can play the left side. They're all lefties.

 

[Sorinth]

I know it's not a given but being in the basement is the best way to get superstar players, I'd rather take that risk and fail than settle for the ''everything can happen in the playoffs'' crap they've been shoving down my throat for the last 25+ years. I'm ready to suck for 10 years if needed, it's not worse than being a bubble team with no real shot at a cup imo.

Yes finishing in the basement is the best way to get superstar players, but going scorched earth doesn't seem like the way to do it because most successful rebuilds didn't go scorched earth. So even though going scorched earth is the best way to get superstars it's not the best way to rebuild.

And if we were being honest if another team out there built a SC winner using picks 1, 5, 7 along with trades/signings/later round picks becoming good/etc... that those 3 top-10 picks would be considered tanking picks that you need to get superstars and that tanking works and so we should tank. But because it's us suddenly picks 5 & 7 no longer count as tank picks just like how a 50 goal scorer would have been considered the type of elite superstar player that we lack, but then as soon as Caufield looked like he could do it suddenly being a 50 goal scorer didn't count as being elite.

In the end I'm not too worried we are going to repeat MB's anything can happen if we just make the playoffs strategy. If we get to the level of MB's early teams I have a lot more faith that Hughes will actually go out and add core level players instead of just sitting pat waiting for the perfect player to fall into his lap without having to overpay.

I meant too late for a scorched-earth rebuild because clearly that's not what Hughes wanted, not too late to have drafted a franchise talent. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm not writing anyone off -- I just don't have any confidence things will go our way because disappointment is all I've ever known with this team. Rebuilding is not necessarily a linear path, you're right. Maybe we'll get some nice surprises and I'll laugh at my cynical posts in a few years but it's hard to believe in happy endings when you've cheered for tire fire franchises that constantly find new ways to let you down all your life.

Ok I misunderstood there, yeah doesn't look like scorched-earth was ever in Hughes plans, and likely never going to happen with Molson as owner. I try not to let what MB did colour my view of what Hughes is doing, but who knows maybe the stark difference in competence levels between Hughes and Bergevin has given me rose-coloured glasses.

 

[HabsCode]

I bought NHL 24 recently and as usual started a GM mode with Montreal. Beside Gallagher Montreal doesn't really have horrible contract or really aged vets on the decline in their system. It felt like the rebuild was on the right path. Seems like Hugues and his team did a great job so far fixing the damage left by their precedents.

 

[CDN24]

Ok, then I'm wrong on that. Thought it attached to the pick.

Curious to see what happens when/if someone gets to the 2 win situation. Anytime there is a new rule there is someone trying to take advantage of it

Looking forward to the days we are no longer worry about lottery picks

M

 

[HuGort]

Well it's what you get for naming Dumbas as GM

Yup, plus Pens had enough franchise players last 40 years

 

[HabsCowboysOwn]

Yes finishing in the basement is the best way to get superstar players, but going scorched earth doesn't seem like the way to do it because most successful rebuilds didn't go scorched earth. So even though going scorched earth is the best way to get superstars it's not the best way to rebuild.

I guess my preference stems from the fact that I see it as the strategy furthest removed from MB's half-assed noncommittal approach. It's the way that would have made me feel better and trust the process more but I agree that it's not the only way to build a team.

And if we were being honest if another team out there built a SC winner using picks 1, 5, 7 along with trades/signings/later round picks becoming good/etc... that those 3 top-10 picks would be considered tanking picks that you need to get superstars and that tanking works and so we should tank. But because it's us suddenly picks 5 & 7 no longer count as tank picks just like how a 50 goal scorer would have been considered the type of elite superstar player that we lack, but then as soon as Caufield looked like he could do it suddenly being a 50 goal scorer didn't count as being elite.

I just need to see some of these things go our way to start believing. I'm not sold (yet) on Caufield scoring 50, Suzuki/Dach down the middle being enough, Reinbacher being the right choice last year, Slaf becoming a franchise player, top UFAs signing here, hitting with some of our later picks, etc. You get the gist.

It's a lot of uncertainty to digest for me but at least we'll have all the answers soon enough.

In the end I'm not too worried we are going to repeat MB's anything can happen if we just make the playoffs strategy. If we get to the level of MB's early teams I have a lot more faith that Hughes will actually go out and add core level players instead of just sitting pat waiting for the perfect player to fall into his lap without having to overpay.

I do think he actually has a plan/vision unlike Bozovin, I hope it'll pay off.

Ok I misunderstood there, yeah doesn't look like scorched-earth was ever in Hughes plans, and likely never going to happen with Molson as owner. I try not to let what MB did colour my view of what Hughes is doing, but who knows maybe the stark difference in competence levels between Hughes and Bergevin has given me rose-coloured glasses.

I'm still at the doo doo brown-coloured glasses part thanks to Marc and his decade-long disasterclass but I'm doing my best to keep an open mind and eventually move past that.

 

[Sorinth]

I guess my preference stems from the fact that I see it as the strategy furthest removed from MB's half-assed noncommittal approach. It's the way that would have made me feel better and trust the process more but I agree that it's not the only way to build a team.


I just need to see some of these things go our way to start believing. I'm not sold (yet) on Caufield scoring 50, Suzuki/Dach down the middle being enough, Reinbacher being the right choice last year, Slaf becoming a franchise player, top UFAs signing here, hitting with some of our later picks, etc. You get the gist.

It's a lot of uncertainty to digest for me but at least we'll have all the answers soon enough.


I do think he actually has a plan/vision unlike Bozovin, I hope it'll pay off.


I'm still at the doo doo brown-coloured glasses part thanks to Marc and his decade-long disasterclass but I'm doing my best to keep an open mind and eventually move past that.

Fair enough, my expectations is that a level of uncertainty is basically normal, teams will always leave the rebuild without having an answer for every hole in the lineup or knowing just how good their young guys will end up. A big part of GM's roster building work is being responsive as things change, so sure we don't know how the young guys will do, or whether Hughes will be able to make a big trade/UFA signing to address a hole. But he's shown he's pro-active in a lot of ways so I doubt we suffer a repeat of the MB sitting on his hands because it's too expensive/hard to make a move that is necessary.

 

[habbubba]

There's so much more to a rebuild then getting the best lottery pick though.

Hence why I said this,missed it?

There is no actual template to build a cup contender as a cup contender stems from assembling the best roster and there are multiple ways of doing that.

 

[Sorinth]

Hence why I said this,missed it?

There is no actual template to build a cup contender as a cup contender stems from assembling the best roster and there are multiple ways of doing that.

You also said if your going to tank that we should do it right and get a lower pick implying that we should've have gone scorched earth. Yet there's very little evidence that scorched earth rebuilds are the "right" way to do it. The teams that got multiple high draft picks in a row and then went on to be contenders/winners like Tampa dand Chicago didn't go scorched earth when they rebuilt.

 

[habbubba]

You also said if your going to tank that we should do it right and get a lower pick implying that we should've have gone scorched earth. Yet there's very little evidence that scorched earth rebuilds are the "right" way to do it. The teams that got multiple high draft picks in a row and then went on to be contenders/winners like Tampa dand Chicago didn't go scorched earth when they rebuilt.

It was pertaining specifically how Montreal was going about it,trying to go as low as possible but not doing it.

 

[DAChampion]

You also said if your going to tank that we should do it right and get a lower pick implying that we should've have gone scorched earth. Yet there's very little evidence that scorched earth rebuilds are the "right" way to do it. The teams that got multiple high draft picks in a row and then went on to be contenders/winners like Tampa dand Chicago didn't go scorched earth when they rebuilt.

Scorched Earth strategies were supported by teams like Chicago, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, and Washington that built significant parts of their rosters prior to the 2015 lottery rule change. It's no longer relevant.

IMO Hughes should try and progress next year. Getting rid of Allen and keeping Savard were good first steps in that regard.

 

[Sorinth]

Scorched Earth strategies were supported by teams like Chicago, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, and Washington that built significant parts of their rosters prior to the 2015 lottery rule change. It's no longer relevant.

IMO Hughes should try and progress next year. Getting rid of Allen and keeping Savard were good first steps in that regard.

Except they didn't actually go scorched earth. Chicago was trading picks/prospects for Havlat and signing top UFAs and then still went and ended up with Toews and Kane. They did the opposite of going scorched earth and ended up sucking anyways and getting a top pick.

Having a few top picks in a row doesn't mean the team actually implemented a scorched earth strategy.

 

[Rapala]

I bought NHL 24 recently and as usual started a GM mode with Montreal. Beside Gallagher Montreal doesn't really have horrible contract or really aged vets on the decline in their system. It felt like the rebuild was on the right path. Seems like Hugues and his team did a great job so far fixing the damage left by their precedents.

Didn't Bergevin warn you about this?

 

[Rapala]

Scorched Earth strategies were supported by teams like Chicago, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, and Washington that built significant parts of their rosters prior to the 2015 lottery rule change. It's no longer relevant.

IMO Hughes should try and progress next year. Getting rid of Allen and keeping Savard were good first steps in that regard.

I'm firmly in that same boat. I feel it's primordial we take a big step next season. We aren't doing it with this roster.
We need to start cutting out lesser players now.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Its too late for scorched earth anyways ,I think the tank is dead next year. Should have put an absolute shitter in nets for the past two year , Monty probably ended up better than we thought. Unfortunate to say the least.

Oh well we move on and pray for good drafting and smart moves I guess, won't be getting any free superstar ppg players from the tank , it is what it is. (I'm trying to jinx this years lottery)

 

[Rapala]

Its too late for scorched earth anyways ,I think the tank is dead next year. Should have put an absolute shitter in nets for the past two year , Monty probably ended up better than we thought. Unfortunate to say the least.

Oh well we move on and pray for good drafting and smart moves I guess, won't be getting any free superstar ppg players from the tank , it is what it is. (I'm trying to jinx this years lottery)

I tried to jinx our last game.
There must be some kind of built in jinx factor but I don't have it.