HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

[McGees]

close the thread- tank is ded.
we picking 7th is what I said.

Catton/Iggy/Helenius or Eiserman. will be read.
Bookmark this then go to bed!

(Don't for get to like and subscribe)

 

[Sorinth]

I'm convinced we're heading towards the same perpetual mediocrity zone we've been stuck in for decades. Good defense and goaltending, mediocre at best offense with no game breaking talent.
Good enough to make the playoffs but never good enough to contend for anything, rinse and repeat.

Our only hope is winning the lottery this year and I don't see it. I know I'm a pessimist, a debbie downer, whatever you want to call it. But that's how I feel, hope they prove me wrong in a few years.

It's kind of funny that when we look at the rebuild teams around us like Ottawa or Arizona or Buffalo they'd kill to get to that "perpetual mediocrity zone" where they consistently make the playoffs even if they never contend. They'd do anything to end their tanking years whereas our fans think we need to actively work at being bad otherwise we'll just make the playoffs by default.

 

[Nicko999]

I'm convinced we're heading towards the same perpetual mediocrity zone we've been stuck in for decades. Good defense and goaltending, mediocre at best offense with no game breaking talent.
Good enough to make the playoffs but never good enough to contend for anything, rinse and repeat.

Our only hope is winning the lottery this year and I don't see it. I know I'm a pessimist, a debbie downer, whatever you want to call it. But that's how I feel, hope they prove me wrong in a few years.

Don't worry... you're not alone. Been saying for a while now that since Hughes was hired the team has done a retool rather than a rebuild.

It's the same thing as the previous 30 years. The difference being the talent level is even lower now so instead of the usual 10-15th position, we pick 5-10th.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Detroit is chocking hard right now. Probably going to miss the playoff. Buff getting out of a top 10 pick(kinda like last year). Getting red hot at the wrong time and a little bit to late. I'm wondering if the Sabers get lucky and Cole Eiserman drop to them in the 2024 draft (like Benson).

Kinda crazy that Washington still has a chance of making the playoff.

They're missing Dylan Larkin. Detroit was on a 6 game winning streak and have now followed that with a 6 game losing streak. They're getting their asses kicked, though. They've been out scored 32-11 in those 6 losses.

I don't think they've won a game since Larkin has been out. They really need a 2nd line center. The centers behind him are really 3rd line centers. Guys like Copp & Rasmussen.

 

[The Last Red]

They will 100% be gone lol, not a chance they're still available when we pick. We'll be left with the lesser options as usual.

Huh? They could have picked an offensive superstar last year but CHOSE not to.

 

[HabsCowboysOwn]

It's kind of funny that when we look at the rebuild teams around us like Ottawa or Arizona or Buffalo they'd kill to get to that "perpetual mediocrity zone" where they consistently make the playoffs even if they never contend. They'd do anything to end their tanking years whereas our fans think we need to actively work at being bad otherwise we'll just make the playoffs by default.

I really don't care what these poverty franchises do and do not want -- they're the embodiment of tanking gone wrong, the worst-case nightmare scenario. But a lot of teams get it right. Scorched-earth rebuilds have worked before and that's what I wanted the Habs to do because it gives you the best chance at drafting franchise type talent but it's too late now, I get that.

I just want them to take the next step for once in my life and I don't know if the pieces they have (on offense) will be enough to achieve that. Hopefully some of them will exceed my expectations and make me feel stupid in a few years, I have no problem eating crow when I'm wrong. All I know is that just making the playoffs and hoping for the best won't cut it for me anymore. Been there done that, not interested. Maybe you see things differently and that's perfectly fine too.

Huh? They could have picked an offensive superstar last year but CHOSE not to.

Yeah, you're right actually. I wanted Michkov too, he would have made this year's draft a stress-free formality. Just pick the best D available and be done with it but nope. It's never that easy with this team.

Don't worry... you're not alone. Been saying for a while now that since Hughes was hired the team has done a retool rather than a rebuild.

It's the same thing as the previous 30 years. The difference being the talent level is even lower now so instead of the usual 10-15th position, we pick 5-10th.

Yup, if you're going to rebuild don't hold back, do it Chicago and SJ style. But what's done is done, let's hope we're wrong.

 

[Sorinth]

I really don't care what these poverty franchises do and do not want -- they're the embodiment of tanking gone wrong, the worst-case nightmare scenario. But a lot of teams get it right. Scorched-earth rebuilds have worked before and that's what I wanted the Habs to do because it gives you the best chance at drafting franchise type talent but it's too late now, I get that.

I just want them to take the next step for once in my life and I don't know if the pieces they have (on offense) will be enough to achieve that. Hopefully some of them will exceed my expectations and make me feel stupid in a few years, I have no problem eating crow when I'm wrong. All I know is that just making the playoffs and hoping for the best won't cut it for me anymore. Been there done that, not interested. Maybe you see things differently and that's perfectly fine too.

It's actually quite tough to get out of the basement so it's just funny that people think it's basically a given that we will do it. It's like the girl who thinks the littlest amount of weightlifting will turn them into she-hulks overnight when in reality it takes an incredible amount of work.

It's fine to not care what other teams do/want but if you did actually look into what they did you'll find that the teams you think were successful scorched-earth rebuilds never actually went scorched-earth. Chicago was spending picks and prospects to get Havlat and signing the top UFAs like Khabibulin as part of the rebuild that gave them Kane and Toews. Tampa kept MSL and Lecavalier throughout the Stamkos and Hedman rebuild years. So your desire for us to have gone scorched earth seems misguided at best.

And as for it being too late to have drafted that franchice talent, it's an odd take. It took 5 years for MacKinnon and Draisaitl to become ppg players yet we are writing Slaf off as not being one? And then there's the fact that even when the rebuild is supposed to be over teams will still often get top picks. Colorado had already gone through their rebuild years but still ended up with a 4th overall to get Makar, Tampa got a 3rd overall years after the Stamkos/Hedman drafts.

 

[HabsCowboysOwn]

It's actually quite tough to get out of the basement so it's just funny that people think it's basically a given that we will do it. It's like the girl who thinks the littlest amount of weightlifting will turn them into she-hulks overnight when in reality it takes an incredible amount of work.

It's fine to not care what other teams do/want but if you did actually look into what they did you'll find that the teams you think were successful scorched-earth rebuilds never actually went scorched-earth. Chicago was spending picks and prospects to get Havlat and signing the top UFAs like Khabibulin as part of the rebuild that gave them Kane and Toews. Tampa kept MSL and Lecavalier throughout the Stamkos and Hedman rebuild years. So your desire for us to have gone scorched earth seems misguided at best.

And as for it being too late to have drafted that franchice talent, it's an odd take. It took 5 years for MacKinnon and Draisaitl to become ppg players yet we are writing Slaf off as not being one? And then there's the fact that even when the rebuild is supposed to be over teams will still often get top picks. Colorado had already gone through their rebuild years but still ended up with a 4th overall to get Makar, Tampa got a 3rd overall years after the Stamkos/Hedman drafts.

I know it's not a given but being in the basement is the best way to get superstar players, I'd rather take that risk and fail than settle for the ''everything can happen in the playoffs'' crap they've been shoving down my throat for the last 25+ years. I'm ready to suck for 10 years if needed, it's not worse than being a bubble team with no real shot at a cup imo.

Trades are fine to fill holes in your lineup when you already have all the hard-to-get pieces but superstar forwards don't get traded barring a massive overpayment and I don't think we have one of those, I might be wrong. Who are our Lecavalier/St. Louis type vets? I think we could have lived without Anderson, Savard, etc. Since when do top UFAs sign here? I wouldn't put that much emphasis on tanking if signing these players was a possibility but sadly, most of these guys don't want to play in Canada for less money. I'll never count on free agency as a legit option to build a team. In Vegas and New York okay, not in Montreal.

I meant too late for a scorched-earth rebuild because clearly that's not what Hughes wanted, not too late to have drafted a franchise talent. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm not writing anyone off -- I just don't have any confidence things will go our way because disappointment is all I've ever known with this team. Rebuilding is not necessarily a linear path, you're right. Maybe we'll get some nice surprises and I'll laugh at my cynical posts in a few years but it's hard to believe in happy endings when you've cheered for tire fire franchises that constantly find new ways to let you down all your life.

 

[Tuggy]

I'm starting to like Catton and Iginla and would be happy with either

Agreed. I'd be pretty happy with either one.

It's really going to depend how many D get taken ahead of us.

 

[WeThreeKings]

We continue on as expected; we face a Bruins team tomorrow which should yield us a regulation loss.

Opponents	Expected Result	Actual Result
NSH; CAR; TOR	W; L; L	W; L; L
CBJ; BOS; CGY	W; L; OTL	W;
EDM; VAN	L; L
SEA; COL; PHI; CAR	OTL; L; OTL; L
FLA; TB; TOR	L; OTL; L
NYR; PHI; NYI; OTT	L; OTL; OTL; W
DET; DET	W; L
	Expected Points	Actual Points
	4 pts	4 pts

 

[salbutera]

They're missing Dylan Larkin. Detroit was on a 6 game winning streak and have now followed that with a 6 game losing streak. They're getting their asses kicked, though. They've been out scored 32-11 in those 6 losses.

I don't think they've won a game since Larkin has been out. They really need a 2nd line center. The centers behind him are really 3rd line centers. Guys like Copp & Rasmussen.

Raymond again has gone AWOL when stretch drive intensity picks up….yet again!

2pts in 7GP and -9

 

[26Mats]

they're almost guaranteed one of those guys at the 6-8 spot

And if Demidov, Celebrini, Lindstrom, and Catton are gone, that means a really good dman is available.

 

[Rapala]

I wish I could call Thanos and ask him to snap the Coyotes out of existence, what a waste of space franchise.

Molson should just buy them as our NHL farm team.

 

[Rapala]

They're missing Dylan Larkin. Detroit was on a 6 game winning streak and have now followed that with a 6 game losing streak. They're getting their asses kicked, though. They've been out scored 32-11 in those 6 losses.

I don't think they've won a game since Larkin has been out. They really need a 2nd line center. The centers behind him are really 3rd line centers. Guys like Copp & Rasmussen.

Kinda shows us what a Suzuki-less Habs team would look like.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I know it's not a given but being in the basement is the best way to get superstar players, I'd rather take that risk and fail than settle for the ''everything can happen in the playoffs'' crap they've been shoving down my throat for the last 25+ years. I'm ready to suck for 10 years if needed, it's not worse than being a bubble team with no real shot at a cup imo.

Trades are fine to fill holes in your lineup when you already have all the hard-to-get pieces but superstar forwards don't get traded barring a massive overpayment and I don't think we have one of those, I might be wrong. Who are our Lecavalier/St. Louis type vets? I think we could have lived without Anderson, Savard, etc. Since when do top UFAs sign here? I wouldn't put that much emphasis on tanking if signing these players was a possibility but sadly, most of these guys don't want to play in Canada for less money. I'll never count on free agency as a legit option to build a team. In Vegas and New York okay, not in Montreal.

I meant too late for a scorched-earth rebuild because clearly that's not what Hughes wanted, not too late to have drafted a franchise talent. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm not writing anyone off -- I just don't have any confidence things will go our way because disappointment is all I've ever known with this team. Rebuilding is not necessarily a linear path, you're right. Maybe we'll get some nice surprises and I'll laugh at my cynical posts in a few years but it's hard to believe in happy endings when you've cheered for tire fire franchises that constantly find new ways to let you down all your life.

I agree with everything you say , We've seen some awful awful awful habs teams be *competitive* , It was awful , maybe this time around we can have a singular eeny meeny measly ppg player even if we become mediocre at least entertain us man

 

[Captain Mountain]

They're missing Dylan Larkin. Detroit was on a 6 game winning streak and have now followed that with a 6 game losing streak. They're getting their asses kicked, though. They've been out scored 32-11 in those 6 losses.

I don't think they've won a game since Larkin has been out. They really need a 2nd line center. The centers behind him are really 3rd line centers. Guys like Copp & Rasmussen.

Detroit really reminds me of the Bergevin "retool" Habs. With worse roster construction but better contract and cap management.

I know they've gotten unlucky lottery-wise, but man do they have a lot of work to do.

 

[CHwest]

It's kind of funny that when we look at the rebuild teams around us like Ottawa or Arizona or Buffalo they'd kill to get to that "perpetual mediocrity zone" where they consistently make the playoffs even if they never contend. They'd do anything to end their tanking years whereas our fans think we need to actively work at being bad otherwise we'll just make the playoffs by default.

Buffalo has a good team, they are just learning to win. Watch out for them. I think they should have signed guys like Perry. Some veterans that know what it takes, they would have gotten good faster, but I have no doubt they will be a power house.

 

[CDN24]

I would love to see Mtl and Chicago win the 2 lottery draws this year. Over an above the obvious value in picking 1st or 2nd it would mean Mtl has won 2 lotteries in 3 years and would not be eligible to win in 2025 or 2026. Hawks would have 2 wins in 2023 and 2024 and would not be eligible to win in 2025,2026 or 2027.

Then we would see the unintended consequences of that new rule. While Mtl and Hawks cannot win with their pick someone else can. Those 5 picks suddenly become very attractive trade assets.

If you think Mtl and or Chicago are still going to be bottom feeders next year you will pay a premium to acquire their pick-its a lottery ticket

 

[Seb]

I would love to see Mtl and Chicago win the 2 lottery draws this year. Over an above the obvious value in picking 1st or 2nd it would mean Mtl has won 2 lotteries in 3 years and would not be eligible to win in 2025 or 2026. Hawks would have 2 wins in 2023 and 2024 and would not be eligible to win in 2025,2026 or 2027.

Has the rule changed already? AFAIK it doesn't apply if the teams keeps its initial position, which means the Habs can still win the lottery twice.

 

[LaP]

Going to suck for Pens. Way they going that pick could be Hagens

Well it's what you get for naming Dumbas as GM

 

[austin316]

We continue on as expected; we face a Bruins team tomorrow which should yield us a regulation loss.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Opponents[/TD]
[TD]Expected Result[/TD]
[TD]Actual Result[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NSH; CAR; TOR[/TD]
[TD]W; L; L[/TD]
[TD]W; L; L[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]CBJ; BOS; CGY[/TD]
[TD]W; L; OTL[/TD]
[TD]W;[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]EDM; VAN[/TD]
[TD]L; L[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SEA; COL; PHI; CAR[/TD]
[TD]OTL; L; OTL; L[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]FLA; TB; TOR[/TD]
[TD]L; OTL; L[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NYR; PHI; NYI; OTT[/TD]
[TD]L; OTL; OTL; W[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]DET; DET[/TD]
[TD]W; L[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Expected Points[/TD]
[TD]Actual Points[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]4 pts[/TD]
[TD]4 pts[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

You really think we are going to lose 14 games in a row? Come on man…

 

[MarkovsKnee]

I would love to see Mtl and Chicago win the 2 lottery draws this year. Over an above the obvious value in picking 1st or 2nd it would mean Mtl has won 2 lotteries in 3 years and would not be eligible to win in 2025 or 2026. Hawks would have 2 wins in 2023 and 2024 and would not be eligible to win in 2025,2026 or 2027.

Then we would see the unintended consequences of that new rule. While Mtl and Hawks cannot win with their pick someone else can. Those 5 picks suddenly become very attractive trade assets.

If you think Mtl and or Chicago are still going to be bottom feeders next year you will pay a premium to acquire their pick-its a lottery ticket

The rule says in order to "win" a lottery you actually have to move up, which Montreal did not do in 2022, whiile Chicago did do in 2023. Chicago has used one of their lottery wins, while Montreal has not.

Also, the placement still belongs to Chicago, so if they trade their 2025 pick after winning in 2023 & 2024, and also win the 2025 lottery, the team that owns their pick still doesn't get to move up, because it's Chicago's place in draft. Ownership doesn't matter, team placement does.

 

[Leto]

Hast he rule changed already? AFAIK it doesn't apply if the teams keeps its initial position, which means the Habs can still win the lottery twice.

It hasn't changed. The new rule has been in effect beginning with the 2022 draft. In Montreal's case, we are still eligible to win the lottery and improve our draft position twice in a period of five year.

 

[CDN24]

Hast he rule changed already? AFAIK it doesn't apply if the teams keeps its initial position, which means the Habs can still win the lottery twice.

Yeah it is not clear if our 2022 counts as a win. we won the lottery but did not move up from a presumptive position. The initial announcements were not clear on that part of it. Hawks moved up, Devils moved up to 2nd in 2022. Hawks would be interesting as if they win one of the picks this year they are definitely out of moving up for 3 years. If they are bad next year but not NHL worst them trading their pick before the lottery become a possibility

 

[CDN24]

The rule says in order to "win" a lottery you actually have to move up, which Montreal did not do in 2022, whiile Chicago did do in 2023. Chicago has used one of their lottery wins, while Montreal has not.

Also, the placement still belongs to Chicago, so if they trade their 2025 pick after winning in 2023 & 2024, and also win the 2025 lottery, the team that owns their pick still doesn't get to move up, because it's Chicago's place in draft. Ownership doesn't matter, team placement does.

Okay that makes sense with nhl announcement - move up. Are you sure on the bolded, the NHL initial announcement says

No single team will be able to advance in the Draft order by reason of winning a Lottery Draw more than two (2) times in any five (5) year period. This limitation will not affect a Club’s ability to retain its presumptive Draft position in any Draft Lottery, nor would it preclude the possibility of the Club moving down in Draft Order to the extent other Clubs advance by reason of winning the Lottery Draws. For purposes of clarity, the limitation would attach to the team, not the specific pick.