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Blue Jays Discussion: The off-season is on. (Robbie Ray wins AL Cy Young)

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Agree with both of your points, the ability to add short term depth adds while Bo, Vlad, Manoah and Pearson are on the cheap helps big time.

I'm sure if Pearson can show some consistency out of the pen for 7-8 appearances, he may become the #5 SP but we still have options there if he's better as a 2-3 inning RP

Ryu bouncing back is huge if we want to move on from him next year in a trade.
Either way, he should still be a solid #3-4 SP

Praying Manoah can keep this development curve headed straight up but won't be surprised if he falters a bit as young players tend to do in their first couple years.

SDig14 said:
Agreed. I thought Berrios may be more important than any other free agent pitchers.

It was interesting last summer they seemed to prioritize getting an elite position player in Springer and then gambled a bit on rookie Pearson and reclamation projects in Matz, Ray and Roark. If you look at the rotation we started with last year, it was really quite amazing how well it worked out considering the risks. Matz was really solid, Ray was a Cy Young winner and rookie Manoah outperformed and made up for Ryu taking a step back and Pearson doing nothing.

I wonder if they spend big prospect capital again for the next Berrios, Luis Castillo, and have him for 2 years or do they spend just cash on someone like Gausman, who we know they have been in on in the past.

Or do they use last year as a blueprint and spend on Jose Ramirez or a free agent position player and try to find the next Ray and Matz? Maybe Jon Gray for Matz replacement?

Either way, the offseason will be EXCITING. Just hope it is not as slow as last year. Postive signs so far on that front.
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Maestro84 said:
I think elite SP is a much bigger plus in the long run than elite hitting. If they can trot out a lineup of:

- Ray or another elite arm
- Berrios
- Manoah
- Add another above avg starter
- Ryu (hope he bounces back)

That can win you a lot of games even if they no longer have a Marcus Semien to hit between Springer and Vladdy
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SDig14 said:
Ya, hard to say. Definitely getting more prime years for sure. But a bit more injury risk too, at least history of injuries anyways.

The way people talk about Semien's work ethic, fitness and character is impressive. How sad every single A's player was when he left as he was basically the heart of the team. How emotional Bo sounded when talking about him.

If Semien does slow down due to age over his next deal, it won't be because he didn't put in the time and effort that is for sure.
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Yeah those other two do have much more injury risk than Marcus so far so that's something to take note of. I trust management to make the right decisions as they've run this team well since they've been back on the upswing but if I had to pick one of the two, I'd probably lean a bit more towards Ray. This is a massive offseason for the Jays as it could very well set them up for years to come
 
So Semien wants to go back west. Giants seem to be out with Crawford at SS. Oakland sucks and is trying to save money...out. Dodgers? If Seager goes...maybe. I guess that leaves the Padres and the Angels. What are their infields like? I know nothing about either.
 
barilko05 said:
So Semien wants to go back west. Giants seem to be out with Crawford at SS. Oakland sucks and is trying to save money...out. Dodgers? If Seager goes...maybe. I guess that leaves the Padres and the Angels. What are their infields like? I know nothing about either.
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Padres have Machado and Tatis on the left side of the infield so they're out of the picture too lol I think it's Angels or Giants that are going to nab him
 
barilko05 said:
So Semien wants to go back west. Giants seem to be out with Crawford at SS. Oakland sucks and is trying to save money...out. Dodgers? If Seager goes...maybe. I guess that leaves the Padres and the Angels. What are their infields like? I know nothing about either.
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The Dodgers acquired Turner to be their SS. San Diego has Tatis Jr (and Machado). LAA has Jose Iglesias (so Marcus is a fit there). SFG has a hole at 2B (so one of Crawford/Semien would have to play 2B for him to sign there). Oakland is expected to slash payroll. The only way they could sign Marcus is if they traded their top 4 or 5 earners.
 
Berrios signing was clutch by the Jays. They have solidified 3 spots in the rotation while still having Stripling and Pearson as options internally.

Resigning both Ray and Matz would be ideal. But I wouldnt be against 2 more acquisitions coming via trade or free agency if they cannot get either of them. 2 of the following would what I would like to see:

Ray (FA), Matz (FA), Gaussman (FA), DeSciafani (FA), Gray (FA), Rodon (FA), Castillo (trade), Gray (trade), Marlins pitchers (trade).

There is plenty of available pitchers to round out the rotation.

As for FA offensive players we need to bring back Dickerson and Dyson on cheap deals as bench pieces. Re-signing Semien is a must in my books. If he doesnt come back top priority becomes Ramirez in Cleveland. Both Espinal and Biggio become platoon players at which ever position is left over (2B or 3B).

Then go all out to upgrade you bullpen. Simple now get it done.
 
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I was quite critical of the Berrios trade when it was made and still don't love the package that was given up for him - even if SWR and Martin were depreciating assets. But, I can't deny that this extension significantly changes my perception of the trade and is a good sign of what to expect for the team moving forward. After Berrios made the mechanical change where he stopped going over his head in his delivery he was dominant and as mentioned above, a full season with Walker and the R&D team might do wonders for Berrios. Plus, lets not forget that Berrios had been adamant for quite some time that he was going to test free agency, then he signs a long-term extension in a city he spent two months in. You love to see it.
 
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now just take chapman and one of montas manaea off the a's for a relaxed cost and fill out the rest with utility pen arms and and another starter(gausman is my hope)
 
Wow, that's a fantastic contract for us. If they can somehow get Ray and Gausman, that would be a hell of an off-season. And I don't think too unrealistic. This is the off-season to make big additions, assuming there's a season in 2022.
 
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That Berrios trade pill is a lot easier to swallow knowing they got him locked down for essentially the rest of his prime. Great deal! Was a big fan of him in Minnesota and loved him in MLB the show early on because no one could hit his slurve lmao.

I'm curious to see what they do about Robbie Ray. I'm firmly in the camp that you need to lock him down. Would look awfully dumb if the Jays let a potential cy young winner walk when they're trying to contend. There could be an argument made that it's not the end of the world since there's a crapload of options to replace him. Gausman, Rodon, Verlander are all FAs and then there's the trade market where guys like Chris Bassitt and one of the Marlins young arms could be had. I would have to assume one of Ray or Semien stays, but not both.

That's a hell of a start to the offseason though. Sign Robbie Ray and get him tighter pants since that seems to be the key to his power.
 
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Critical move. Not only will this impress Ray, but it now gives the Jays room to maneuver without him if he does end up going elsewhere. Grab a pitcher from the Marlins and the A's and now this team has a solid to great all around pitching staff for years to come and that's without Ray. Get Ray and then they can drop Ryu and others to deal with the infield situation.
 
Man Bear Pig said:
Wow, that's a fantastic contract for us. If they can somehow get Ray and Gausman, that would be a hell of an off-season. And I don't think too unrealistic. This is the off-season to make big additions, assuming there's a season in 2022.
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I’d like to see us pass on Ray, he’s not going to be worth his contract in 2 years. Not sure if he can sustain what he did last year. I’d love to see us bring back Stroman
 
francis246 said:
I’d like to see us pass on Ray, he’s not going to be worth his contract in 2 years. Not sure if he can sustain what he did last year. I’d love to see us bring back Stroman
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I dont see Ray actually getting Cy Young type of money and I certainly don't see any team going more than 5 years on him. That being said, he's still going to be a really good #2/#3 moving forward, assuming there's going to be regression from last season. Stroman signing here would be hilarious given his history with the Jays.
 
stickty111 said:
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Love that we were in on him, but it would be a cold day in hell before I would be okay with giving him 1 year at 21. If he isn't 100%, that's way too much. And if he is, you have to pay a LOT more next offseason with no QO attached.
 
That's good news to hear today. Essentially a 20 million a year extension after the arb 11 year estimate. Much cheaper than I thought he would come. Likely leaves us room for 1 more long term deal with someone outside the organization. I expect that will likely come this offseason either a pitcher or a 3rd baseman.
 
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