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Blue Jays Discussion: The off-season is on. (Robbie Ray wins AL Cy Young)

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This is an awesome deal considering his young age, AAV and most importantly his production. Dude's still just 27 years old so he's only going to get better onwards, what a massive move this is for the Jays.

I feel like Robbie Ray is the next target. I'm more into resigning him than Semien at this point for a few reasons:

- Ray is one year younger + many pitchers don't hit their prime till their 30s (look at this FA class for e.g)
- Pitching wins championships
- Pitching coach personnel seems to have figured out how to use Ray's strengths
- It's easier to replace an elite infielder than an elite starting pitcher
- SP is clearly a bigger need for the Jays than their hitting
 
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Angels were rumoured to be in on Ray and Semien, so it's nice to see them directing some of their spending power towards Noah. They still have enough $$ to make plenty of moves this year, but this improves our chances a little.
 
Kurtz said:
Angels were rumoured to be in on Ray and Semien, so it's nice to see them directing some of their spending power towards Noah. They still have enough $$ to make plenty of moves this year, but this improves our chances a little.
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I want the Angels to do well solely for the fact that I'd want to overthrow that org if they waste Trout and Ohtani's primes
 
SpezDispenser said:
Is it too greedy to want both Ray and Semien as well as signing Berrios to a long term extension?
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If Semien was the same age as Correa and Seager I'd throw all the money in his face to make sure he doesn't leave. Sadly he's 4 years older than them which could be a big difference during the latter half of his would-be deal
 
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TheImpatientPanther said:
Semien is gone imo. He doesn't want to play 2B and Bo doesn't either.

Ray + Berrios + depth arms and cheaper vet 2B would be a nice offseason.
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But the rumor that he may want to go back to the Bay Area doesn't let him play SS either. And the Mariners, who apparently may spend big for him, have already said they want Crawford at SS long-term as well.

Unless he goes to the Dodgers and they let Seager walk, I don't see a real contender for him to go to where is playing SS permanently. Maybe he likes the Jays enough to come back if he sees other options will be splitting SS/2B time as well?
 
Maestro84 said:
If Semien was the same age as Correa and Seager I'd throw all the money in his face to make sure he doesn't leave. Sadly he's 4 years older than them which could be a big difference during the latter half of his would-be deal
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Yeah, I had thought the same. Although a 5 year, 25 per is probably manageable going into his mid 30s and beyond, but risky.
 
I just hope they don't have Espinal at third. He's one of the best utility guys out there and I think he overachieved offensively last year.

Although, if they decide to sign two excellent pitchers instead of getting a 3B I would be fine having Espinal at third butthat's unlikely.
 
Maestro84 said:
If Semien was the same age as Correa and Seager I'd throw all the money in his face to make sure he doesn't leave. Sadly he's 4 years older than them which could be a big difference during the latter half of his would-be deal
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In theory, is it not the same risk? Semien should get a 5 year deal and Correa could get 9-10 years.

If someone gives Semien a deal in the 7-8 year range then that is silly season. I'd give him 5 years and be happy though.
 
Brandon Crawford played every single game he started last year at short for the Giants. He is 3 years older than Semien, but he was really good last year too. I don't see how Semien sees that as the ideal spot to play SS either.

Unless he wants to be close to home and thinks years 3-5 he is likely replacing Crawford at SS permanently, which could happen.
 
SDig14 said:
But the rumor that he may want to go back to the Bay Area doesn't let him play SS either. And the Mariners, who apparently may spend big for him, have already said they want Crawford at SS long-term as well.

Unless he goes to the Dodgers and they let Seager walk, I don't see a real contender for him to go to where is playing SS permanently. Maybe he likes the Jays enough to come back if he sees other options will be splitting SS/2B time as well?
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Anything is possible but it just feels pitching is the main focus with more depth adds to infield/outfield.

Semien sounded more committed/positive to coming back at closing meetings where Ray was more short and blunt with his comments.

Berrios was a key domino for us though, him and Manoah here for next 5+ years is amazing.
 
SDig14 said:
In theory, is it not the same risk? Semien should get a 5 year deal and Correa could get 9-10 years.

If someone gives Semien a deal in the 7-8 year range then that is silly season. I'd give him 5 years and be happy though.
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That's true I guess but I feel like a 8-10 year deal for those two younger guys will produce more elite seasons since they're still so young. With Semien, I don't know how exactly his game will development into his mid 30s although Bautista was 31 when he was signed to a 5-year deal after his 50+ HR year and that ended up working well so I dont even know lol
 
TheImpatientPanther said:
Anything is possible but it just feels pitching is the main focus with more depth adds to infield/outfield.

Semien sounded more committed/positive to coming back at closing meetings where Ray was more short and blunt with his comments.

Berrios was a key domino for us though, him and Manoah here for next 5+ years is amazing.
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Agreed. I thought Berrios may be more important than any other free agent pitchers.

It was interesting last summer they seemed to prioritize getting an elite position player in Springer and then gambled a bit on rookie Pearson and reclamation projects in Matz, Ray and Roark. If you look at the rotation we started with last year, it was really quite amazing how well it worked out considering the risks. Matz was really solid, Ray was a Cy Young winner and rookie Manoah outperformed and made up for Ryu taking a step back and Pearson doing nothing.

I wonder if they spend big prospect capital again for the next Berrios, Luis Castillo, and have him for 2 years or do they spend just cash on someone like Gausman, who we know they have been in on in the past.

Or do they use last year as a blueprint and spend on Jose Ramirez or a free agent position player and try to find the next Ray and Matz? Maybe Jon Gray for Matz replacement?

Either way, the offseason will be EXCITING. Just hope it is not as slow as last year. Postive signs so far on that front.
 
TheImpatientPanther said:
Anything is possible but it just feels pitching is the main focus with more depth adds to infield/outfield.

Semien sounded more committed/positive to coming back at closing meetings where Ray was more short and blunt with his comments.

Berrios was a key domino for us though, him and Manoah here for next 5+ years is amazing.
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I think elite SP is a much bigger plus in the long run than elite hitting. If they can trot out a lineup of:

- Ray or another elite arm
- Berrios
- Manoah
- Add another above avg starter
- Ryu (hope he bounces back)

That can win you a lot of games even if they no longer have a Marcus Semien to hit between Springer and Vladdy
 
Maestro84 said:
That's true I guess but I feel like a 8-10 year deal for those two younger guys will produce more elite seasons since they're still so young. With Semien, I don't know how exactly his game will development into his mid 30s although Bautista was 31 when he was signed to a 5-year deal after his 50+ HR year and that ended up working well so I dont even know lol
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Ya, hard to say. Definitely getting more prime years for sure. But a bit more injury risk too, at least history of injuries anyways.

The way people talk about Semien's work ethic, fitness and character is impressive. How sad every single A's player was when he left as he was basically the heart of the team. How emotional Bo sounded when talking about him.

If Semien does slow down due to age over his next deal, it won't be because he didn't put in the time and effort that is for sure.
 
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