Blue Jays Discussion: The off-season is on. (Robbie Ray wins AL Cy Young)

[Puckstuff]

The Jays have more to spend than anyone else, 2 huge holes that line up with a lot of the free agents positions and he doesn’t see them signing any major free agent except a courtesy they’ll compete for their 2 free agents back?

Here's an idea I had on how we can get creative with the payroll while still get better.

Trade Grichuck (owed 20.666 million over the next 2 years) for Jose Leclerc + 4 million in cash. Saves 7 million or so a year for the next 2 seasons where the extra $$ is most valuable and we get a shot at having a comeback reliever. Jays have to pay Leclerc in the 3rd year but he might rebound by then. Texas gets out of the Leclerc contract and Toronto frees up more dollars over the next 2 years.

Sign Marte for 3-4 years and 70-80 million. This is a massive upgrade over Grichcuk. Maybe as much as 3 WAR next year.

Promote Biggio to 2B (3 WAR resurgence?) Lose Semien (6 WAR?)

Biggio+Marte replaces Semien and Grichcuk for a similar projected WAR for a lot less committed dollars then what it would take to keep Semien (120-150 million).

It frees up a lot more dollars for pitching i.e Ray and we can make a play for Jose Ramirez should we go that route.


CF -Springer
3B - Ramirez
1B - Gurrerro
RF - Hernandez
SS - Bichette
LF - Marte
DH - Gurriel
C - Kirk/Jansen
2B - Biggio

Ray
Berrios
Manoah
Ryu
New Matz.


Or just sign Semien for 3B. I think we should really try to leverage a low cost Biggio season at 2B if possible and improve on Grichcuk.

 

[Bjindaho]

I thought pitchers weren’t allowed to put their hands anywhere near there mouth when pitching?

It is allowed if the managers and Umpire agree on an exception pre-game. Generally, the exception is made for any cold weather game (because it allows a pitcher to blow on his hands and because a spitball wouldn't actually work in the cold.

 

[Bjindaho]

Here's an idea I had on how we can get creative with the payroll while still get better.

Trade Grichuck (owed 20.666 million over the next 2 years) for Jose Leclerc + 4 million in cash. Saves 7 million or so a year for the next 2 seasons where the extra $$ is most valuable and we get a shot at having a comeback reliever. Jays have to pay Leclerc in the 3rd year but he might rebound by then. Texas gets out of the Leclerc contract and Toronto frees up more dollars over the next 2 years.

Sign Marte for 3-4 years and 70-80 million. This is a massive upgrade over Grichcuk. Maybe as much as 3 WAR next year.

Promote Biggio to 2B (3 WAR resurgence?) Lose Semien (6 WAR?)

Biggio+Marte replaces Semien and Grichcuk for a similar projected WAR for a lot less committed dollars then what it would take to keep Semien (120-150 million).

It frees up a lot more dollars for pitching i.e Ray and we can make a play for Jose Ramirez should we go that route.


CF -Springer
3B - Ramirez
1B - Gurrerro
RF - Hernandez
SS - Bichette
LF - Marte
DH - Gurriel
C - Kirk/Jansen
2B - Biggio

Ray
Berrios
Manoah
Ryu
New Matz.


Or just sign Semien for 3B. I think we should really try to leverage a low cost Biggio season at 2B if possible and improve on Grichcuk.

Marte for Grichuk ignores the fact that that spot shouldn't get nearly as many AB. Also, Semien has 0 interest in 3B.

Chapman from Oakland plus Ketel Marte from Arizona would cost a lot in assets but would thoroughly upgrade the two (combined).

 

[dredeye]

How exactly would the Yankees make Seager and Ray work payroll wise when from all indications they aren't able to go over the luxury tax. I just don't see them being players for multiple top end free agents. I think they are heavy into the trade market this winter.

Also possible on Correa LOL.

 

[Dr.Funk]

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I was just turning one...so according to my dad I was "watching" the game with him as he was blitzed out of his mind.

 

[SDig14]

We definitely need to be circling some of these cheaper teams like Cincinnati and Oakland with all their arbitration guys. Even if its not Chapman, there are other opportunities to pry pieces away from them to help us next year.

 

[dredeye]

I was just turning one...so according to my dad I was "watching" the game with him as he was blitzed out of his mind.

I watched the game on acid since I was in high school LOL. Some memories are extra special

 

[rojac]

Nothing worse then a fan from Boston. Just the most entitled fanbases you've ever seen who somehow plays the "underdog" card with every team. While also having massive payrolls.

That's the worst of their fans. But Toronto has horrible fans too. Heck, based on posts on this board, I'd rate the Leafs fanbase as one of the worst in sports.

Incidentally, one of my best friends is a Red Sox fan who grew up just outside Boston and he's a rational intelligent baseball fan who is my favorite person to talk baseball with. But by all means, paint all Red Sox fans with one brush.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

That's the worst of their fans. But Toronto has horrible fans too. Heck, based on posts on this board, I'd rate the Leafs fanbase as one of the worst in sports.

Incidentally, one of my best friends is a Red Sox fan who grew up just outside Boston and he's a rational intelligent baseball fan who is my favorite person to talk baseball with. But by all means, paint all Red Sox fans with one brush.

I will, and I'd do it again.

 

[Puckstuff]

Marte for Grichuk ignores the fact that that spot shouldn't get nearly as many AB. Also, Semien has 0 interest in 3B.

Holliday from Oakland plus Ketel Marte from Arizona would cost a lot in assets but would thoroughly upgrade the two (combined).

Why would you spend money and prospects on Ketel Marte, a 2B, when we are stacked up the middle? Not just with Bichette, Biggio and Espinal but Martinez, Smith and Groshans are in the system coming up. I understand Semien because he’s an MVP type of player, you make room for a guy like that but spending money (and prospects) on a marginal upgrade at 2B when we have Biggio would be poor asset management imo.

If anything spend money on the outfield where we don’t have as much prospect depth or a 3B would make more sense.

The Grichcuk position (the 4th outfield spot) will likely get 500+ ab’s just by running DH through outfield and by injuries. Grichuck had 500 + ab’s this year and was the 4th best player in the outfield. I wouldn’t be surprised if Grichcuk gets 400-500 ab’s next year again if he’s here again so It’s an ideal position to upgrade and Starling Marte over Grich is as big of a net upgrade as Ramirez/Semien (6 War?) over Biggio (3 war?) if Biggio is at 2b.

 

[phillipmike]

Just an amazing job by the Braves as they make it to the WS.

All those injuries, and what I thought were poor deadline moves and it worked out.

They have no business being in the playoffs and they get the job done!

 

[Maplebeasts]

Just an amazing job by the Braves as they make it to the WS.

All those injuries, and what I thought were poor deadline moves and it worked out.

They have no business being in the playoffs and they get the job done!

You called it. I didn't think anyone was going to be able to take the Dodgers out after the DS.

 

[GreytWun]

Hope AA wins a WS. Gets a bad rep around here which is ridiculous.

 

[kb]

Hope AA wins a WS. Gets a bad rep around here which is ridiculous.

No, it was justified. Last gasp trade of all prospects for rentals and over the hill vets. Set the org back years.

 

[GreytWun]

No, it was justified. Last gasp trade of all prospects for rentals and over the hill vets. Set the org back years.

Ok so he gave us playoff baseball which we hadn’t had in decades. That 2015 team should have won it all. Sorry but I trade that all over again for that excitement and feeling. The city was buzzing.

After everyone he traded which prospects actually panned out?

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Hope AA wins a WS. Gets a bad rep around here which is ridiculous.

Does he actually get a bad rep around here? The preceding years after he left the collective fanbase salivated over him for years after to the point they wouldn't look at Shapiro and Atkins in an objective manner either.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Ok so he gave us playoff baseball which we hadn’t had in decades. That 2015 team should have won it all. Sorry but I trade that all over again for that excitement and feeling. The city was buzzing.

After everyone he traded which prospects actually panned out?

It doesn't matter if the prospects panned out, he was careless near the end of his tenure here. That being said, I liked AA but there's no doubt he made some pretty dumb moves likely knowing he was on his way out.

 

[Bjindaho]

Why would you spend money and prospects on Ketel Marte, a 2B, when we are stacked up the middle? Not just with Bichette, Biggio and Espinal but Martinez, Smith and Groshans are in the system coming up. I understand Semien because he’s an MVP type of player, you make room for a guy like that but spending money (and prospects) on a marginal upgrade at 2B when we have Biggio would be poor asset management imo.

If anything spend money on the outfield where we don’t have as much prospect depth or a 3B would make more sense.

The Grichcuk position (the 4th outfield spot) will likely get 500+ ab’s just by running DH through outfield and by injuries. Grichuck had 500 + ab’s this year and was the 4th best player in the outfield. I wouldn’t be surprised if Grichcuk gets 400-500 ab’s next year again if he’s here again so It’s an ideal position to upgrade and Starling Marte over Grich is as big of a net upgrade as Ramirez/Semien (6 War?) over Biggio (3 war?) if Biggio is at 2b.

Because Ketel Marte also plays very good OF. Imagine a quality 4th of who could start at 2b when he isn't playing the outfield.

 

[Dr.Funk]

 

[kb]

It doesn't matter if the prospects panned out, he was careless near the end of his tenure here. That being said, I liked AA but there's no doubt he made some pretty dumb moves likely knowing he was on his way out.

This is it exactly. He emptied the farm on a team that had the possibility of a one, perhaps 2 season run, and then there was nothing left to backfill - or to use as currency to backfill.

 

[canucksfan]

Personally, I didn't mind what AA did towards the end of his tenure. Jays had a very long playoff drought and the Yanks and Red Sox weren't elite. The 2015 team easily could have won the whole thing. Some of his mistakes included Dickey and the Marlins trades.

AA took over from JP who was very bad. He didn't sign any international free agents and the drafting was crap. AA had to restart from scratch basically.

I liked AA and I like the current management group. In the social media age, some people seem to believe they have to pick a side and be firmly entrenched with that side.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Major League Baseball work stoppage almost certain on Dec. 2 - The Associated Press

HOUSTON (AP) — Baseball’s ninth work stoppage and first in 26 years appears almost certain to start Dec. 2, freezing the free-agent market and threatening the start of spring training in February.

Negotiations have been taking place since last spring, and each side thinks the other has not made proposals that will lead toward an agreement replacing the five-year contract that expires at 11:59 p.m. EST on Dec. 1.

The luxury tax system that started with the 2003 season sunsets with the expiration of the labor contract, with the exception of completing accounting and payments for the 2021 tax year. Uncertainty over the 2022 season probably will cause high-spending clubs to delay reaching pricier player agreements.

Free agents can start signing with any team on the sixth day following the World Series, and this year’s group includes Carlos Correa, Corey Seager, Freddie Freeman, Trevor Story, Max Scherzer, Marcus Semien, Kris Bryant, Anthony Rizzo, Michael Conforto and Kevin Gausman.

MLB may attempt a signing freeze with the start of a lockout, or the marketplace might grind to a halt on its own, even more pronounced than the slowdowns of the 2017-18 and 2018-19 offseasons.

New York Yankees general manager Brian Cashman doesn’t know the parameters of what he has to spend.

“I have yet to have the conversation yet with what potentials, acknowledging that we have budget commitments already in play and depending on how the new collective bargaining agreement works out over the course of time, hopefully sooner than later,” he said.

Agents say they have received no guidance from the players’ association. Some have braced for a two-week scramble to sign next March or later, whenever a lockout ends.

This lack of pace in negotiations is similar to what occurred in 1989-90, when the agreement expired Dec. 31 and owners announced on Jan. 9 that a lockout would begin Feb. 15 absent an agreement. A deal was reached March 1 and opening day was delayed a week until April 9, causing 78 games to be postponed and rescheduled.

Teams have proposed eliminating salary arbitration and allowing players to become free agents in the offseason after they turn 29 1/2 rather than the six seasons of major league service in place since 1976. They have proposed a lower luxury threshold along with a payroll floor. Players have refused for decades to consider a payroll floor, feeling it would lead to a salary cap.

Concerned with “tanking” by rebuilding teams and a slide in spending on major league payrolls, players want changes in the current deal, which calls for payrolls to be taxed above $210 million (using average annual values plus benefits) and includes surtaxes that went into place for 2017. Management’s proposal called for the threshold to be dropped to $180 million, another factor that may gridlock many free agent negotiations.

 

[phillipmike]

You called it. I didn't think anyone was going to be able to take the Dodgers out after the DS.

Its amazing that the 4 teams in the championship series couldnt put together a decent rotation. Everyone was on fumes.

Really hurts because that was the Jays strength by the end of the year.

In 12 championship games, only 2 starters out of 24 went for a minimum of 6 inning. Poor performances by the pitching but also terrible deployments by some managers.

 

[GreytWun]

It doesn't matter if the prospects panned out, he was careless near the end of his tenure here. That being said, I liked AA but there's no doubt he made some pretty dumb moves likely knowing he was on his way out.

I disagree. He went all in to win and we had the best chance. You play to win I don’t want to watch status quo year after year. Some people just seem content to hope prospects pan out and be mediocre.