Blue Jays Discussion: The off-season is on. (Robbie Ray wins AL Cy Young)

[TML Dynasty]

wrong thread

 

[Canada4Gold]

Moreno 3 for 5 with a HR, and a double. OPS up to 1.366 now

Jimenez 2 walks a double and a HBP, he's at .856

 

[weems]

 

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

I really hope we don’t deal Moreno or Martinez. Everyone else is fair game. I think both are future all stars at important positions And will make impacts very soon. They are the type of players you need if you want to extend your contending window.

Moreno could be that all star catcher this organization has been searching for Pretty much its entire existence.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I really hope we don’t deal Moreno or Martinez. Everyone else is fair game. I think both are future all stars at important positions And will make impacts very soon. They are the type of players you need if you want to extend your contending window.

Moreno could be that all star catcher this organization has been searching for Pretty much its entire existence.

Moreno should be full on untouchable honestly. We have enough other prospect depth to tell teams to pound it if they come calling on Moreno.

 

[aingefan]

Moreno 3 for 5 with a HR, and a double. OPS up to 1.366 now

Jimenez 2 walks a double and a HBP, he's at .856

Jimenez was quietly good this year. Nice to see him continuing along nicely.

 

[justloveleafs]

We need some better relievers...

 

[bigbabybuda]

Moreno should be full on untouchable honestly. We have enough other prospect depth to tell teams to pound it if they come calling on Moreno.

Agreed and from what I've read in the past he is completely untouchable. I've heard that at the deadline the Jays could have acquired Jose Ramirez if they would have been willing to move Moreno and Atkins said no. If that's true and they won't move him for a player of that caliber at a position they were that thin at I can't see him going anywhere. He'll will he a top 10 prospect in all of baseball by start of next year.

 

[weems]

Some of these AFL stats are absolutely hilarious but heres some of the top prospects thru 5-9 games played

Gabriel Moreno .474BA , 1.366 OPS
Jeter Downs .333BA, 1.473 OPS
Spencer Torkelson .450BA, 1.157 OPS
Justin Foscue .267BA, .988 OPS
Marco Luciano .226BA, .804 OPS
Triston Casas .294BA, .792 OPS

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[BlueForever75]

Agreed and from what I've read in the past he is completely untouchable. I've heard that at the deadline the Jays could have acquired Jose Ramirez if they would have been willing to move Moreno and Atkins said no. If that's true and they won't move him for a player of that caliber at a position they were that thin at I can't see him going anywhere. He'll will he a top 10 prospect in all of baseball by start of next year.

If this is true and Atkins could have acquired Ramirez at deadline but balked at Moreno ask then that is really stupid. All-star 2 way third basemen are hard to come by, especially one that has been developed by another organization and is the real deal. Some will say that catchers are just as difficult if not more to hit on when it comes to drafting and developing them.

But the Jays issues this past season was not catching it was the albatross hole at 3rd base. Remember not all of your starting lineup needs to be an offensive juggernaut. Catcher is the one position teams can fill with a defensively sound player, that calls an average to above average game for their pitching staff. If they pitch in offensively that is fantastic, but its not the end of the world if catcher is your worst offensive position on game day if he provides intangibles in other parts of the games played.

I would rather have a combination of Jansen/Kirk/McGuire and Ramirez than a hope that Moreno's play translates to MLB level as a catcher. Not too many catchers pan out, and the ones we have are really not bad for what they provide.

Combined stats from our catchers in 2021: AVG .242, HR 20, RBI 62, OBP .315, OBP+ .730

 

[Maestro84]

I really hope we don’t deal Moreno or Martinez. Everyone else is fair game. I think both are future all stars at important positions And will make impacts very soon. They are the type of players you need if you want to extend your contending window.

Moreno could be that all star catcher this organization has been searching for Pretty much its entire existence.

Have the Jays ever had an elite catcher? I know Martin was an all-star and Borders won WSMVP in 92 but no one else comes to mind after that lol

Moreno seems to be the real deal though and he's 21 so it's not like we'll have to wait ages for him to be up, he has the potential to be the best catcher in baseball.

 

[dredeye]

If this is true and Atkins could have acquired Ramirez at deadline but balked at Moreno ask then that is really stupid. All-star 2 way third basemen are hard to come by, especially one that has been developed by another organization and is the real deal. Some will say that catchers are just as difficult if not more to hit on when it comes to drafting and developing them.

But the Jays issues this past season was not catching it was the albatross hole at 3rd base. Remember not all of your starting lineup needs to be an offensive juggernaut. Catcher is the one position teams can fill with a defensively sound player, that calls an average to above average game for their pitching staff. If they pitch in offensively that is fantastic, but its not the end of the world if catcher is your worst offensive position on game day if he provides intangibles in other parts of the games played.

I would rather have a combination of Jansen/Kirk/McGuire and Ramirez than a hope that Moreno's play translates to MLB level as a catcher. Not too many catchers pan out, and the ones we have are really not bad for what they provide.

Combined stats from our catchers in 2021: AVG .242, HR 20, RBI 62, OBP .315, OBP+ .730

But it’s also Ramirez for potentially only two years and Moreno for a very long time. There are other considerations

 

[Bjindaho]

If this is true and Atkins could have acquired Ramirez at deadline but balked at Moreno ask then that is really stupid. All-star 2 way third basemen are hard to come by, especially one that has been developed by another organization and is the real deal. Some will say that catchers are just as difficult if not more to hit on when it comes to drafting and developing them.

But the Jays issues this past season was not catching it was the albatross hole at 3rd base. Remember not all of your starting lineup needs to be an offensive juggernaut. Catcher is the one position teams can fill with a defensively sound player, that calls an average to above average game for their pitching staff. If they pitch in offensively that is fantastic, but its not the end of the world if catcher is your worst offensive position on game day if he provides intangibles in other parts of the games played.

I would rather have a combination of Jansen/Kirk/McGuire and Ramirez than a hope that Moreno's play translates to MLB level as a catcher. Not too many catchers pan out, and the ones we have are really not bad for what they provide.

Combined stats from our catchers in 2021: AVG .242, HR 20, RBI 62, OBP .315, OBP+ .730

Our best 3B was tied for 17th in WAR at his position despite less than half a season worth of AB. In terms of WAR/PA, he was the 2nd best 3B in baseball of anyone with 200+ PA.

Our best C was 20th in WAR with around half the PA of most of the players above him. In terms of WAR/PA, he would be 10th.

 

[Bjindaho]

I wouldn't have considered the trade at midseason. At the time, our catchers were among the worst in all of baseball (our 3B was better but not by much).

Now, it comes down to what you believe is the real Danny Jansen.

If the version that hit down the stretch is real, he's the best catcher in baseball.

If the whole is a basic sum of who he is (streaky), then you have a middling catcher.

Something in the middle and you have a quality starter who won't block a prospect like Moreno.

 

[Avilaj07]

If the Jays main target this off season is Ramirez, then I'd offer,

Kirk
Gurriel
Groshans

That's the most I'm willing to offer. Take it or leave it.

 

[BlueForever75]

If the Jays main target this off season is Ramirez, then I'd offer,

Kirk
Gurriel
Groshans

That's the most I'm willing to offer. Take it or leave it.

Personally I would do:

Moreno
Grichuk
Groshans

If there were a player I would keep it would be Gurriel. Eliminating Grichuk allows Jays to search or resign (Dickerson) the LH outfielder to help balance the lineup. Again I am good with Jansen/Kirk/McGuire catching tandem.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Moreno is athletic enough he also could be repositioned elsewhere if we decide we are deep enough at catching. His bat absolutely looks like it plays around the field. I just don't see any rational reason to trade a prospect of his caliber when we are chalk full of good/great other prospects.

 

[Woodman19]

Personally I would do:

Moreno
Grichuk
Groshans

If there were a player I would keep it would be Gurriel. Eliminating Grichuk allows Jays to search or resign (Dickerson) the LH outfielder to help balance the lineup. Again I am good with Jansen/Kirk/McGuire catching tandem.

Grichuk is a sunk cost and his $9 million isnt an issue for a team that can run a $180 million payroll.

Moreno along with Orelvis Martinez are my 2 untouchables in the system, that athleticism with production at that age in premium positions is very elite.

 

[Cor]

I really hope we don’t deal Moreno or Martinez. Everyone else is fair game. I think both are future all stars at important positions And will make impacts very soon. They are the type of players you need if you want to extend your contending window.

Moreno could be that all star catcher this organization has been searching for Pretty much its entire existence.

I thought I read after the deadline that teams were asking fro Moreno or Martinez, but they were non-starts for the Jays. We opted to trade Austin Martin to the Twins over either of those two.

 

[Woodman19]

I thought I read after the deadline that teams were asking fro Moreno or Martinez, but they were non-starts for the Jays. We opted to trade Austin Martin to the Twins over either of those two.

You don't trade a poor mans Wander Franco and rich mans Adley Rutschman if you want to be a terror for a while.

 

[Eyedea]

You don't trade a poor mans Wander Franco and rich mans Adley Rutschman if you want to be a terror for a while.

Orelvis is really good. Maybe he can become a Beltre type impact player (although I think his bat profile might be more similar to Devers). But Franco is Franco. This is A-Rod levels of talent.

I do agree that his value is increasingly reaching untouchable/exorbitant territory. The type of player coming back would need to be extremely impactful to pull an Orelvis/Moreno.

 

[Kurtz]

Grichuk is a sunk cost and his $9 million isnt an issue for a team that can run a $180 million payroll.

Moreno along with Orelvis Martinez are my 2 untouchables in the system, that athleticism with production at that age in premium positions is very elite.

I disagree that Grichuk is a sunk cost at $10.3 mil per for the next 2 years. He's not worth it to us as a right-handed utility OF, but to a team that needs a full-time CF he may be a decent option (we might have to pick up a few $$).

 

[Canada4Gold]

I honestly don't mind keeping Grichuk. If we really need that 10 million dollars to get something done then sure, but you need a 4th outfielder. I suspect we might sign a LH bat who can play a corner outfield spot that will get a large chunk of DH time(or if they're good defensively then play a corner spot and DH Teo/Gurriel), but you need someone who can play center, and I don't really think Palacios qualifies so you'll have to sign a bench defensive CF anyway. Might as well keep Grichuk, while it's not ideal to pay him 10 million a good team needs players of his level on the bench rather than scrubs. Tampa Bay for example whoever they put in the lineup always seems like an average or above average hitter(in a platoon at least), even their "backups". Plus when raises happen for the young players it'll be nice in 2 years when Ryu and Grichuk's combined 30 million come off the books rather than already having that money spent elsewhere to sign someone else long term. Of course you could trade Grichuk and spend that money short term with the same result. Keeping a bad contract because you're preventing yourself from doing something dumb with 10 million dollars for the next 2 years isn't smart but you need to properly budget for the future and tagging money for raises with short term money coming off the books.

 

[Bjindaho]

Jays denied the Mets permission to talk to Shapiro per Mets turn page after Bill Arnold passes on president post

They don't think he would have had any interest in hearing the Mets out any way.