Post-Game Talk: The Nightmare Before Christmas. Jets Lose 6-2

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meedle

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May 17, 2011
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you miss the point. I'm not saying Monty would have won the game. I'm saying the cost for Monty in losing is less than the cost for Pavs! There was no reason to put Pav's out there. Now he gets to be the guy. And as far as 24 games proving he's a winner, all I know is his numbers are better than Pav's this year. Smaller sample size bla bla bla, but his numbers CERTAINLY don't give any reason to keep him out of obvious start opportunities...

Ya i really don't get this either. I think alot of posters are right when they say the goaltending in this particular game wouldn't have made a difference although I have 0 clue why the reluctance to play Monty more. His numbers are far superior. Look at other coaches, Talbot in NY, Harding in Minny (Backstrom at the beginning of the year was suppose to be #1).

Pavelec is tied for 3rd basically in the number of starts and 2nd highest in the amount of losses. It's not like he is winning 2/3rds of his games. I just don't get it. I think Noel has rocks in his head. Just doesn't get it.
 

meedle

Registered User
May 17, 2011
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Winnipeg
Here is a xmas game. Which of these don't belong

1 Marc-Andre Fleury PIT 32 32 21 9 1 2.13 .920
2 Antti Niemi SJS 32 32 19 7 6 2.36 .912
3 Roberto Luongo VAN 32 32 16 9 6 2.24 .920
4 Mike Smith PHX 31 31 15 8 7 2.83 .914
5 Ondrej Pavelec WPG 31 31 11 16 4 2.94 .905
6 Carey Price MTL 30 30 17 11 2 2.10 .932
7 Tuukka Rask BOS 29 29 19 8 2 1.87 .936
8 Ben Bishop TBL 28 28 20 5 2 1.93 .935
9 Kari Lehtonen DAL 28 28 14 8 6 2.52 .920
10 Steve Mason PHI 28 27 14 9 4 2.35 .923
 

cbcwpg

Registered User
May 18, 2010
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So, read though the whole thread. Didn't see it answered so I'll ask it here:

Was there any reason given as to why Montoya did not get the start?

No reason stated, but there is a reason:

I'm not blaming Pavs for a single goal in this game and the Jets were going to lose even if Monty ( or even my avatar ) was in net given the way they played, but Noel doesn't believe the stats that say Pavs sucks when he plays with no rest, so Noel is going to keep hammering a square peg into a round hole until it fits.

Some coaches are like that. They have a method to their madness and they will never change from it. It's their way or no way and they will never admit they are wrong or will ever change to the situation they find themselves in. Noel has a system and he is doing whatever he can to make the Jets play it. The problem is the Jets aren't that team nor have the personal to play the way Noel wants. So instead of coming up with a system that works for the 20 guys you have ( because you can't just change all 20 guys at once ) Noel keeps hammering the square peg.

The question the Jets ( Chevy ) needs to ask is: Do we keep trying to make the players play in this system and replace the players we need to until we find 20 guys that will play our system ( which will mean years of mediocrity ) OR do we find a coach that will develop a system to suit the players we currently have so we have better success?

Daily :rant: (IMO)
 

Aavco Cup

"I can make you cry in this room"
Sep 5, 2013
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Something must have been said to spark that. Ladd doesn't act like that unprovoked.

If they call the penalty on Yak earlier in the game. Probably nothing happens.

If the score is close. Probably nothing happens.

Ladd was quoted saying it was all because of the Yak hit on Pav. Needed that kind of emotion earlier in the game focused the right way.
 

Joe Hallenback

Moderator
Mar 4, 2005
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Not sure why it is so hard to understand but Noel sent the exact same team out there last night from Vancouver because they actually played a really good road game that night and was giving them another shot to win.

Instead they laid an egg and took a beating from one of the worst teams going right now. They won't play for this coach and I doubt they play for the next one either. Fire Noel now or later it won't matter they need to move out the deadweight this summer and start promoting their young core
 

puck stoppa

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Jul 5, 2011
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Not sure why it is so hard to understand but Noel sent the exact same team out there last night from Vancouver because they actually played a really good road game that night and was giving them another shot to win.

Instead they laid an egg and took a beating from one of the worst teams going right now. They won't play for this coach and I doubt they play for the next one either. Fire Noel now or later it won't matter they need to move out the deadweight this summer and start promoting their young core

I agree with you, this is what needs to happen and slowly but surely it will. Which dead weight are you speaking of though? Do you mean not re-sign a few guys or trade a few, what's your thoughts?
 

Jumptheshark

Rebooting myself
Oct 12, 2003
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What's funny is oilers fans think they have a great team all of a sudden.

no we don't we have some huge holes that need to be filled and have a tough decision to make

the decision that we have to make

"To get the toughness and depth we need--which one of the kids do we trade".

So no, we do not think we have a great team. after a 7 game losing streak we are just happy we got a win.

We were just the better of two very bad team last night
 

Whileee

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May 29, 2010
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Jay Richardson - "I don't think it's a coaching issue because if you listen to coach Noel he says it! He knows what they need to do to win, the team just won't do it for him!" LOL...

Jay is right. Noel has the perfect coaching plan. :sarcasm:

"Manage the game" (brilliant).

"Check" (inspiring).

"Play the right way" (we are into rocket scientist territory).

I am not sure whether Noel is a brilliant tactician or not, but he gives no indication that he understands how to get a team to play an effective style consistently. I happen to think that he doesn't really understand the nuances of how to get a team to respond. Last night, every single Jet and Noel himself commented about how they wanted to play a cautious defensive game and check hard so that they didn't play to the Oilers' strengths. They kept referring to how the Oilers were going to come out with a lot of energy and fire, etc. It's almost as though they were scared of the Oilers. That was a team with awful D and a marginal goaltender. Instead of asking the Jets to play a cautious pluggers game, I think they should have gone aggressive, physical and fast. That is how the Jets win. When the Jets showed that they were playing too passive physically, he should have given them a dose of Thorburn-Wright-Peluso for a few shifts, and told those guys to play the body every time. Or maybe a shift with Kane-Wright-Peluso. The point is that when he saw that the Jets weren't playing with any fire, he has to do something as the coach to fire them up.

My main issue with Noel is that he has his team playing as though they are AHLers competing in the NHL. They are not stamping their identity on many games. Kane said it best - the Jets play well when they are aggressive and physical. That's what you do with a big, fast team that doesn't have so much finesse.

I can't stand Tortorella's personality, but I like how he has the Canucks playing an aggressive, pressuring style. I'm tired of watching the Jets collapse "into the lanes" and hope that they'll eventually get a rebound or pick off an errant pass.

:rant:

Okay, rant off.

At this point in the season I would look to move the UFAs for picks / prospects and take our lumps. Give Scheifele a boat-load of ice-time and try to develop Trouba a bit more. Pick up a nice player or two in the upcoming draft and come back next year with a coach that will get this team to play a fast, aggressive style. They need a coach with some maturity and confidence.
 

Joe Hallenback

Moderator
Mar 4, 2005
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I agree with you, this is what needs to happen and slowly but surely it will. Which dead weight are you speaking of though? Do you mean not re-sign a few guys or trade a few, what's your thoughts?

I think Buff has to go. As much as a game changer he is he can impact the team negatively.

I would move all the UFAs if I could at the deadline.
 

sdimedru

Registered User
Jan 19, 2007
298
2
Well that wasn't fun.

Not a lot of class shown by the Oilers fans around me going after my dad, who is well into his fifties by 20 something idiots. Thanks for that.

I liked how that idiot goon Gazdic goes after Stuart with Peluso and Thorburn on the ice. Nice job tool.

The refs are to blame COMPLETELY for letting one spiral out of control. Not saying the Jets deserved to win or anything obviously but the crap at the end was 100% on the refs. They were beyond brutal all game, that's what caused the basically line brawl at the end.

Bad game, not fun. I always try to make it enjoyable for away fans by joking with them and talking with them. Nothing of the sort in Edmonton. Just trying to goad me into a fight all game with crap. Real impressed. I never really liked Edmonton and although I enjoyed watching how badly their ownership continually screwed up. Now I am glad that they are stuck with the worst ownership and management team in the world. Keep selecting your Yakupov's and Nurse's, glad to see you fall flat every season you jokes. **** Edmonton.

Also, **** NOEL! Are you kidding me? Second night of a road back to back? Let's not add any fresh guys. Let's ride 3 lines. Oh let's FINALLY give O'Dell a chance with Jokinen-Seto then Frolik-Seto. What he had two really great pressure shifts with 4/5 shots on net by line. Let's bench him the rest of the game. 5v3? Oh let's put dumbdumb Kane out there. Let's put Pardy on the top pairing. ETC ETC. What a complete idiot. Team did not play well. Noel is not only not helping, he is (and has been for 3 years now) PUTTING PLAYERS IN A POSITION TO FAIL. He just does not understand how to get anything from his roster. He needs to go. And Scott mother ****ing Arniel better not be the replacement. That'll make us EDM 2.0 recycling the same failed crap because they are "loyal".

I get you're frustrated that the JETS lost, but I just wanted to comment.
Please don't take the treatment you received @ Rexall from Oil fans and swipe everyone with the same brush. As a season ticket holder I rarely see that type of behaviour. Of course there are always going to be the drunkards here or there who go way too far, and there are also opposing fans who provoke and ask for trouble.

Hopefully your next trip to Rexall is a better one (in the stands)!
Go Oil!

ps: I notice quite a bit of hate from JETS fans towards the city of Edmonton and Oiler fans, much I'm sure is sensationalized however it would be FUN for this to develop into a rivalry!

:handclap:
 

ps241

The Ballad of Ville Bobby
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Well, I gotta say I went into that was expecting to lose, hoping to win. Said it in the pre-game thread. That's just how this Jets team does it.

Yea to be clear most games I don't have a sense of how it is going to go before the puck is dropped but yesterday was different.....on the psychic scale I was ragging at a 9 out of 10 on being sure of myself. I would have put all my money down but I haven't and will never bet vCash against my team.

I dropped by the Oilers board to cheer them up and here is what I posted pre-game (warning ****** bag quoting himself moment coming up):

jets fan here

we suck on B2B's this season......Pavs getting both starts on the B2B is always a disaster!!

Streak busters here to get you guys rolling again....take it to the bank!

Prediction our goalie will out suck your goalie.....Bad Buff will make an appearance and give up some brutal odd man rushes....even though we play big teams tough like St Louis and LA and we can match their physicality we would far rather run around and play small hockey and get embarrassed by teams like the Habs.

We are not a terrible team but we are going to be terrible tonight.

Pond hockey win for Edmonton 6-3


Sucks to be right on this one. Hey I just think it was one of those nights.......Edmonton players got humiliated (I assume) by a fan throwing his jersey on the Ice and enough was enough.....they were due and we love playing small teams the way they like. Pens lost 5-0 last night to the Sens.....5hit happens to every team in the NHL.
 
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Aavco Cup

"I can make you cry in this room"
Sep 5, 2013
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Instead they laid an egg and took a beating from one of the worst teams going right now. They won't play for this coach and I doubt they play for the next one either. Fire Noel now or later it won't matter they need to move out the deadweight this summer and start promoting their young core

Well the Oilers did beat the Avalanche 8-2 and the Blue Jackets 7-0. It happens. Even Buffalo wins games.

I think this team wants to play for this coach and has seen the success that they can have. There has to be more to it. I suspect it's fatigue related. The decision making collectively was so different from the night before. The passing was absolutely brutal,either behind or ahead of the player or a pass the receiver couldn't possibly handle. This costs us defensively but also takes away opportunities at the other end of the ice. Fatigue issues might also help explain our tendancy to give up the late 3rd period goals.

Does the style we play contribute to this fatigue? Does the style we play require 4 lines? Could we play differently to mitigate fatigue? I don't know the answer but a new coach might be more successful if he has those answers.
 

Joe Hallenback

Moderator
Mar 4, 2005
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Well the Oilers did beat the Avalanche 8-2 and the Blue Jackets 7-0. It happens. Even Buffalo wins games.

I think this team wants to play for this coach and has seen the success that they can have. There has to be more to it. I suspect it's fatigue related. The decision making collectively was so different from the night before. The passing was absolutely brutal,either behind or ahead of the player or a pass the receiver couldn't possibly handle. This costs us defensively but also takes away opportunities at the other end of the ice. Fatigue issues might also help explain our tendancy to give up the late 3rd period goals.

Does the style we play contribute to this fatigue? Does the style we play require 4 lines? Could we play differently to mitigate fatigue? I don't know the answer but a new coach might be more successful if he has those answers.

These are pro players, not little kids. They should come out after losing a close game to the Nucks with some fire. Instead they look like a bunch of ninnies out for a Sunday skate.

At some point the players have to be responsible for there game. Maybe they won't play for Noel. Maybe then they should fire him. But does that mean if they don't like the next guy they should just lay down too?
 

JC Numminen

#goldrush
Feb 13, 2013
8,363
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Westman
Just woke up from a dream that the jets got 1st overall pick this year and picked some no name Player. Don't know what it means, just throwing it out there
 

ps241

The Ballad of Ville Bobby
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no we don't we have some huge holes that need to be filled and have a tough decision to make

the decision that we have to make

"To get the toughness and depth we need--which one of the kids do we trade".

So no, we do not think we have a great team. after a 7 game losing streak we are just happy we got a win.

We were just the better of two very bad team last night

I agree with the bolded. There is a difference between a fan base that feels like they are in jail and get a conjugal visit from a playboy bunny and has an amazing night and a fan base that thinks their team is great. I have lurked on the Oiler boards from time to time and to say the fan base feels they have a great team would be a gross overstatement.
 

Jet

Chibby!
Jul 20, 2004
34,229
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Well that wasn't fun.

Not a lot of class shown by the Oilers fans around me going after my dad, who is well into his fifties by 20 something idiots. Thanks for that.

I liked how that idiot goon Gazdic goes after Stuart with Peluso and Thorburn on the ice. Nice job tool.

The refs are to blame COMPLETELY for letting one spiral out of control. Not saying the Jets deserved to win or anything obviously but the crap at the end was 100% on the refs. They were beyond brutal all game, that's what caused the basically line brawl at the end.

Bad game, not fun. I always try to make it enjoyable for away fans by joking with them and talking with them. Nothing of the sort in Edmonton. Just trying to goad me into a fight all game with crap. Real impressed. I never really liked Edmonton and although I enjoyed watching how badly their ownership continually screwed up. Now I am glad that they are stuck with the worst ownership and management team in the world. Keep selecting your Yakupov's and Nurse's, glad to see you fall flat every season you jokes. **** Edmonton.

Also, **** NOEL! Are you kidding me? Second night of a road back to back? Let's not add any fresh guys. Let's ride 3 lines. Oh let's FINALLY give O'Dell a chance with Jokinen-Seto then Frolik-Seto. What he had two really great pressure shifts with 4/5 shots on net by line. Let's bench him the rest of the game. 5v3? Oh let's put dumbdumb Kane out there. Let's put Pardy on the top pairing. ETC ETC. What a complete idiot. Team did not play well. Noel is not only not helping, he is (and has been for 3 years now) PUTTING PLAYERS IN A POSITION TO FAIL. He just does not understand how to get anything from his roster. He needs to go. And Scott mother ****ing Arniel better not be the replacement. That'll make us EDM 2.0 recycling the same failed crap because they are "loyal".

Sorry you had such a **** time at the game. I just didn`t bother watching the third after I heard the score, you had to deal with all that crap. To spend money and get that experience totally sucks.
 

CorgisPer60

Barking at the net
Apr 15, 2012
21,626
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Please Understand
I get you're frustrated that the JETS lost, but I just wanted to comment.
Please don't take the treatment you received @ Rexall from Oil fans and swipe everyone with the same brush. As a season ticket holder I rarely see that type of behaviour. Of course there are always going to be the drunkards here or there who go way too far, and there are also opposing fans who provoke and ask for trouble.

Hopefully your next trip to Rexall is a better one (in the stands)!
Go Oil!

ps: I notice quite a bit of hate from JETS fans towards the city of Edmonton and Oiler fans, much I'm sure is sensationalized however it would be FUN for this to develop into a rivalry!

:handclap:

Most of thar hatred us cemented in the 80s in the old Smythe division. We have a lot of old guards in the fanbase. I would love to see a rivalry spring up, as Edmonton is a pretty easy city to hate.
 

Aavco Cup

"I can make you cry in this room"
Sep 5, 2013
37,630
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These are pro players, not little kids. They should come out after losing a close game to the Nucks with some fire. Instead they look like a bunch of ninnies out for a Sunday skate.

It's been obvious in our B2B record since the team returned. The question I'm asking is why? I don't believe they intentionally take nights off i don't buy that. The players want to win. The coach keeps saying we don't play the right way. It's most evident in these B2B games. Why is that? Is it somehow related to our style of play? I think the B2B record was pretty much league average the last year in Atlanta and has been anything but in Winnipeg.
 

Huffer

Registered User
Jul 16, 2010
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That had to be the worst game the Jets have played in 3 years IMO.

Nothing to do with it being the Oilers, just the straight up worst game they have played.
 

Vapour Trails

Registered User
Oct 10, 2011
263
50
Winnipeg, MB
The biggest issue with the team is defensive coverage, it's just plain bad. We need to look in the mirror and realize many of our defensemen are bad at defense. We get beat with 5 players staring at the puck all the time. The Oilers have talented offensive players that will make puck watchers look stupid.

Buff is back to being a liability rather than an asset. He is overwhelmingly the worst in plus/minus.

I think we also need to start giving Montoya more starts if for nothing more than to reduce the pain inflicted on Pavelec night after night.
 
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Hank Chinaski

Registered User
May 29, 2007
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That had to be the worst game the Jets have played in 3 years IMO.

Nothing to do with it being the Oilers, just the straight up worst game they have played.

It was pretty awful, but they were a crossbar away from knotting it at 3 in the third.

6-1 loss to WSH last season and 7-3 loss in MTL two seasons ago were worse IMO, and that's just off the top of my head.
 

Huffer

Registered User
Jul 16, 2010
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It was pretty awful, but they were a crossbar away from knotting it at 3 in the third.

6-1 loss to WSH last season and 7-3 loss in MTL two seasons ago were worse IMO, and that's just off the top of my head.

Even in those losses I think I can remember some semblance of actual hockey.

I don't think I saw any two Jets on the same page at any time last night.

No defensive pair communicated and worked together. Breakouts were non existent. The forwards looked like they didn't know where anyone was going. Defensive coverage was non existent as well.

It just looked like the most disorganized hockey I have seen for as long as I remember. Pretty disappointing.
 

Hank Chinaski

Registered User
May 29, 2007
21,203
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Northern MB
These are pro players, not little kids. They should come out after losing a close game to the Nucks with some fire. Instead they look like a bunch of ninnies out for a Sunday skate.

At some point the players have to be responsible for there game. Maybe they won't play for Noel. Maybe then they should fire him. But does that mean if they don't like the next guy they should just lay down too?

Are they also responsible for the overall dearth of talent on the roster? Effort and attitude may in fact have something to do with it, but I don't think this Jets team is underachieving.

They count on a relatively small pool of players to be on their game. When they're not on their game, the results are typically ugly.
 
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