Confirmed with Link: The new coach of the Philadelphia Flyers is John Tortorella

[Flyer lurker]

When Torts get hired,
he plays the vets,
rookies get buried
We see Seeler instead of kids for 55 games
Flyers are 25th best team in nhl
Flyers miss out on Berard.

Is it still Hexy's fault or will people finally admit Fletch is a boob?

 

[Embiid]

When Torts get hired,
he plays the vets,
rookies get buried
We see Seeler instead of kids for 55 games
Flyers are 25th best team in nhl
Flyers miss out on Berard.

Is it still Hexy's fault or will people finally admit Fletch is a boob?

Fletch is triple D boob for sure...

 

[JABEE]

Fletcher should just resign if he was bypassed to hire Torts

 

[Psuhockey]

Tortorella owes his success to an ancient Dave Andreychuk? Really?

And yeah, Lecavalier and Brad Richards were good players. Hall of Famers is pushing it.

And Torts started coaching Lecavalier and Richards when they were 20 years old. He's a huge part of their development into Cup winners. Pretending that they carried Torts to success while ignoring his contributions to making them successful players is ridiculous.

And Martin St. Louis was a nothing player until he he played under Torts, who oversaw his blossoming. So again, to give all the credit to the players while ignoring Torts' helping the players blossom is absurd.

You aren't going to have high-level success in the NHL without good players, that's essential. Vlad rightly mentions that above.

So to write-off a coach's achievements because he had a few good players means you're writing off every successful coach's achievements, and also ignoring the roles coaches played in developing and getting the most out of those players. (Do you dismiss Cooper's accomplishments because of Hedman, Stamkos, Kucherov, and Vasilevskiy?)

But all in all, over the course of his career, I stand by my assertion that Torts squeezed more success out of what he had to work with than almost any NHL coach in the last 20 years.

Yes coaching is largely inconsequential in hockey. It’s not quite as meaningless as the NBA but it’s close. It’s more likely to hurt than help. It’s on par with the whole development conversation people have over and over again when the vast majority of top players in the NHL are developed outside of the teams control. Torts just played his young players in Tampa probably because he had no other options at the time. Does Dave Hakstol get credit for developing Couturiers offensive game because that’s essentially a similar argument you are making.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You just can't help yourself, can you? This is why whenever you claim another poster said something, I know with certainty it's not what the poster actually said. Every. Single. Time. Also why it's impossible to have a reasonable discussion with you. I refuse to engage further once you pull that childlike behavior, which never takes long.

Everyone here saw you repeatedly guarantee Gordon would have an NHL HC job.

I can always pull the quotes, as I always can.

 

[FlyerNutter]

This is where I stray from Therien. I’m not in any way shocked he would be uncomfortable with some external oversight for the old Flyer guard. That’s exactly what this team needs more of, not less.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

It's hard to say who will make the hall of fame in a few years, because lots of the players he's coached are still in the NHL or just retired, but there's no doubt he's done well when he has talent. that's not an attack, but it's true.

In 2003 and 2004, the Stanley cup year, he had 4 of the top 3 point producers in the league....Led by St. Louis (hall of famer).

In NY he had Henrik, and their best season under Torts was when Henrik won the Veznia and finished 3rd in Hart voting.

In 2016-2017, the season you referenced earlier, the blue jackets best season, Bob won the veznia and finished 3rd in hart voting as well.

So, his success has certainly has been lead by talented players...and by the way it should. You can't expect a coach to do anything with a crappy roster.

Right, for a team to have success in the NHL it has to have some good players.

That's why it's pure silliness to dismiss a coach's achievements because he had good players. Do that, and you're dismissing every coach.

And it also means you are dismissing the coach's influence on those players' success.

 

[Rebels57]

Holy shit this tweet made my day

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Everyone here saw you repeatedly guarantee Gordon would have an NHL HC job.

I can always pull the quotes, as I always can.

I didn't "guarantee" jack. Go play your childish games with someone else.

 

[Tripod]

Me: got a break in doing work...."why are the Flyers trending?"

"Oh"

 

[VladDrag]

Right, for a team to have success in the NHL it has to have some good players.

That's why it's pure silliness to dismiss a coach's achievements because he had good players. Do that, and you're dismissing every coach.

And it also means you are dismissing the coach's influence on those players' success.

And the other side of that coin is true, too. A players success isn't only tied to a coach.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

If they did hire a consulting firm, if any of that is even true, then wouldn't that imply they are outing Chuck for someone else?

 

[deadhead]

Sounds like the try hards like him and those with actually talent hated him. Maybe because he played the try hards over the more talented forwards is why they loved him so much.

He will be here two years so I guess it doesn’t matter one way or another. If ASF’s article is even remotely correct, Fletcher is a dead man walking and the next GM will give Torts one more season before bringing in someone of their own.

No, the "entitled" hated him, the talented try hards loved him.
It's not like Johansen left CBJ and became a star, while Seth Jones blossomed under Torts (and regressed away from him).

The biggest problem in CBJ is that players don't want to live there, so it's hard to keep stars from pursuing free agency.
But Panarin had no problem playing for Trots. Atkinson became a star under Trots, and so on.

Ironically, Fletcher cleared out the players most likely to be an issue under Torts to placate AV, Ghost, Voracek, Myers, Patrick, NAK.
JVR is almost certainly gone once Torts reviews last year's film.
I can't think of too many other players who'll have a problem with Torts.

The biggest change we'll see is every forward will back check, and the forwards won't take off and leave the D-men on an island anymore. And Risto will learn to stop chasing hits or else.

The one sense I get with Torts is the players who buy in love him, for two reasons:
1) he's honest, brutally honest at times, but no sphinx (Hakstol) or BS (AV). You know exactly where you stand
2) he truly cares about his players as people.

The players who won't buy in will soon be gone, but not for scrubs but young players Trots identifies as willing to buy into his program.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

And the other side of that coin is true, too. A players success isn't only tied to a coach.

I agree.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

This will actually work for them if the fanbase is willing to spend money on nostalgia and being a low playoff seed. TV ratings are out the window, but they need to sell out that building or heads will start rolling.

I'm not interested in that at all and will continue to not give a single shit, but it serves their core audience. It also means they likely have no meaningful in-market growth opportunities.

Of the diehard Flyers (not hockey) fans, the percentage that is willing to put money behind intravenous nostalgia is probably an overwhelming majority at this point. Most of the others are already gone.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

When Torts get hired,
he plays the vets,
rookies get buried
We see Seeler instead of kids for 55 games
Flyers are 25th best team in nhl
Flyers miss out on Berard.

Is it still Hexy's fault or will people finally admit Fletch is a boob?

ummm this already happens, nothing to do with Torts..

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

This is where I stray from Therien. I’m not in any way shocked he would be uncomfortable with some external oversight for the old Flyer guard. That’s exactly what this team needs more of, not less.

Not that other leagues don’t have cronyism or risk averse issues when it comes to their hiring pools but they still pale in comparison to hockey/NHL. How good is an outside source when there’s really not a whole lot to go off but a limited group of guys who keep getting recycled every year? What resources do they really have to go off tangibly when it’s really hard to catch a break in this league even beyond just being an outsider?

Tortorella is championed as a good hire despite essentially producing bubble results in his last ten seasons of coaching. He won a championship two decades ago at this point in a completely different league from what is today both on & off the ice. I’m not even saying he’s bad but in other sports he might have been a guy fazed out by now with those type results. NHL teams fall in love with stature based off the past as well as being so scared of things going south they treat being in the middle as an accomplishment.

This is just a reality the people who occupy key spots on hockey operations have created. It’s hard for really anybody even outsiders to deem what’s truly good or not. The hockey people have created a monopoly for themselves unlike the other sports league.

 

[Flyerfan18]

Fixing "the problem" made the team worse.

Indicates it wasn't actually the problem.

Ya guess injuries to its best players didn’t factor in. Wrong again Beef.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

RE: Search firms

Bad data in, bad data out. They were told what the Flyers wanted and filled the shopping list. The call is still coming from inside the proverbial (Clarke) house. If your focus is on the firm rather than the team, the firm has done their job. They don’t matter here at all.

 

[renberg]

This is where I stray from Therien. I’m not in any way shocked he would be uncomfortable with some external oversight for the old Flyer guard. That’s exactly what this team needs more of, not less.

In today's socio-political climate, an employer had better have a firm that vets applicants. We don't know how deep the firm went into examining the fitness of a hockey coach for the job. However we don't want something like popped up in Florida with Q or Montgomery in Dallas happening here. If the old guard can't handle that, then they need to permanently go to the Shady Grove Rest Home.

 

[BernieParent]

I don't get it.

The evil genius whom everyone thinks is just another lackey.

 

[Tripod]

I wonder if Torts will wait until training camp to find out who our prospects are like you know who?

 

[Rebels57]

RE: Search firms

Bad data in, bad data out. They were told what the Flyers wanted and filled the shopping list. The call is still coming from inside the proverbial (Clarke) house. If your focus is on the firm rather than the team, the firm has done their job. They don’t matter here at all.

If anything I am guessing the organization is aware of the complaints about the senior advisors and this consulting firm shit is just more PR to throw cold water on that noise.

What a dysfunctional clusterf***.

I wonder if Torts will wait until training camp to find out who our prospects are like you know who?

The f***ing arrogance of AV - Unreal

 

[bauer]

Torts isn't a bad coach, he's decent enough. but that's the problem. he'll make sure the Flyers are just good enough to squeak in to the playoffs. or miss it just enough to keep us far away from a top 5 draft pick which is so desperately needed to fully rebuild.

it blows my mind that the FO doesn't understand this, Charlie literally spelled it out to them at the year end press conference. you can't win without elite talent. and you either draft it (needing multiple top 5 picks) or you acquire it by UFA (of which they have no cap space). they clearly have no interest in tanking, and with no cap space it makes you think what the hell to they hope to achieve? like Jojo said above, i think it's all about them desperately wanting to get into the playoffs again just to get that added revenue. they don't care about winning any cup. they don't want to put in the effort. it's like Weekend at Bernie's with the Flyers FO. trying desperately to prop up a dead corpse over and over again.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

If they did hire a consulting firm, if any of that is even true, then wouldn't that imply they are outing Chuck for someone else?

The consulting element is becoming pretty common, not that I’m a fan. I’d be pissed if I were the GM & I had some outside suits butting in.

I’m sure Fletcher wasn’t happy. But I’m also sure it’s something Scott would have pulled regardless of the GM. It’s a very Comcast thing to do.

That said, you certainly get the feeling that the front office is in a tenuous situation.