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Confirmed with Link: The new coach of the Philadelphia Flyers is John Tortorella

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TheKingPin said:
It was pretty annoying to have to settle for JVR over Panarin! Imagine adding Fox to this team.

I was referring to the Patrick draft. To me, if we had to hit that draft it is because we just tanked a year. We lucked in to a nice draft spot. That should have been a cherry on the top.

Basically, they would be saying you have to rely on hitting a lottery pick to be a good or even just a playoff team.

The team looks a lot worse now with the loss of some major assets and not enough to show for it.
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The maddening part is that we have absolutely nothing to show for a #2OA pick. It's like it never happened.

If Ellis can come back healthy and offer multiple years of high end hockey, then ok. We got something out of it. Otherwise, meh. Patrick is basically our Yakupov.

I think they were saying more that a team like the Flyers don't get that opportunity very often, so it's important to get it right when they do.
 
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Pinning the downfall of the franchise on Patrick is convenient. They only had the chance to draft him because of a huge stroke of luck. The Rangers, while flawed, drafted a similar player 2nd overall and found a way to be competitive. Weird shit happens when you draft 17 and 18 year olds. Get over it.
 
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I think you guys are nuts if you think they’re hiring someone who wouldn’t be a buzzworthy name. They may screw it up, but when the Flyers feel they need to go big, that’s what they do. I don’t think Montgomery is that guy even though I would be perfectly happy with him. He would be a good coach if you supposedly can’t figure out what you are.
 
All depends on who wins the internal battle - I suspect Fletcher is lobbying for a rebuild, Holmgren/Clarke to try and compete next year.
Scott would like to compete, but is probably chastened by last year's meltdown.

Also comes down to whether they think they call sell a "name HC" and quick reload to the fans, or whether at this point committing to a rebuild might actually garner more fan support than "we won't get fooled again."

The only name HC who might inspire fan confidence would be Trotz, that was a big selling point with AV, taking two different teams to the SC Finals. Torts doesn't have that sort of panache, and forget the rest. So if they think they can't land Trotz (who's dragging the process out) they may decide that it's easier to sell a rebuild than a second tier HC producing a miracle turnaround.
 
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deadhead said:
All depends on who wins the internal battle - I suspect Fletcher is lobbying for a rebuild, Holmgren/Clarke to try and compete next year.
Scott would like to compete, but is probably chastened by last year's meltdown.

Also comes down to whether they think they call sell a "name HC" and quick reload to the fans, or whether at this point committing to a rebuild might actually garner more fan support than "we won't get fooled again."

The only name HC who might inspire fan confidence would be Trotz, that was a big selling point with AV, taking two different teams to the SC Finals. Torts doesn't have that sort of panache, and forget the rest. So if they think they can't land Trotz (who's dragging the process out) they may decide that it's easier to sell a rebuild than a second tier HC producing a miracle turnaround.
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You’re still harping on this eh?

Even IF we were to accept this as true, that Fletcher is calling for a full rebuild, why would Clarke and Homer bother keeping him around? He’d be out just like Hextall. Because let’s be honest, they have Scott’s ears.
The only explanation would be that they appreciate he’s a total pathetic pushover, a cuck if you will, who’s number one priority is to the make the other guy happy first and foremost. If he’s at all being vocal about a rebuild, it’s all for show and he knows Clarke and Homer’s win now mandate will always win out in the end.

Is this is a sign of a healthily run organization?
 
Fletcher has been pushing his agenda around the edges, bringing in Briere, lobbying for more resources for analytics, scouting and development. You think Holmgren or Clarke even know what analytics are?

But as long as Scott doesn't end the discussion, there's probably an argument going on concerning the best path forward, and in that context, Fletcher and Flahr can lobby for a rebuild - once Scott makes the decision, they'll have no choice but to get on board.

Fletcher has said they need top talent under 25 - now how do you get that talent? Not by bringing in a Dino HC, JG and trading assets for veteran patches - so he's been implying the need for a rebuild without directly contradicting what his boss has said.

This is classic political infighting in organizations, you don't directly confront your opponents, you try to frame the conversation so eventually everyone accepts your position. Hextall's mistake was to cut out people with influence instead of co-opting them.
 
She didn't groom him, Fletcher could have marginalized him if he didn't want Briere around.
The fact that he's given him a prominent role suggests he sees him as a "Flyer counterweight" to Holmgren and Clarke.
Briere isn't stuck in the last century.
 
deadhead said:
She didn't groom him, Fletcher could have marginalized him if he didn't want Briere around.
The fact that he's given him a prominent role suggests he sees him as a "Flyer counterweight" to Holmgren and Clarke.
Briere isn't stuck in the last century.
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She literally did groom him. She sent him to Wharton to learn the trade.

So General Manager, President, and Governor aren’t prominent roles but Assistant to the Regional Manager is?

Then you have that Fletcher could box out someone like Briere if he wanted to but cowers at the feet of every other person he interacts with.

You live in fantasy land with this stuff.
 
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FLYguy3911 said:
Pinning the downfall of the franchise on Patrick is convenient. They only had the chance to draft him because of a huge stroke of luck. The Rangers, while flawed, drafted a similar player 2nd overall and found a way to be competitive. Weird shit happens when you draft 17 and 18 year olds. Get over it.
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I don't think they were pinning the "downfall" on Patrick. Just that it's a setback.
 
Hollywood Cannon said:
She literally did groom him. She sent him to Wharton to learn the trade.

So General Manager, President, and Governor aren’t prominent roles but Assistant to the Regional Manager is?

Then you have that Fletcher could box out someone like Briere if he wanted to but cowers at the feet of every other person he interacts with.

You live in fantasy land with this stuff.
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It's easy to box people out, just don't include them in anything of importance - ask anyone who's worked for any organization - if you're not invited to lunch with the right people, or somehow don't end up in client meetings, etc., your title is irrelevant.

Fletcher has been grooming Briere, that's active support, not passive acquiescence.

All you have to do is watch the press conferences and statements the last six months to see an organization where there is obvious dissension about what direction to pursue going forward. Fletcher is the only one who consistently talks about adding young talent.
 
deadhead said:
It's easy to box people out, just don't include them in anything of importance - ask anyone who's worked for any organization - if you're not invited to lunch with the right people, or somehow don't end up in client meetings, etc., your title is irrelevant.

Fletcher has been grooming Briere, that's active support, not passive acquiescence.

All you have to do is watch the press conferences and statements the last six months to see an organization where there is obvious dissension about what direction to pursue going forward. Fletcher is the only one who consistently talks about adding young talent.
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He’s the only friggin one that talks. No shit he’s the only one consistently talking about adding young talent. That doesn’t mean he’s going to go out and do it. He has a career to show that he’s going to do otherwise. Watch what I do and not what I say.

For someone that likes to throw quotes in the trash because GM speak means nothing you sure like to hold onto this one.
 
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If you pick the right player at #5, he should be in the NHL in 2023-24.
If he's not, you may have screwed up.
I think it's a high probability of being one of the two RHDs.

Provorov - Nemec
Sanheim - Risto
Zamula/Hogberg/Andrae - Attard

Isn't a bad group of young D-men.
Risto won't be that hard to move in two years if they decide to, 3x5, retain $1M a year or take on a veteran contract (no big deal if they're rebuilding), 3x4 for a physical RHD is an easy sell to a lot of teams.

Ellis is the bigger issue, if healthy the perfect mentor to this group, if not, can you LITR him?
 
FLYguy3911 said:
A setback that gets brought up every time. It's loser shit. It wasn't even the worst pick in that draft imo.
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It was just one of several disastrous moves made by the organization that has it where it is today. What makes it so brutal is that Hextall and his boys didn't do their homework on NP's health situation. There's no excuse for that. Properly checking out the health of a draft prospect is job one. IDK, maybe the Flyers FO thought that Jersey was going to take Patrick and that they would get Hirschier or someone else.
 
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renberg said:
It was just one of several disastrous moves made by the organization that has it where it is today. What makes it so brutal is that Hextall and his boys didn't do their homework on NP's health situation. There's no excuse for that. Properly checking out the health of a draft prospect is job one. IDK, maybe the Flyers FO thought that Jersey was going to take Patrick and that they would get Hirschier or someone else.
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To be fair, I don't remember any mention of migraines or concussions before the draft.
And I think the migraines seem to be more of a post-concussion syndrome. It's becoming obvoius that he's vulnerable to concussions, he's now had what, a half dozen "upper body injuries"
Patrick is Lindros without the great seasons.
 
Path dependence.

If you draft Heiskanen, you also take Frost at #27, but you address the center position instead of signing JVR.
And in a year or two, Heiskanen makes Provorov/Sanheim expendable in a trade to upgrade the top six forwards or to obtain a young RHD.
 
deadhead said:
To be fair, I don't remember any mention of migraines or concussions before the draft.
And I think the migraines seem to be more of a post-concussion syndrome. It's becoming obvoius that he's vulnerable to concussions, he's now had what, a half dozen "upper body injuries"
Patrick is Lindros without the great seasons.
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I remember Fletcher saying Patrick's migraine history goes back to major junior and before that. And also that there's a family history of migraines.

Seems like something teams should have been aware of, in addition to his two sports hernias. Not to mention some scouts questioned Patrick's character in McCagg's article in April of 2017, where McCagg ranked Makar ahead of Patrick.

There were red flags.
 
Obviously the Rangers have had external success (Panarin, Fox) but it is interesting to see that they flopped on four consecutive top 10 picks, including a 1st and 2nd overall, and it didn't really set them back.

Patrick was a tough miss, and his red flags were absolutely known prior to drafting him, but he is really only the tip of the iceberg.
 
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deadhead said:
Path dependence.

If you draft Heiskanen, you also take Frost at #27, but you address the center position instead of signing JVR.
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If who you draft at 2 or 27 is positional dependent, you’re already a poorly fun franchise. No one is smart enough to keep passing up talent for fit early in drafts and come out ahead in the long run.
 
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