Confirmed with Link: The new coach of the Philadelphia Flyers is John Tortorella

[freakydallas13]

Please read:







“Our guys aren’t keen on him,” said the scout of another team slated to pick in the top ten. “I would be really surprised if we took Nolan Patrick. Unless it’s a no brainer. If we’re at 4 or 5…then you’ve gotta do it. “If (club management) hear a peep on a player we’re not taking him…and they’ve heard some things that concern them.”

Also:

So your response to my call for people saying his health concerns dropped his ranking massively pre-draft is to post a bunch of posts questioning his character and and a quote saying it's still a no-brainer to take him at 4 or 5 overall?

You sure showed me.

 

[Bigkarl]

If you pick the right player at #5, he should be in the NHL in 2023-24.
If he's not, you may have screwed up.
I think it's a high probability of being one of the two RHDs.

Provorov - Nemec
Sanheim - Risto
Zamula/Hogberg/Andrae - Attard

Isn't a bad group of young D-men.
Risto won't be that hard to move in two years if they decide to, 3x5, retain $1M a year or take on a veteran contract (no big deal if they're rebuilding), 3x4 for a physical RHD is an easy sell to a lot of teams.

Ellis is the bigger issue, if healthy the perfect mentor to this group, if not, can you LITR him?

Solid management to already be planning on how to get rid of a contract with retention before it’s even starts.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

So your response to my call for people saying his health concerns dropped his ranking massively pre-draft is to post a bunch of posts questioning his character and and a quote saying it's still a no-brainer to take him at 4 or 5 overall?

You sure showed me.

Did you not read the tweet I included from Kournianos, who called Patrick's injuries "disconcerting"?

"Disconcerting" is more than "a slight concern."

You want more that's only focused on the injuries rather than the number of other very real question marks that NHL scouts were citing more than 2 months before the draft?

Fine. Here: Is Nolan Patrick's Injury History a Long-Term Concern?

"While Patrick’s list of accomplishments quite obviously speaks for itself, an issue often lost in the conversation is the vast number of injuries which Patrick has compiled throughout his short hockey career. In fact, upon closer inspection, Patrick’s injury history is more daunting and, arguably, concerning than previously imagined."


You can keep trying to dismiss the red flags that existed pre-draft in your effort to pretend there was no other reasonable option at #2, but that's not the reality.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

And here's an article from just a few days before the 2017 draft, saying:

A little birdie tells me that the Flyers are “extremely concerned” about Patrick’s injury history and really want Nico to fall to them at number two. No one knows what the Devils are going to do, but recent reports have them taking Nico. That possibility might have led to the loosely-sourced report that the Flyers could trade back and send the number two pick to Vegas in exchange for what could perhaps be a slew of draft picks Vegas obtains through expansion draft agreements to avoid certain unprotected players. There also seems to be some late conjecture that the Devils could trade back and take a defenseman, or just take one outright, leaving the Flyers to choose between Nolan or Nico (I think they’d take Nico).

The Flyers Might Be Concerned About Nolan Patrick

It has been reported that the Devils, those bastards, are leaning towards taking Nico Hischier with the number one overall pick tonight. I think most Flyers fans, myself included, have come around on wanting Nico, the faster, more skilled, scoring center, to fall to the Flyers over Nolan...

www.crossingbroad.com

 

[captainpaxil]

A big part of Patrick going so high was his build and NHL readiness.looking back he may have been better served not playing in the NHL at 18. I think a big part of his problems were limiting his mobility that opened him up to get his bell rung. He's still a young guy and I wouldn't be surprised to see him carve out a career though any hopes of him being the top center he was drafted to be have faded.
It's part of the risk of building through the draft that not everyone works out and even a concensus pick can fall short of Thier potential

 

[freakydallas13]

Did you not read the tweet I included from Kournianos, who called Patrick's injuries "disconcerting"?

"Disconcerting" is more than "a slight concern."

You want more that's only focused on the injuries rather than the number of other very real question marks that NHL scouts were citing more than 2 months before the draft?

Fine. Here: Is Nolan Patrick's Injury History a Long-Term Concern?

"While Patrick’s list of accomplishments quite obviously speaks for itself, an issue often lost in the conversation is the vast number of injuries which Patrick has compiled throughout his short hockey career. In fact, upon closer inspection, Patrick’s injury history is more daunting and, arguably, concerning than previously imagined."


You can keep trying to dismiss the red flags that existed pre-draft in your effort to pretend there was no other reasonable option at #2, but that's not the reality.

No one is saying he didn't have injury concerns, everyone knew and acknowledged that. What I am saying is that no single source said the aforementioned injury concerns dropped him dramatically in the ranking pre-draft. Here are some quotes from the articles you linked:

The second even acknowledges the Flyers had concerns about his injuries, flying against your crusade to the contrary. Almost like everyone knew about his injury concerns but still rated him as a top prospect, and not that the Flyers..."didn't do their homework on his injury history" like revisionists like to claim.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

No one is saying he didn't have injury concerns, everyone knew and acknowledged that. What I am saying is that no single source said the aforementioned injury concerns dropped him dramatically in the ranking pre-draft. Here is some quotes from the articles you linked:

View attachment 554267

View attachment 554268

The second even acknowledges the Flyers had concerns about his injuries, flying against your crusade to the contrary. Almost like everyone knew about his injury concerns but still rated him as a top prospect, and not that the Flyers..."didn't do their homework on his injury history" like revisionists like to claim.

LOL at my alleged "crusade to the contrary." I don't know for sure what the Flyers knew or didn't know, particularly with regard to his migraine history.

What I do know is that there was more than merely "slight concern" about Patrick's injury history in NHL circles prior to the draft.

And I know for sure that you are trying to paint Nolan Patrick as an unquestioned top 2 pick, and that is false.

There were many questions about him before the draft, injuries and otherwise.

McCagg dropped him out of his top 2.

His article quotes an NHL scout who said his team didn't like him and they wouldn't consider him until 4 or 5.

And in the crossingbroad article there's even speculation that the Devils would take a defenseman first overall, knocking Patrick out of the top 2.

Then of course there have been multiple reports since the draft that the Flyers' scouts preferred Makar and Heiskanen.

Nolan Patrick was NOT a slam dunk top 2 pick. That much is clear.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Also, it seems likely that much of the hockey world was aware of Patrick's headache issues. So maybe the Flyers ignored it at their own peril.

Nolan does have a history of migraines, going back to when he was younger — he had some in minor hockey, in junior hockey. There's a family history, as well. I think at this point, he feels relieved to know what it is. It's been periodic migraines and cluster headaches throughout the summer and I think he was concerned and we were concerned. The doctor feels that there's a regimen you can put him on and with medication, we can control the situation and we're hopeful.

Nolan Patrick will miss season opener after being diagnosed with migraine disorder

Updated: 7:32 p.m. NEW YORK — Nolan Patrick will miss the Flyers’ Oct. 4 season opener after being diagnosed with a migraine disorder. The 21-year-old center had been doing solo work on the ice but hadn’t participated in training camp practices or played in any of the team’s preseason games. He...

www.nbcsports.com

 

[Magua]

This is sad.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

This is all so deeply weird. I can't think of a better judge of consensus that McKenzie's rankings, where he never dropped below 2. Big boards from 2017 are still readily available. None of the major sources had anyone other than Patrick and Hischier in the Top 2. Here's a breakdown of the consolidated rankings, including timelined versions during the season:

2017 Final Consolidated Industry Draft Rankings

With only hours to go before the draft gets underway, let's take one f...

canucksarmy.com

Consensus in the draft case does not mean unanimous. You don't get that kind of agreement across hundreds of NHL scouts unless you're talking McDavid or Crosby level prospects. I'm not even positive that last bit holds true, but I'm willing to accept it.

I had forgotten just how many people still had Patrick #1 in that draft by the time it rolled around. I think my memory conflated the predictions of who NJ would take with what people had on their boards.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

@Striiker

Can we get those old posts again?

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's important to excoriate Hextall as deeply as possible to try and shift Fletcher's blame for where he took the team onto the previous guy. As if taking someone else solves the other massive management issues and errors.

 

[PDX Flyer]

@Striiker

Can we get those old posts again?

Was waiting for this. It truly is amazing

 

[freakydallas13]

This is all so deeply weird. I can't think of a better judge of consensus that McKenzie's rankings, where he never dropped below 2. Big boards from 2017 are still readily available. None of the major sources had anyone other than Patrick and Hischier in the Top 2. Here's a breakdown of the consolidated rankings, including timelined versions during the season:

2017 Final Consolidated Industry Draft Rankings

With only hours to go before the draft gets underway, let's take one f...

canucksarmy.com

Consensus in the draft case does not mean unanimous. You don't get that kind of agreement across hundreds of NHL scouts unless you're talking McDavid or Crosby level prospects. I'm not even positive that last bit holds true, but I'm willing to accept it.

I had forgotten just how many people still had Patrick #1 in that draft by the time it rolled around. I think my memory conflated the predictions of who NJ would take with what people had on their boards.

No, you see every scouting agency rated Patrick in the top 2. But MacCagg knew Patrick would bust because of his injury history, booting him allllllllll the way down to 4th or 5th overall (a "no brainer" at 4th or 5th overall I might add).

The proof is in the pudding, McCagg wouldn't have touched Nolan "Bust" Patrick at 2nd overall. Only at the infinitely safer spot of "no brainer" 4th overall do you draft this Uber bust.

 

[Magua]

When you need to use infamous blowhard, Grant McCagg, to prove a point, you don’t have a point. Guy might be the worst public scout in the biz.

Hey, look, I have a Flyers draft scoop from Grant too!

 

[BrindamoursNose]

This really is absurdly dumb that we're still trying to pretend Patrick wasn't a consensus Top 2 pick that year

Bob Clarke commissioned a hatchet-job on Hextall to cover his own a** - that's all this Makar stuff is about. Trying to say Hextall had a bare-knuckle boxing match with his whole Scout team for the right to draft Patrick is just dumb.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Grant McCagg hates the consensus #1-2 pretty much every year. McDavid is probably about the only one he didn’t argue over the years. He slagged Auston Matthews & Jack Hughes that entire year. He really didn’t think there was much separation between Matthews & Michael McLeod who had #2-3 in his final rankings respectively.

So just because the broken clock theory works in years like 2017 (possibly even this upcoming draft) where it’s pretty universally agreed upon it’s an average or worse year at the top even at the time.

 

[Larry44]

A big part of Patrick going so high was his build and NHL readiness.looking back he may have been better served not playing in the NHL at 18. I think a big part of his problems were limiting his mobility that opened him up to get his bell rung. He's still a young guy and I wouldn't be surprised to see him carve out a career though any hopes of him being the top center he was drafted to be have faded.
It's part of the risk of building through the draft that not everyone works out and even a concensus pick can fall short of Thier potential

Also, Patrick’s dad was a big strong player and his uncle James played 20 years. He had concussions in his first 3 years as a Flyer, which didn’t help when later Gabriel pasted him then he took Clusterbuck’s slapper in the head. It’s really too bad.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

It’s probably even worse that McCagg still tries to downplay Matthews even now. Forget before he ever stepped foot on an NHL rink surface. Even after six seasons of data including these last two in that peak window of 22-26 year old Matthews has pretty proven that only a generational talent in McDavid is keeping him being the best player in hockey right now.

Not only is he head & shoulders better than his draft class but he might go down as the best amongst his decade behind McDavid too.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Isn't this about the next coach, as in a coach we can't trust Chuck to make the right decision on?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

@Striiker

Can we get those old posts again?

Aren’t you a moderator, & you’re asking for a violation of board rules? I can’t see or respond to Striiker’s posts, & he’s not supposed to be able to see mine or post about mine due to mutual “shadow ban.” Pretty low to encourage posting I can’t respond to & to enforce the rules unequally. If I did it I’d get a violation. Striker meanwhile apparently gets encouraged.

Either enforce it both ways or remove it from my account like you apparently removed it from your buddy’s so I can at least see what he’s saying & respond.

 

[Magua]

 

[TB87]

Ze shoplifter!

 

[Kelmitchell2]

Hopefully this is true. Most likely any player that he Flyers draft at 5 will not be an impact player this coming season. Maybe they make the opening night roster; maybe not.
Players need to be moved around to fill holes at different positions in the organization. Move a defenseman for a forward; move a forward for a defenseman. Perhaps drafting a defenseman makes a surplus there that eases moving one out from the active roster. Maybe drafting a forward gives that position more of a surplus that allows a forward on the roster to be moved. Whatever. Fluidity matters.
What we don't need to see is for TPTB to fixate on acquiring one single player in a trade to the point that they become willing to waste assets in order to do that. If the Flyers can shuffle things so that acquiring Gaudreau is a feasible move then do it. If it costs too much, move on to Kadri, Forsberg or no one. Just don't do a Ghostisbehere/Ristolainen shuffle again. That was a disaster in many ways the will cost the organization for years to come.

I really think nemec could start in the nhl, the kids talented and very smart, I'm very high on nemec, Cooley would be awesome as well, but I don't think he's nhl ready yet

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Aren’t you a moderator, & you’re asking for a violation of board rules? I can’t see or respond to Striiker’s posts, & he’s not supposed to be able to see mine or post about mine due to mutual “shadow ban.” Pretty low to encourage posting I can’t respond to & to enforce the rules unequally. If I did it I’d get a violation. Striker meanwhile apparently gets encouraged.

Either enforce it both ways or remove it from my account like you apparently removed it from your buddy’s so I can at least see what he’s saying & respond.

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